MTMTE 12 (Spoilers from the start)

Post by **Best First** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:23 pm

OK, straight in, i think this issue is going to annoy some people, because once again we have a number of characters at the brink of death who manage to be saved.

Roberts does make a point this issue of saying how hard it is to kill a TF but still, i think the trand is a bit much, issue by issue.

BUT

i was relieved to not lose any of these guys and some of the other stuff that unfolds in this issue, especially the 'zero point' was just wow. I think, given Cyclonus's little speech, Whirl's attempt to off him fisrt is kind of fair enough, but the fact he was happy for others to be caught in the crossdire... pretty much iredeemable.

Desperate to know who the mystery voice is.

And Swerve's fate - although Rodimus's statement seems to imply that none of the Lost Light died (i think?).

Generally though i still think this is the best comic ever ever ever.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:39 pm

Best First wrote: i was relieved to not lose any of these guys and some of the other stuff that unfolds in this issue, especially the 'zero point' was just wow. I think, given Cyclonus's little speech, Whirl's attempt to off him fisrt is kind of fair enough, but the fact he was happy for others to be caught in the crossdire... pretty much iredeemable.

Desperate to know who the mystery voice is.

And Swerve's fate - although Rodimus's statement seems to imply that none of the Lost Light died (i think?).

Generally though i still think this is the best comic ever ever ever.

I'm possibly biased but I think this is one of the most exciting and brave comics on the market. I'm glad there were no obvious casualties here, but there are some to come. You can feel it building (+ Overlord).

Re - Mystery Voice -There's only 2 people that know about Overlord's presence on the ship? Red Alert and Rung...although didn't some CCTV capture Red Alert putting something in Rung's hand in an earlier issue?

For me, my favourite part was some explanation into Rewind and Chromedome's relationship. I get the impression people will kick off and complain that they are gay, but they are simply the most important people in the world to each other. I think it's beautiful.

5* I will reread this several times today and I am desperate for the next issue. Chromedome is about to do something VERY stupid.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:51 pm

It's brilliant and difficult and gets you right there.

Tailgate single-handedly dragging the much bigger Cyclonus to the medibay because literally no one else gives a **** that he's bleeding to death.

Cyclonus calling Tailgate 'pathetic', then seemingly having an epiphany that he doesn't like being completely unloved and alone and that the little guy is the only person who's given him a chance.

Chromedome - oh jeezus - being incredibly grateful to Whirr and wishing Cyclonus dead, when it was the former who nearly killed his friend and the latter who saved his life. The irony is painful.

Whirl being maybe just maybe on the verge of starting to mend his ways, then being shot down and basically resolving to be an absolute unforgivable bastard after all.

And so much else.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:37 am

Roberts is a writer. By that, I mean he is one of those very rare talents that are part of the comic industry, but could skillfully pull out any writing gig. James could write about a bunch of trees in a forest. He could right about pink unicorns playing banjos. He could write about a room full of quantum physicists. And make all those things worth reading. We are just very fortunate that the dude has major love for our Transformers.

Another great issue. The niggle of no one staying dead doesn't bother me too much, but I can see where people might have a problem with it.

By far the best element of the story is the underserved gratitude given to Whirl by Chromedome. As Jack says above, the irony! Here, Chromedome is hoping Cyclonus dies, and he's the very guy who saved Rewind's life, and he's actually hugging Whirl for almost killing his pal. Again, great writing from Roberts.

A close second is Cyclonus' growing relationship with Tailgate. Love that dynamic. Was a bit surprised though to see Cyclonus so willing to kill his fellow Decepticons. Here I thought the guy was only along for the ride because he too was interested in finding the Knights of Cybertron. Seems like he really has become more Autobot now though than Decepticon. And it seems Whirl is actually more Decepticon at spark than Cyclonus. Will be interesting to see where this all goes.

Thirdly, I give kudos to James for preserving the badassery of Magnus on the battlefield. Having Tailgate make that comment about him knowing how to really fight is crucial IMO to preserving his reputation as one of the Autobot's greatest warriors, despite his seemingly by-the-book one-dimensional persona.

Didn't like to see the Seacons get taken out. In fact, it always bothers me to see any members of Combiner teams taken out because that pretty much ensures no Combiner (especially when Barber killed of the Constructicons, one of the worst decisions he made as a writer, IMO).

Another great issue.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:24 am

Yaya wrote:Was a bit surprised though to see Cyclonus so willing to kill his fellow Decepticons.

You *WERE* trying to make a joke by that, right? It's not just that you haven't been reading the last 7 years of comics from IDW?

He can't have "Fellow Decepticons" if the first time he set foot upon Cybertron since before Decepticons existed as a concept, was in 2008, and at that time he pretty much vowed to kill every last Autobot AND Decepticon...

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:11 pm

Whirl!

I'm done

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:03 pm

Sunyavadin wrote:
Yaya wrote:Was a bit surprised though to see Cyclonus so willing to kill his fellow Decepticons.
You *WERE* trying to make a joke by that, right?

Of course!

Actually, his fighting the Autobots in Revelation kind of convinced me he was more Decepticon than Autobot. Kind of like Thundercracker, but I guess Cyclonus never really had a true allegiance, being part of the Ark I.

Carry on then...

Post by **snarl** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:13 pm

I was having a look on the IDW board about this issue.

They're a right ******* bunch aren't they?

Guessing some of them haven't been laid for a while... they're the kind of people who tend to love having sex related arguments aren't they?

Anyway, thought this issue was mustard, but I've loved all of MTMTE so that's not really a surprise.

However - I did feel that everybody from the main cast was "safe"... which watered down the dramatic effect a bit.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:54 pm

Hound wrote: For me, my favourite part was some explanation into Rewind and Chromedome's relationship. I get the impression people will kick off and complain that they are gay, but they are simply the most important people in the world to each other. I think it's beautiful.

A thousand times this - this is the kind of stuff that shows what an uncreative unimaginative idiot Costa was. “How do you write stories about these characters?” – berk.

Speculation on the mystery voice - it has to be one of the core cast right? i'd feel a bit cheated if it wasn't. Unless it turned out to be some leftfield brilliant idea which is of course entirely possible.

Literally the best comic being published today? Uncanny X-Force probably comes close - but there is nothing as bold or as beautiful on the market today for my money. I think we are being spoiled in a way that is not true since Furman's wrap up of G1. In fact it surpasses that significantly - but still the first time since then that truly bold, imaginative, character driven stories have been this good.

LSOTW starts to look a bit like an appetiser. A Michelin starred one admittedly.

A new bar has been set – truly hope this comic never ends. Ok – maybe the day before I die would be convenient.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:28 pm

I'm wondering if the mystery voice is actually Chromedome. He's in a pretty dark place at that time and there has to be be some repercussions for the injecting.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:23 pm

Awesome

Question, though: Cybertronians are notoriously hard to kill. Basically destroy the spark. Even blowing up brain modules is iffy because of 'backup stuffz' elsewhere in the body.

So, what I want to know is this: why are all their weapons and fighting techniques designed to be fatal only to a human anatomy? Particularly with things like swords.

Take wossisface who got a sword through the chops. Everyone walked off like 'job well done', but he's not dead, is he? No spark extinguishment happened. He's basically just temporarily disabled.

Why aren't their weapons designed purposely to obliterate sparks? Why piss around with swords and blasters and rockets when you could just design some weapon purely to destroy sparks?

The equivalent, I think, would be we humans fighting with stun guns. Occasionally fatal, but probably not. So your enemy will sooner or later be revived and fight again. Yet nobody thinks to design a weapon that actually kills, in over 5 squillion years of conflict.

I guess that's why their war has gone on so long

Sorry for the long ramble, it probably doesn't make sense and isn't important. I still really like this series

Post by **snarl** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:05 pm

Takes too much energon to use?

Too catastrophic to the landscape?

Isn't it implied that these guns do get the job done though anyway, just that since TFs are so durable, your window of time to repair them is longer and the type of injury survivable is greater?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:03 am

Karl wrote:So, what I want to know is this: why are all their weapons and fighting techniques designed to be fatal only to a human anatomy? Particularly with things like swords.

Take wossisface who got a sword through the chops. Everyone walked off like 'job well done', but he's not dead, is he? No spark extinguishment happened. He's basically just temporarily disabled.

Why aren't their weapons designed purposely to obliterate sparks? Why piss around with swords and blasters and rockets when you could just design some weapon purely to destroy sparks?

Well this has been sort of addressed through stuff like the Tyrest Accord and the Kimia Ethics Committee - even though it's a galaxy-spanning civil war there are still rules about how it's done. The Wreckers' cerebro-centric bullets were explicitly banned, for example, and it's testament to the fact that they're Wreckers that they basically don't care and use them anyway.

Given that (Wreckers aside) the Autobots' MO generally seems to be to go in, subdue the 'Cons, strip them down to their spark and imprison them until they break out, get a new body and start all over again, their choices of weapons seem entirely suited to the job.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:31 am

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Karl wrote:So, what I want to know is this: why are all their weapons and fighting techniques designed to be fatal only to a human anatomy? Particularly with things like swords.

Take wossisface who got a sword through the chops. Everyone walked off like 'job well done', but he's not dead, is he? No spark extinguishment happened. He's basically just temporarily disabled.

Why aren't their weapons designed purposely to obliterate sparks? Why piss around with swords and blasters and rockets when you could just design some weapon purely to destroy sparks?
Well this has been sort of addressed through stuff like the Tyrest Accord and the Kimia Ethics Committee - even though it's a galaxy-spanning civil war there are still rules about how it's done. The Wreckers' cerebro-centric bullets were explicitly banned, for example, and it's testament to the fact that they're Wreckers that they basically don't care and use them anyway.

Given that (Wreckers aside) the Autobots' MO generally seems to be to go in, subdue the 'Cons, strip them down to their spark and imprison them until they break out, get a new body and start all over again, their choices of weapons seem entirely suited to the job.

Ah, I see. I didn't know they had addressed that already in the fiction

So the Autohugs basically don't kill anyone unless they really mean it, but presumably the Decepticuddles have no such problems and kill more freely?

Edit- ignore me, I looked in up on the TfWiki and it seems to apply to everyone

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:46 pm

Re: The amount of critical injuries vs. actual deaths

There's a Roberts interview / issue commentary over on Facebook where he heavily hints at some big, big 'vacancies' - the idea being that the first arc of MTMTE has focused on a few characters, and that once they're *ahem* moved along, some of the other crew will take centre stage.

Of course we all know the identity of the 'monster in the basement', and if any of you have seen Milne's cover to #15 then you'll know that one character in particular is going to go down HARD.

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:49 pm

Hound wrote:
Best First wrote: For me, my favourite part was some explanation into Rewind and Chromedome's relationship. I get the impression people will kick off and complain that they are gay, but they are simply the most important people in the world to each other. I think it's beautiful.

Reminds me of that Flight of the Conchords song - "Not in a gay way, just in a hey way..."

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:48 pm

This was bloody fantastic! Best Christmas morning read ever. Loved the turnaround at the end.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:58 pm

My local have apparently been told it'll be bundled in with the delivery of RID 13 in Jan.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:27 pm

On the killing issue: think of the Transformer version of POW policy. While, on the battlefield, soldiers are shot in the act of surrendering all the time, most armed conflicts still manage to take a staggering number of prisoners.

The TFs live for millions of years through various reformatting. Someone like Rewind is a living repository of galactic history. Each one is also a computer program acquiring further... erm, whatever you techies might call it... engrams? Further subroutines?

Each TF is a marvelously unique construction that, unlike people, can be repaired and retooled. Think of the attention that Roberts gave to the unique nature of Ratchet's hands, which means they interfaced in a particular way with his brain/spark.

So killing one of these things--actually destroying his spark--means putting an end to all that.

In that sense, I think that part of the "4-million-year-self-perpetuating-war" has been the TFs' reluctance to actually destroy sparks. Hardwired, literally, into them is a great respect for mechanical life. So they're perfectly willing to blow bodies into slag, smash brain modules, etc, but they leave the spark alone. Hell, maybe they don't even realize what they're doing. But they leave the spark alone. After all, in G-9, wasn't Arcee just reduced down to a spark? Wasn't Overlord's spark spared? Overlord, of all things?

And I'm not sure I can blame them. Imagine a World War II where you could destroy bodies and archive souls, just by blowing bodies up and leaving them around for the archivers to collect. It's a much easier solution than POW camps, and even the Japanese, though their POW camps were nightmares, kept POWs.

In that way, the most genocidal, maniacal Transformers are going to be the ones who actually destroy sparks.

This is all ad hoc rationalization for James' apparent plotholes, yes. But maybe he's browsing the forum looking for such posts.

In that case, you're welcome.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:34 am

Excellent issue, altho a bit confusing until you've read the last page.

I have to ask one thing tho'... regarding upcoming issues...

...WHO, by all that's holy, WHO, in their right mind, would EVER put Overlord, friggin' OVERLORD back together, after what he's done, and the damage he sustained, into PRISTINE order?!

Seriously... wtf. I hope Roberts explains this one. I mean... he's hated by Decepticon and Autobot alike, so who put him back, and presumably as mighty as before?

Now that I think about it... that's probably some big plot-twist. Same as who strapped him into the under-side of the ship. Hmm... kind of looks as if he's primed to be used as a bomb or something, now dunnit'?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:48 am

Predabot wrote:Excellent issue, altho a bit confusing until you've read the last page.

I have to ask one thing tho'... regarding upcoming issues...

...WHO, by all that's holy, WHO, in their right mind, would EVER put Overlord, friggin' OVERLORD back together, after what he's done, and the damage he sustained, into PRISTINE order?!

Seriously... wtf. I hope Roberts explains this one. I mean... he's hated by Decepticon and Autobot alike, so who put him back, and presumably as mighty as before?

Now that I think about it... that's probably some big plot-twist. Same as who strapped him into the under-side of the ship. Hmm... kind of looks as if he's primed to be used as a bomb or something, now dunnit'?

Prowl. Prowl would do it. Not Barber's Prowl, the guy without real brains who goes Rambo in RID. But Rocherts Prowl, the clever and daring bot willing to try the unconventional.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:28 pm

Yaya wrote:Prowl. Prowl would do it. Not Barber's Prowl, the guy without real brains who goes Rambo in RID. But Rocherts Prowl, the clever and daring bot willing to try the unconventional.

I was with you up to "clever". Rebuilding and stashing Overlord in the basement may be many things, but clever it really, really, is not. More like "completely and utterly insane". Whoever's behind it is one sick bastard. Maybe it's someone who's had serious mental and physical surgery and, unhindered by emotion, does these things just to see what will happen?

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:50 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Yaya wrote:Prowl. Prowl would do it. Not Barber's Prowl, the guy without real brains who goes Rambo in RID. But Rocherts Prowl, the clever and daring bot willing to try the unconventional.
I was with you up to "clever". Rebuilding and stashing Overlord in the basement may be many things, but clever it really, really, is not. More like "completely and utterly insane". Whoever's behind it is one sick bastard. Maybe it's someone who's had serious mental and physical surgery and, unhindered by emotion, does these things just to see what will happen?

How high would you squee if it turned out to be Guzzle?

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:11 pm

The general consensus on the IDW boards is that the Lost Light picked up Overlord in Delphi... I'm not sure I've seen anything to back this up though.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:25 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Yaya wrote:Prowl. Prowl would do it. Not Barber's Prowl, the guy without real brains who goes Rambo in RID. But Rocherts Prowl, the clever and daring bot willing to try the unconventional.
I was with you up to "clever". Rebuilding and stashing Overlord in the basement may be many things, but clever it really, really, is not. More like "completely and utterly insane". Whoever's behind it is one sick bastard. Maybe it's someone who's had serious mental and physical surgery and, unhindered by emotion, does these things just to see what will happen?

Yeah, but look at it this way. The guy could be turned into the ultimate weapon. Prowl could be looking at it from that angle. He's a shifty guy who takes lots of risks. Case in point, only someone truly ambitious would take the chance of blasting the Lost Light into oblivion in an effort to have them warped away, as they were. In fact, IIRC, some Autobots did actually perish by that crazy maneuver.

Prowl was playing with many a life when he made that decision. He could be playing with many more in taking a chance with Overlord...including his own.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:48 pm

I thought the lost light warped because Shock and Ore were dicking around near the engines. I didn't think it was anything to do with Prowl in the end?

Jeez so much has happened in 12 issues that I forget

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:12 am

Hound wrote:I thought the lost light warped because Shock and Ore were dicking around near the engines. I didn't think it was anything to do with Prowl in the end?

Jeez so much has happened in 12 issues that I forget

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Prowl orchestrate the whole 'warp' thing with Shock and Ore?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:37 pm

Yaya wrote:
Hound wrote:I thought the lost light warped because Shock and Ore were dicking around near the engines. I didn't think it was anything to do with Prowl in the end?

Jeez so much has happened in 12 issues that I forget
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Prowl orchestrate the whole 'warp' thing with Shock and Ore?

I'm pretty sure that was due to Ore's bumbling - they were only supposed to plant a tracking device, but because he was standing next to the quantum generator their jump went wrong. Beyond that, I don't think we really know what Prowl's plans were with those two. I might have to read the annual again but I don't recall Ore going into much detail about what he and Shock were doing for Prowl.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:19 am

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Yaya wrote:
Hound wrote:I thought the lost light warped because Shock and Ore were dicking around near the engines. I didn't think it was anything to do with Prowl in the end?

Jeez so much has happened in 12 issues that I forget
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Prowl orchestrate the whole 'warp' thing with Shock and Ore?
I'm pretty sure that was due to Ore's bumbling - they were only supposed to plant a tracking device, but because he was standing next to the quantum generator their jump went wrong. Beyond that, I don't think we really know what Prowl's plans were with those two. I might have to read the annual again but I don't recall Ore going into much detail about what he and Shock were doing for Prowl.

I had always interpreted things as going according to Prowl's plan, that he actually planned the warp itself, which is why I felt he might be daring enough to try the crazy Overlord stunt. Warping an entire ship of Autobots to some random location is taking quite a chance with many lives.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:23 pm

Barber's probably keeping the depth of Prowl's newfound evil ambiguous. I would. Because there's no way to save that if a future writer hates it. Which, when I take over the series, I will.

In other news, did anyone know that Gene Yang of American Born Chinese, writes the new Avatar series? And's it ******* great? And he's a Transformers fan?

TransFans.co.uk

MTMTE 12 (Spoilers from the start)

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Re: MTMTE 12 (Spoilers from the start)

Re: MTMTE 12 (Spoilers from the start)