A Song of Ice and Fire Books Spoileriffic Thread

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:42 am

Enter only if you've read the whole damn thing!

So... is Jon Snow dead or what?

Post by **Best First** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:59 pm

If he is i will be miffed! He is the best character, or at least my favourite (joint with Tyrion anyway). That really took the wind out of my sales - the idea of Lord Snow shoving Longclaw through Ramsey's face (aka hot bastard on bastard action) has signfiicant appeal.

But equally there have been a few too many 'fake' deaths (Davos (twice), Catelin, Brianne, etc) so you gotta wonder if this time the trigger has actually been pulled. Stoopid Nigh Watch morons - look at the bigger picture!

That said (or but equally...again(or but even equallier)) i am not entirely convinced Stannis is dead either. Part of me suspects Mellisandre is looking to ways to fix her own prophecies and win Snow to her side and she knew all the things that were in the letter that convinced JS that it was real.

And maybe Jon is dead, but he will be getting some red re-animation like Beric and Catelin.

All in all i enjoyed Dance a lot more than Feast - the character split dealt a poor hand to the prior book - i enjoyed the Brianne and Jamie bits (Arya i love but her current venture all feels a bit padded) but Cersie, Sansa and some of the new bunch were a bit drab/filler - altho Vicatarion is growing on me. Versus Jon, Tyrion, Danny it was a bit of a daft division of characters in my view.

Do you reckon we will ever find out what happend to Benjen? Cold Hands?

And is Bran just gonna have to live at the bottom of a tree now? Bummer man. Altho i am rather hoping he is going to warg his way into a dragon at some point.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:31 pm

Oops.
*leaves thread*

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:13 am

Best First wrote:If he is i will be miffed! He is the best character, or at least my favourite (joint with Tyrion anyway). That really took the wind out of my sales - the idea of Lord Snow shoving Longclaw through Ramsey's face (aka hot bastard on bastard action) has signfiicant appeal.

But equally there have been a few too many 'fake' deaths (Davos (twice), Catelin, Brianne, etc) so you gotta wonder if this time the trigger has actually been pulled. Stoopid Nigh Watch morons - look at the bigger picture!

That said (or but equally...again(or but even equallier)) i am not entirely convinced Stannis is dead either. Part of me suspects Mellisandre is looking to ways to fix her own prophecies and win Snow to her side and she knew all the things that were in the letter that convinced JS that it was real.

And maybe Jon is dead, but he will be getting some red re-animation like Beric and Catelin.

All in all i enjoyed Dance a lot more than Feast - the character split dealt a poor hand to the prior book - i enjoyed the Brianne and Jamie bits (Arya i love but her current venture all feels a bit padded) but Cersie, Sansa and some of the new bunch were a bit drab/filler - altho Vicatarion is growing on me. Versus Jon, Tyrion, Danny it was a bit of a daft division of characters in my view.

Do you reckon we will ever find out what happend to Benjen? Cold Hands?

And is Bran just gonna have to live at the bottom of a tree now? Bummer man. Altho i am rather hoping he is going to warg his way into a dragon at some point.

Yeah, count yourself lucky you got Dance and Feast at the same time.

The best theory I've heard for Jon goes something like this: Jon will be reanimated because he is really Azor Azhai reborn. He'll be another one of the zombies, sort of struggling to remember the nice happy warm world through his haze as one of the undead.

The prevailing theory seems to be that Benjen is indeed Coldhands. Which makes him... another zombie? In service to the children of the forest? You ask me, Martin knows [composite word including 'f*ck']-all about what will happen to Bran's story.

Aegon blew me away. The same guy who gave me the "Jon-as-Azor-Azhai-Zombie" theory gave me the "dragon with three heads is Jon, Aegon, Danaerys," on the long-standing fan theory that Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. I'm guessing Aegon will figure much more as a vp character in Winds of Winter.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:28 am

Ah... i like the idea of Lyanna Stark as that would still explain The Snowmobile's long Stark face.

That said does the scene where TreeBran sees Eddard begging fro forgiveness in the wierwood not rather suggest that he did indeed do the dirty on Catelin? Still, could be a double bluff.

And yeah Aegon was a well kept one! Love the Tyrion influence.

I hope Ghost is ok

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:09 am

Best First wrote: That said does the scene where TreeBran sees Eddard begging fro forgiveness in the wierwood not rather suggest that he did indeed do the dirty on Catelin? Still, could be a double bluff.

Ah, but I have one for that. Robert Baratheon said "Rhaeger raped Lyanna hundreds of times!" So Ned lied and said that Rhaegar was preying on Lyanna when she was actually his willing prisoner... so Lyanna Stark's vagina determined the fate of Westeros. It's a bit flimsy now that I write it down...

Jon's got to be dead or zombified to some degree, methinks, because he followed the classic Stark Arc that Robb and Ned both followed. He made a stupid decision because of his perceived honor, rather than sacrificing for the good of the realm.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:46 pm

Good point - altho i dub it a Starc.

Will Arya be the one to break the cycle?

That said did he really make a bad decision per se - or was it more that the remnants of the 'old watch' could not accept his actions? Smashing Bolton would be no bad thing for the realm.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:16 pm

Bad precedent, methinks. The Night's Watch takes no part, and must continue to take no part in no way or else fellas such as Stannis will have the proverbial inch.

Not sure about Arya and the Starc. Is the Cat of the Canals bit a way of letting us know that she has changed her essential Starky core? Or her lack of a wolf close at hand, albeit the connection to one. I originally thought there might be a reunion scene with all the Starks at the end of the books. Bran is all a tree, Sansa is all Lady of the Vale, Arya is a Faceless ManWoman, and Jon Snow is the Lord Commander, but they can still sit down for a Christmas ham and pudding. Now I suspect old Devil George has more to kill.

So... are you underwhelmed by the prospect of a Jamie/Breanne fight? For some reason that particular storyline hasn't entranced me.

No fair bringing back the Mountain again! That bastard was dead!

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:13 pm

i quite liked the Jamie stuff as i went from thinking he was an iredeemable **** to thinking he was vaguly deemable. The Briane stuff is just an offshoot of that really.

I was hoping they don't fight and that Briane has some double bluffage planned. I also hope poor old Pod isn't dead but i am not optimistic on that one. Briane has a bit of a Starc going on was well really doens't she?

I think Arya remains pretty Starky - to be honest i don't see buy into the virtues of God of Many Faces bunch and hope Arya just learns some bad ass super powers and then buggers off. Part of me wonders of Syrio will reappear at some point and tie into them somehow.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:07 pm

You ever bought into the theory that Syrio is Jaqen?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:21 pm

Just what word saved Brienne's life? Or did it? Is she merely a reanimated trap?

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:43 pm

Oooh, I didn't even think about that. I don't have the book at hand and I'm supposed to be working--were there any comments about smell or something weird in the Jamie chapter in Dance With Dragons?

Lady Stoneheart's a cold bitch... I'd love to see if Martin could write something from her current headspace.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:34 am

Brienne's definitely acting weird in her last chapter with Jamie, but I don't remember anything about smell. But for the life of me I can't think of a single word (that she hadn't already said at that point) that would have stayed Stoneheart's hand.

I also hope poor old Pod isn't dead but i am not optimistic on that one.

Likewise, I think Pod's had it

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:02 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:You ever bought into the theory that Syrio is Jaqen?

It's crossed my mind as a possibility but again i wonder if i am just reaching as Syrio was cool and therefore i don't want him to be dead.

Then again people keep being not dead, so who knows.

I was thinking the word might have been 'Sansa'

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:59 pm

Hadn't she already mentioned Sansa at that point? If not, then I'd say that's a dead cert...

[edit] Having checked, she tried to convince Stoneheart that she was searching for Sansa before she was strung up, so that can't have been it, but maybe it was "Arya"?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:31 pm

Maybe it was her football team and once it turned out they both supported Doncaster it was all gravy. She's just come down to take Jamie to the match.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:54 pm

Best First wrote:Maybe it was her football team and once it turned out they both supported Doncaster it was all gravy. She's just come down to take Jamie to the match.

If Martin dies without finishing the series, I vote you as next author.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:15 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Just what word saved Brienne's life? Or did it? Is she merely a reanimated trap?

Bah-weep-grahah-weep-nini-bong?

Klaatu-barada-necktie?

Miranda?

So, is Robert Strong Gregor then or have we got Qyburnstein's Monster?

I don't buy Jon as Lyanna and Rhaegar's kid for a second. It would be teh epic cheat if he weren't Ned's son after all this, plus there was that milk brother of his and the guy on the Sisters who told Davos about him.

I want Jon to be alive as the thought of Snow vs Snow fills me with excitement, but yes the fake deaths are getting to be a bit repetitive now. Especially as I didn't buy Davos' fate at all and was more than a bit skeptical about Brienne. Having Dance to go straight onto kept my sanity there.

I can't see Stannis being dead, as I'm sure that if Ramsey had gotten to him he'd have had Theon and Jeyne back already. Jeyne! Jeyne! It rhymes with "I've spent four books wondering if they killed you or not!" Plus Ramsey's a nasty little lying liar. I like him. But in an "I want Theon to stab him in the eyes" way.

Also spent most of Dance thinking "yeah, this is all good and well but when's Varys going to turn up again?" So that was nice.

Just wish I hadn't glanced at a synopsis somewhere that ruined the Aegon twist, though I hadn't been expecting it that early in the book.

I want to know who Margaery's been *******.

Can't we just all get together and open up GRRM's brain or something and look at what's inside?

[ADDITIONAL]
Benjen as Coldhands occurred to me when Sam first met him... but I figured Bran would recognise him upon meeting. Hrm. I don't know, but I'm glad the book was Bran-light.

Also: The fake-Pate as Jaqen anybody?

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:53 pm

Jaqen showed up in the epilogue to Feast For Crows, didn't he? Ah, [composite word including 'f*ck'], I have to read the damn books again to comment in this thread.

Robert Strong is Zombie Gregor. Which would give us Coldhands = Zombie Benjen, Lady Stoneheart = Zombie Catelyn, Possibly Zombified Brienne For All We Know, Possible Zombie Jon Snow... at this point I wouldn't be surprised to see Khal Drogo come back leading zombie Dothraki on zombie horses.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:59 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:Jaqen showed up in the epilogue to Feast For Crows, didn't he? Ah, ****, I have to read the damn books again to comment in this thread.

There wasn't an epilogue to Feast, just Sam's last chapter; wherein he meets the alchemist who's replaced Pate. And might be Jaqen?

Actually, now I'm typing it out, Jaqen is where I know the coin-rolling-fingers that he had in the prologue from isn't it? So I'm stating the obvious aren't I? Balls.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:15 am

is the next one out yet?

what?

****ing how long?

bah.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:49 pm

There is an excerpt from Winds of Winter on Martin's site which has Stannis well and truly alive, if courting death:

georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:37 pm

Also in the back of paperback 2 of Dance, it seems. Thought the appendix was chunky. Not gonna read as it'll just spoil me.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:37 pm

i think as per previous books some of the events of the next book may be set before the end of Dance so not neccs a spoiler

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:05 pm

Just finished Dance. Much improved from the previous book, which was good but hard going at times.

I don't believe Jon is dead nor zombie. He'll be full of holes but someone would have got to him in time. Maybe Melisandre.

Also support the theory that Bran will come back and slip into a dragon at some point. The skin changing has to mean something.

Little bit bored of Arya's arc as it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I want her back in Westeros giving people the pointy end.

Enjoyed the Theon stuff. Was hoping he might get some redemption.

Will be glad to see the back of the Iron Born though.

Anyways, my ridiculous theory is this:

Come near the end of the last book, everybody will be dead.

Bran will be in his special tree. We've had teasers of trees whispering to Theon and it must be Bran torturing him (or Theon's madness).

Bran will transcend his special tree power to view a tree memory of him when he was not broken, and whisper a medsage to Himself.

As a result, Bran never goes climbing, never comes across Cersei and Jaime, meaning he isn't pushed, no one tries to murder him in his sleep, Ned doesn't die and Robb doesnt go to war. One massive Mephsito on the whole of Westeros.

Then they all die of flux anyway.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon May 07, 2012 7:48 pm

Hound wrote:Just finished Dance. Much improved from the previous book, which was good but hard going at times.

I don't believe Jon is dead nor zombie. He'll be full of holes but someone would have got to him in time. Maybe Melisandre.

Also support the theory that Bran will come back and slip into a dragon at some point. The skin changing has to mean something.

Little bit bored of Arya's arc as it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I want her back in Westeros giving people the pointy end.

Enjoyed the Theon stuff. Was hoping he might get some redemption.

Will be glad to see the back of the Iron Born though.

Anyways, my ridiculous theory is this:

Come near the end of the last book, everybody will be dead.

Bran will be in his special tree. We've had teasers of trees whispering to Theon and it must be Bran torturing him (or Theon's madness).

Bran will transcend his special tree power to view a tree memory of him when he was not broken, and whisper a medsage to Himself.

As a result, Bran never goes climbing, never comes across Cersei and Jaime, meaning he isn't pushed, no one tries to murder him in his sleep, Ned doesn't die and Robb doesnt go to war. One massive Mephsito on the whole of Westeros.

Then they all die of flux anyway.

Great Scott! That is a heavy theory.

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 08, 2012 12:38 pm

I think Tree Bran will feature at the end, but more to put it all into a far greater historical context when all others are naught but shadows and dust Maximus, shadows and dust.

Is the next one out yet?

Is the next one out yet?

Is the next one out yet?

Is the next one out yet?

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:31 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGUKDZFiy-A

Darth Aux · Post by **Darth Aux** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:58 pm

I wish I knew the book name of Game of Thrones, before I started reading this. Just watched episode 2 on Sunday. Doh!

Post by **Best First** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:57 am

Is the next one out yet?