TF Ongoing #10, 11, and 12 (SPOILERS)

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:29 pm

Okay, so admittedly, there were parts of this I enjoyed. I smiled some. Other times though, I cringed.

I would say that the strongest aspect of this story is the character focus and dialogue. Costa is adept at building up his characters and he's good with character interaction. I particularly enjoyed the interaction of Bumblebee and Thundercracker. (And damn, can Guido draw a kickass TC!) Very much enjoyed the character of Vortex. Laughed audibly regarding his comments about the Autobots sending Jetfire after him. Want to see more of this kind of thing. Also, the fight scenes involving the Combaticons were quite good. Nice to see Onslaught holding his own (somewhat) against Prime.

But are these things enough to distract from the painfully annoying concept that Transformers, even vicious hate-mongering Decepticons, must be beholden to petty humans? The scene with the Combaticons groveling before Korean heads of state is perhaps the worst scene in this story. Please, these are Decepticons! Combaticons! Robotic warriors from a war world. Currently residing on a planet they almost just destroyed.

The most unnecessary element? Just when you thought it unacceptable that the Combaticons were human pets, enter China's own pet cat, Rampage and his fellow Predacons. Thankfully, Razorclaw is spared the humiliation, and is absent from this story. Their presence made the final issue the worst for me.

There were other nuisances, like Bumblebee taking on his movie form, providing the painful reminder that the creators aren't as free to do with this comic as they please. Nice to see Bumblebee get his ass shot by a human pistol after that ridiculous speech.

Give this story a "C+". If one can get past the overall premise (and last time I checked, overall premises were important), there are things to like here, and it's probably worth a read. But brace yourself.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:54 pm

I picked up #12 at Comic Con. First one I've read since #6. I kinda enjoyed it. I'll be very surprised if Bumblebee is dead though

Post by **Best First** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:00 pm

Show off!

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:16 pm

... is this still going, then?

Post by **Best First** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:49 pm

going is generous.

But it'still... happening.

I think its dreadful. It's Brad Mick levels of bad.

i reread Infiltration today - the contrast in terms of the levels of craft and intelligence of the stories is soul destroying.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:35 pm

Best First wrote:
i reread Infiltration today - the contrast in terms of the levels of craft and intelligence of the stories is soul destroying.

The premise of Infiltration is far superior to what we have in the ongoing. Simon's strong suit has always been crafting good stories.

But Costa's dialogue and character interaction here is much more preferable to me. Really, it's the only redeemable element of his writing.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:29 pm

honestly? - i think this whole notion that Costa is good with character is a load of rubbish.

At best, he has taken Thundercracker and given him some depth, but this is all based on following something establised 20 odd years ago to it's logical conclusion, and McCarthy did half of it. Swindle he did well but again on the template laid out by Furman.

Outside of him who has had any development? Most characters have turned into idiots or cliches - Prime, Jetfire, Onslaught, Silverstreak, Brawn, Prowl Hotrod and now Razorclaw have all acted in a fashion that not only makes them look like general c*nts but for the ones who have appeared before in a manner that is inconsistent with their behaviour in the continuity before now.

Equaly on dialouge, give me 5 good lines from Costa's stories - things that have really moved you or impressed you or made you laugh.

I know Furman's dialouge can be a bit old school and overblown but at least it adds some drama to the story "Hard. Head - its not just a name" may not be Shakespear but it's better than the chuntering that Costa's supposed character's churn out.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:06 pm

Best First wrote: At best, he has taken Thundercracker and given him some depth, but this is all based on following something establised 20 odd years ago to it's logical conclusion, and McCarthy did half of it. Swindle he did well but again on the template laid out by Furman.

Yes, but you can say the same for Furman, that he used Budiansky and the tech specs as the template on which to build the character. I don't see using past elements of a character's personality as a starting point to which a writer adds as a weakness. As long as the writer brings something new. A new angle. Or makes us look at that trait in a different way then we did before.

What I like about Costa's dialogue is that he adds some personality and zing to something that we already know, making it less banal and cliche than it otherwise would be. It's not necessarily revolutionary, but it's something.

With McCarthy, he used TC without rhyme or reason, just threw him out there because that's what his tech specs say. Costa at least fleshes him out more, gives us a little insight into why he thinks the way he does, which makes his interaction with the Autobots and other Decepticons something you want to see.

Outside of him who has had any development? Most characters have turned into idiots or cliches - Prime, Jetfire, Onslaught, Silverstreak, Brawn, Prowl Hotrod and now Razorclaw have all acted in a fashion that not only makes them look like general c*nts but for the ones who have appeared before in a manner that is inconsistent with their behavior in the continuity before now.

Thundercracker, Vortex, Swindle, Alpha Trion, Ironhide. There have been some intriguing characters with potential.

But yes, some characters, namely Prime, have been reduced to dumbshits.

Equaly on dialouge, give me 5 good lines from Costa's stories - things that have really moved you or impressed you or made you laugh.

Don't have the issues in front of me, but some examples that I can think of would be Vortex in issue #11. Alpha Trion in the Ironhide series. Jetfire's comment about Hot Rod stealing Magnus' ship.

I know Furman's dialouge can be a bit old school and overblown but at least it adds some drama to the story "Hard. Head - its not just a name" may not be Shakespear but it's better than the chuntering that Costa's supposed character's churn out.

Don't agree with this. It's more the position that Furman puts his characters in that make it a good read, not the characters themselves. I can only think of a few instances (from IDW), like Hardhead and Nightbeat, where it was the character that had me hooked, and not the circumstances. Throwing in all the big heavy hitters like Straxus only to see them used as generics was painful and a waste.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not throwing out an endorsement to Mike Costa as the best choice for writer on the ongoing. That, i would easily say belongs to Rocherts. By far. But some aspects of Costa's writing are not that bad. Though in the backdrop of pisspoor premises, I can see where you are coming from.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:59 am

Yaya wrote:Alpha Trion, Ironhide.

Ahahahaha!!! *snort*

Yeah, right, Ironhide's gone from the guy who thought for an entire page about whether he should break the chain of command to go behind Prowl's back and contact Optimus Prime about the worsening situation on Earth...to the guy who punches people in the face. Every ****ing time. Oh, and now he's lost all memory of the past four million years. But, hey, at least he speaks with his trademark southern drawl! That's characterisation! If you don't know what the word means!

And Alpha Trion...don't get me started on Alpha-bloody-deus-ex-machina-Trion, the guy who conveniently pops up and erases awkward plot developments with a wave of his hand. Sunstreaker and Ironhide inconveniently dead? Not any more. Cybertron uninhabitable? He's been working on that since before AHM. Plague of Insecticlones? No worries, he's got a pet citybot that'll sort those out. His officious and sarcastic tone was mildly entertaining for about half an issue until it turned out that it was just a lead-in to yet another Ironhide punch in the face. Yawn.

I haven't really been reading the ongoing, so I can't judge how well Costa's done with Thundercracker and Vortex but from what I picked up of Swindle in the first arc, it seemed the the very best he did was write Swindle consistently with previous appearances - but in order to make the plot work he had to lobotomise Hot Rod.

Bumblebee's dead, you say? I'm sure Alpha-****ing-Trion is just around the corner with a box of tricks...

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:14 pm

Leave Alpha-*******-Trion out of this.

He's cool. Period.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:29 pm

Shattered Glass Alpha Trion is cool I'll grant you that, being as he is a stone-cold psycho, but G1/multiversal singularity Trion is overused, overplayed and overtired. And boring.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:50 pm

BUMBLESASSINATION!

Maybe it's because I'm a (wannabe) poet, but for me, there are two things to good dialogue: 1) that it doesn't stand out as implausible and silly, and 2) that it's occasionally memorable.

Costa falls down just as often as Furman and McCarthy on the first and gets nowhere on the second.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:37 pm

Totally agree.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:21 pm

So did JaJa give in and buy this?

Shame.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:26 pm

Didn't buy it, just read my bros.