You know, it sounds stupid when other people do it...

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:25 pm

From an interview with one of my favorite fantasy authors, Greg Keyes, talking about people's reactions to his Star Wars books:

"The worst SW books ever written are the ones written by Greg Keyes." And the funny thing is you’ll read these guys reviews, and they’ll say something like "Greg Keyes should never be allowed to write another SW book, but I will buy his next one because it is SW, but he shouldn’t be writing them." Which is bizarre.

Raise your hand if you own all 12 issues of All Hail Megatron and complained online about every one.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:51 pm

ha! i only own the first 6.

nyah nyah

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:53 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:
Raise your hand if you own all 12 issues of All Hail Megatron and complained online about every one.

Gave up after 2.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:09 pm

I bought three. 1 and 2, and then - was it 7 that was supposed to be marginally better? The one with Sunstreaker's death scene, which, in a better context, would have been competently and movingly done.

I read them in the stores so that I could weigh in on the debate. I have to say I think it's an utter fallacy that there's something stupid about buying and discussing books you don't like that (this is the important caveat) pertain to a franchise or fictional realm or a general field you do enjoy. We've got every right - and every reason - to complain about poor fiction, rather than shutting up and entombing ourselves in the ever-diminishing space afforded to high quality publications.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:21 pm

Best First wrote:ha! i only own the first 6.

nyah nyah

I own the first seven. Whew. I was starting to think we were a bunch of crazies. I mean, we may be in our thirties and still collecting plastic toys in an attempt to recapture what was essentially a corporate-controlled childhood... but I didn't buy 8-12!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:01 pm

I didn't buy 1-12! Hah!

However, had the feedback from my fellow Transfans been in any way favourable, I might have been inclined to buy the TPBs.

Which I didn't.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:10 am

Eh...I think I own #1, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7 and #8, plus Roche's coda, and that's it.

Aside from Spotlight Metroplex, the next IDW comic I bought was LSOTW #1.

Extreme poverty helped, but I'd like to think I learnt.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:30 pm

I bought a sub of Mr Bax, that's the only reason I own them all. I think it was a combination of blind hope that eventually it'd get better and not wanting to miss out and the thought that maybe it'll all hang together coherently when viewed as a whole.

I only read two issues of Coda. No, wait... I think I read one full issue and about three pages of another.

Also, the notion that if what came along afterwards ended up being good, not wanting to have missed massive chunks of the story.

I no longer buy Transformers comics that aren't called Last Stand of The Wreckers.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:37 pm

Ditto.

Post by **snarl** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:04 pm

Bought one, read two in the shop...

Thought "[composite word including 'f*ck'] this, its ****"

Then after that I occasionally read them in the shop, but I just got mad.

I've since bought Metroplex, Coda with prowl and Perceptor and LSOTW 1.

Yeah, I'm pretty much one of life's winners.

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:03 am

It was a tough break (mainly because I think I was single handily keeping my local comic shop open and never previously had the heart to refuse anything he tried to put in the bag) but I'm now completely clean of IDW crap. The fact that not only are most of their comics crap but that the company is run my moomins has made this easier.

With Last Stand... I'm applying the "No Homers Club" rule from that episode of The Simpsons for the trade.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:58 pm

Have bought every issue to date.

I find most issues aren't really bad, but they aren't good either. But when there is a bad issue, I find myself much less forgiving about the average ones.

Admittedly, I buy them mostly because of nostalgia and a desparate hope that every once in a while, a Shockwave Spotlight or Kup Spotlight will find its way into my hands.

I remember the days when every issue had me salivating for the next. I still remember the first twelve issues of the Marvel run leading up to Prime kicking Shockwave's ass after getting his head on straight. For me, those twelve issues weren't a comic. They were an event.

There are no more events in Transformers.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:04 pm

Yaya wrote: Admittedly, I buy them mostly because of nostalgia and a desparate hope that every once in a while, a Shockwave Spotlight or Kup Spotlight will find its way into my hands.

Believe it or not those comics are more than 3 years old now

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:26 pm

Yeah.

I would say the only real stellar TF issue I've read in the past year was the Prowl bit in that AHM:Coda issue. And that wasn't even a full issue.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:09 pm

So if we can get Yaya to stop buying them, IDW will be forced to capitulate to our demands.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:22 am

bumblemusprime wrote:So if we can get Yaya to stop buying them, IDW will be forced to capitulate to our demands.

If Yaya stops buying, it's a sorry state indeed.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:06 pm

I've found that I feel kind of free without this rabid dedication to Spider-Man and Transformers. I've dropped the comics that I felt the most attachment to, now I can drop any comic. The addiction is over.

I read real books much more than I used to. I've even rediscovered my passion for fantasy novels--specifically the aforementioned Mister Keyes, Naomi Novik's Temeraire series, and Stephen King's Dark Tower.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:43 pm

i just get attached to new comics...

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:58 pm

I keep wanting to buy comics when I'm in the shop, but a combination of being poorer than dirt/thinking about all that I've probably missed serieswise so far/worries about not being able to keep up with it afterwards/thinking that I might have bought this one already and simply forgot creeps into my head, so I end up not purchasing anything.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:41 am

bumblemusprime wrote: I read real books much more than I used to. I've even rediscovered my passion for fantasy novels--specifically the aforementioned Mister Keyes, Naomi Novik's Temeraire series, and Stephen King's Dark Tower.

My bro had Novik on his show talking about Temeraire. Never read it myself. I just finished reading The Pirate King by R.A. Salvatore. He's my favorite fantasy writer.

I think I buy comics because I'm hard up for entertainment. They are ridiculously overpriced and short on quality, and yet, I find myself buying them. Maybe it's because I find them a welcome distraction from the real trials and tribulations that come with life. Except for the TF comics I buy, I almost always read them just before bed as a means of "winding down".

Very rarely do I find myself getting into them like I do novels.

Another thing about comics is that they have the fastest depreciation of any item in the universe. You go into the comic store, buy one for $4.00, and as soon as you step outside the shopt, you can't even sell it for 50 cents.

Why do I buy comics? Oh yeah. The whole hard up for entertainment thing. Right.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:34 pm

I keep buying comics because the format is still so appealing. You go to the comic shop, pick up your weekly or monthly dose of something, find a little space to read it and then kick back and enjoy, all without taking much time out of your day. It feels less lazy and fatarsed than just watching TV, but it's more fun than trying to get stuck into a novel.

The problem is that most modern comics are just ... toss.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:08 pm

And did you buy all 12 issues of AHM anyway, Jack?

My bro had Novik on his show talking about Temeraire. Never read it myself. I just finished reading The Pirate King by R.A. Salvatore. He's my favorite fantasy writer.

I have heard from many people that if you like Salvatore you should check out Keyes. My favorite series from Keyes is The Age of Unreason, but if you like meatier medieval fantasy check out the Briar King. Lots of swordfights, swooning romance and scheming politicos.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:32 am

http://tformers.com/transformers-reveng ... /news.html

Unfortunately, piles of shavings are in higher demand than when the first movie featured them.

Still. Getting beat out by Barbie and Bakugan when you used to be number one isn't all that impressive, is it?

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:37 am

bumblemusprime wrote:And did you buy all 12 issues of AHM anyway, Jack?

Nah. I answered this above - I bought three issues. 1, 2 and 7 (I think it was 7). 1 for obvious reasons, 2 because I was still up for giving it a chance and 7 because it looked like it could be a turning point towards clearer waters.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:03 pm

Oh yeah, you did. Look at me--trying to catch you in a lie.

I think I buy comics because I'm hard up for entertainment. They are ridiculously overpriced and short on quality, and yet, I find myself buying them. Maybe it's because I find them a welcome distraction from the real trials and tribulations that come with life. Except for the TF comics I buy, I almost always read them just before bed as a means of "winding down".

That was, I think, what made Simon's initial run on the IDW issues so good. It was just fun adventurous stuff, pushing the envelope on our preconceived TF notions enough to keep us guessing. Helped that the art was usually good.

I looked so forward to those issues probably because I knew they wouldn't blow my mind but they would recapture the Furmanny goodness of my childhood.

Still, it's not hard to find stuff that will hit a similar sweet spot for me.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:02 pm

bumblemusprime wrote: I looked so forward to those issues probably because I knew they wouldn't blow my mind but they would recapture the Furmanny goodness of my childhood.

I was hoping it would do that too, but it didn't. In fact, in most cases I find Simon unable to reproduce the magic of the 80's.

Then again, I think that has more to do with a change in myself over the past twenty years rather than a change in Simon. I'm more critical now than I was then.

Bottom line. I evolved as a reader of comics and Simon really didn't, IMO. It's the reason why he's not on the main book. IDW was looking for a change of direction, so they took him off it and put some new, and unfortunately untested, writers on it instead. The result was something worse than before.

I think with Roche and Costa, they might just be starting to right the ship, so to speak.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:45 pm

Are you kidding? Costa is horrible. They sit around complaining, humans are supposed to be a credible threat, and there is no conflict worth a damn. The Autobots are so utterly passive that Optimus just gives himself up.

Give the ongoing to Roche. Costa is even worse than McCarthy.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:19 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:Are you kidding? Costa is horrible. They sit around complaining, humans are supposed to be a credible threat, and there is no conflict worth a damn. The Autobots are so utterly passive that Optimus just gives himself up.

Give the ongoing to Roche. Costa is even worse than McCarthy.

No way. McCarthy is far worse.

For one, I loved Costa's half-issue stint with Starscream in that one issue of Coda. That by itself was better than AHM in it's entirety.

I approach Costa's story in a different light than I would with past writers. In my mind, it's a new slate. I'm glad IDW didn't try to patch up every freakin plot hole that came from the disaster that was AHM.

If holding to the past continuity, which has been a major cluster-[composite word including 'f*ck'], is important to you, than yeah, I see how you would have your gripes with it. But I approach this ongoing as if it's a new slate. I accept the humans are strong. No explanation necessary for me. I accept the Autobots are fragmented and the Decepticons up and left. No explanation necessary. And I go from that point. Only three issues in, I can't say I've been real disappointed it the events thus far, but again, that's because I'm not bothered with how it didn't jive with AHM, or what Simon was doing.

The next three issue will be most telling on whether I think Costa is up to the challenge, or is he just another hack. He's shown me he can write well. McCarthy never really did.

With McCarthy, he kept insisting his stuff was going to jive with continuity, only to completely ignore it until fans castrated him by mid-series.

I would agree though, that hands down, the writer that has shown the most promise is Roche.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:39 pm

Yaya wrote: I'm more critical now than I was then.

Yaya wrote: I accept the humans are strong. No explanation necessary for me. I accept the Autobots are fragmented and the Decepticons up and left. No explanation necessary.

yeahbuhwah?

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:53 am

I am not bothered by continuity niggles. I gave that up as soon as they chopped Revelations.

I am bothered by these utterly boring, passive, bitchy characters, stuck in an uninteresting setting.

Mike Costa is supposed to be bringing some cool new thing to the series. Do we have examples of this? Yes we do.

In Joss Whedon's first issue of X-Men, someone found a cure for mutations.

In Grant Morrison's first issue of X-Men, Cassandra Nova killed millions of mutants.

In Simon Furman's first issue of the Marvel US run, Megatron returned and captured Ratchet. Unless you were in the UK, Megatron had been dead for 30 issues, so this was a cool thing.

All these things set up a huge change of status quo for the characters involved, reverberating through the rest of the series.

In Costa's first issue, Prime gives himself up to a bunch of humans. Does that change the status quo? Sure. Does it drastically change it? Does it invite compelling drama on a life-or-death level and exciting action sequences? Plotwise, we have to believe that humans have reverse-engineered enough Cybertron tech to be a credible threat. Then we have to accept Spike as a nemesis worthy of the Autobots, who normally fight Megatron, Shockwave, Unicron and Nemesis Prime. Then we have to believe that Prime's absence would really affect this group that has been hanging out doing nothing for a year.

Not enough of a game change. Prime giving himself up to the Decepticons would be more interesting. Prime dying--eh, been done but could be done well. Prime defecting to the Decepticons--now that would be a game change.

And now the Autobots are wondering what to do. Decepticons might want to collaborate. Humans are capturing some of the Autobots. Autobots can't get off-planet. What is at stake here? The only thing I see at stake is that the characters aren't doing **** and they might possibly start doing ****.

What's at stake in Lord of the Rings? From Chapter Two on, it's the Entire Shire and All of Middle Earth. And Lord of the Rings has one of the most deservedly criticized slow beginnings in fiction. What's at stake in Huck Finn? First, Huck's life at his Pap's hands, then Jim's freedom and by extension life. What's at stake in TF US #56?? The lives of all the Autobots lying in sick bay--Ratchet can save them with Megatron's tech, or he can doom them if Megatron catches him.

It's been three issues. Half a trade paperback. And unlike Frodo, Huck and Ratchet, I don't care for these whiny robots.

You've got blinders on, man. IDW is throwing out random nobody writers and you keep hoping that one of them will magically be The Next Grant Morrison Who Crazily Enough Got Started on Transformers. Grant Morrison doesn't come along that often, and when he does, it's on something that is not hypercontrolled by a toy company. Those guys come from edgy indie comics.