Lost, final season (spoilers).

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:06 pm

It's on!

Discuss.

I'm making dinner, so I can't discuss at the moment.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:20 pm

Yay for me being right about the identity of not-Locke.

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Boo for me not being able to remember every single thing from season 1, therefore not knowing why Shannon wouldn't be on the plane in the paradox-tastic new timeline.

Christ my brain hurts now.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:01 pm

Things are different in this paradox-time-thingy (like Desmond being on the plane). Things have changed.
This time Boone was not able to get Shannon to get on the plane. She's still in Australia (didn't he say that she was happy, or something, to Locke?).

I am super drunk, so... yeah. There it is.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:43 am

Yeah, but I mean in regards to "does the absence of the island have a direct effect in Shannon's choice"

like Desmond being on the plane

OR WAS HE? *Twilight Zone music*

I can't remember who Guy Who Told Locke to go walkabout worked for. Was that to do with the island? Should he still have been on the flight? Headboom.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:31 am

I really should have seen the ending of the ep coming. I mean, aside from LOST, V is the only TV show I've watched in like a decade.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:43 pm

Brendocon wrote:Yeah, but I mean in regards to "does the absence of the island have a direct effect in Shannon's choice"

I think it's more like "does the unavailability of Maggie Grace have anything to with Shannon's absence?"

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:41 pm

No, because the whole thing's been elaborately thought out and planned intricately from the very beginning so it's all part of the plan and nothing to do with SHUTUPANDDON'TQUESTIONIT.

Er, I mean "yeah, that was pretty much my B explanation".

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:58 pm

I've got to see Lost out to the end, but can't say I take much pleasure in it anymore. The whole bomb going off/sending everyone back to the future feels like a copout when it shouldn't have. The whole temple thing feels like a completely different show to the one we started with, but I suppose there never has been any rules as to where the show can go. Worst thing is I've long forgotten most of the plot strands so I can only ever tell a third of what is going on anyway.

Still, it's not as bad as Dollhouse. *runs*

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:25 pm

BSG is as guilty for randomly introducing weird elements that suddenly change the focus of the show and make it much bigger picture. But that got away with it due to being tightly written, fast paced and the new elements being relevant to the thematic.

Lost's lasted longer, had a massively languid pace and has gotten a bit to gimmicky. The "just flashbacks" structure lasted too long, but since then we've rattled through the gimmicks in a way that makes them feel like nothing but that. Flashforwards that converge with the main timeline! Actual time travel! Now a wacky alternate reality that can't actually exist because of massive paradoxical things that would have Daniel tearing his hair out and screaming at us if he were still alive.

I hope it all just makes sense when rewatched.

Dollhouse is far from perfect, but I love love love. It's fun. Though that said I still need to watch the last nine or so episodes... last one I saw was Sierra's origin story one. :/

I need to:
- Finish my BSG rewatch in glorious HD (just started season 4, Stockwell is awesome and the knowledge of what's really going on makes his performance all the more delightful)
- Catch up on Dollhouse
- Start Caprica
All the time whilst paying attention to Lost.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:01 pm

I love Lost, but some things irritate me.

Namely, why is it that with each season there's always a new group of people that proceeds to beat the **** out of them without ever providing an explanation for why they're doing it?

Why does everything have to be a damn secret? I mean, they get captured, get beat up, and when they scream "Why?!", it's always "we can't tell you".

I think even the producers know it. I think it was an inside joke to have that black dude last episode about to explain everything before his compadre told him to shut up or he got hit with that ton of rocks.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:04 pm

Brendocon wrote:
Dollhouse is far from perfect, but I love love love. It's fun. Though that said I still need to watch the last nine or so episodes... last one I saw was Sierra's origin story one. :/

I've only seen season 1, so I realise I'm on shaky ground. I just find it frustrating because every episode has flashes of Whedon genius but on the whole they just drag. And it's very dour. More jokes please. The show feels like a Feng shui Quantum Leap.

Dare I say The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which similarly had many problems, was more entertaining.

I've been impressed with some of the acting in multiple roles of the supporting cast though.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:51 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:
Still, it's not as bad as Dollhouse. *runs*

Keep running bitch.

For shame.

I totally gave up on lost about the time of the writers strike. Nothing i hear makes me want to get back into it. I need to watch the Soprano's anyway.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed May 05, 2010 2:09 am

Gettin intense!

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed May 05, 2010 5:54 am

Two more episodes to go, but still...

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed May 05, 2010 3:56 pm

Predictions?

Personally, I'm still hoping that Man in Black is the puppet msater Palpatine, Ben is blunt, easily manipulable Anakin, and Locke is the ultimately redeemed Luke.

Also, perhaps Jacob's "they're coming" at the end of last season references the impending arrival of the Sideways people on the island?

Also, perhaps Jack's ex-wife in the Sideways world is Juliet?

At any point, last episode was pretty sad. VERY VERY sad if you're Ji Yeon.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed May 05, 2010 4:52 pm

Poor Sawyer. He'll feel like **** when he realizes what he's done. Twas good to see Saeed redeem himself.

The acting on this show is just amazing. Seriously, it's Oscar caliber stuff. Especially that episode with Richard. That guy deserves some sort of special reward.

So who do you think will become the new Jacob, Jack or Locke?

I used to care about getting all the questions answered. But you know what? I don't care. I've come to realize the strength of this show comes from the characters and their journey.

And it's been one hell of a journey.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed May 05, 2010 5:16 pm

I like that they lied and said only five people survived the crash. Now there are only five survivors from the crash.

Unless Bernard and Rose are still out there somewhere.

Yaya wrote:So who do you think will become the new Jacob, Jack or Locke?

Locke's dead, dude.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed May 05, 2010 5:40 pm

Brendocon wrote: Locke's dead, dude.

Or is he?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon May 10, 2010 10:33 am

Yaya wrote:
Brendocon wrote: Locke's dead, dude.
Or is he?

He is. Totally. For now. Maybe. Unless...

Alright, only a few hours left of the show to go, I'm gonna make my predictions.

The chosen candidate is Hurley (likely boosted by the ghosts of the island (who will be set free after helping him).

Claire dies saving Kate.

Sawyer dies saving Kate.

The "alternate reality" becomes the main reality with The island being the only thing that still exists in the original reality.

Long shot: The "ghosts of the island" join with their alternate earth counterparts. Jack's got his family (now including Claire's and her son). Sawyer gets Kate out of the murder-rap. Desmond and Penny are together. Jin and Sun raise their child in the US. Michael reconciles with his mother and son. Hurley's the new Jacob, so he can be in two places at once. Locke probably stands at his own wedding.

I don't even care if that's a huge cop-out. After all that's happened since I started watching half a decade ago, they deserve some semblance of a happy ending. With nearly the entire cast dead that simply can't happen with one survivor trapped on the island with the smoke monster for all eternity (or until said monster manages to get someone else to kill Jacob's replacement).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 10, 2010 12:36 pm

Is Hurley's imaginary friend still dead at the bottom of the cliff?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Mon May 10, 2010 1:28 pm

Professor Smooth wrote: The "alternate reality" becomes the main reality with The island being the only thing that still exists in the original reality.

Long shot: The "ghosts of the island" join with their alternate earth counterparts. Jack's got his family (now including Claire's and her son). Sawyer gets Kate out of the murder-rap. Desmond and Penny are together. Jin and Sun raise their child in the US. Michael reconciles with his mother and son. Hurley's the new Jacob, so he can be in two places at once. Locke probably stands at his own wedding.

Not a long shot. Those are pretty much my predictions as well, except for the Hurley becoming the new Jacob part, as I think that will go to Jack.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Tue May 11, 2010 5:40 am

Yaya wrote:
Not a long shot. Those are pretty much my predictions as well, except for the Hurley becoming the new Jacob part, as I think that will go to Jack.

I thought so too, but once Sayid said, "it's going to be you, Jack," I changed my mind.

There's a lot to wrap up in the next few episodes. On the original island, you've got "who's the right candidate?" "what's the deal with the Man in Black and Jacob?" "Pretty much everything about Charles Whidmore and El. Hawking," etc. In the alternate reality, all that's really left is to settle things between Sayid and Kate/Sawyer.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed May 12, 2010 10:45 pm

So here's what I'm thinking, based on the this last episode. (Do not read if you have not watched it!)

I think the island is primarily a prison for the smoke monster, who represents the more base destructive aspects of humanity given physical form. The candidates are chosen to guard the island prison so that others do not inadvertently free the monster to wreak havoc in the world. In the presence of a candidate, the smoke monster cannot leave the island, and remains imprisoned.

The woman who raised the two children is, if not the first candidate, then a candidate. She uses any means necessary to find a potential candidate before she dies. Including murder. She raises Jacob and his brother (Man in Black). She erroneously comes to the conclusion that the Man in Black will likely become the next candidate, given his practical way of looking at the world, a way much like she views it. But the opposite happens, and it's Jacob's sentimentality which prevails. He stands by his "mother" due to a sense of duty and eventually takes revenge on the Man in Black for killing her by sending him into the golden cave that imprisons the monster, inadvertently freeing it.

Interestingly, the cave that houses the monster shines as an alluring golden light, symbolic of the way power and greed can seduce humanity. When Jacob kills his brother and the Man in Black floats into the cave, the monster is released. The Man in Black is killed, and from this point forward the smoke monster takes on his form.

Therefore, I think the Man in Black is not really Jacob's brother at all, but the smoke monster simply using another dead body, as he does with Locke in the present. When he tells Jacob "Do you realize how badly I want to kill you?", it's not really Jacob's brother, but the smoke monster speaking. If I recall correctly, not once does the Man in Black call Jacob brother or vice versa. Correct me if I'm wrong, as it shoots my theory down the toilet if he does.

Somehow, the chosen candidate is able to keep the smoke monster on the island. In the absence of a candidate, the smoke monster is free.

Ironic, how Jacob's brother in the end was actually quite innocent, wanting only to leave the island for very practical and understandable reasons. He's about to inadvertently free the smoke monster with the rest of the shipwrecked people by knocking down the wall, but his mother, the candidate, stops him. I think the smoke monster took the form of the Man in Black's real mother (because she was dead) and tried to convince him to leave the island, which would have freed the smoke monster from the golden cave.

So I think anytime a dead person shows up, it's the smoke monster trying to deceive people to do his bidding so he can escape into the world. I think he wanted Locke's body because he knew others like Ben would listen to Locke and kill Jacob. I think the smoke monster has now taken the form of Jacob and is leading Hurley along as well. I think that's how the smoke monster was able to get everyone in the sub together, by using Hurley to convince Jack. In this way, all the candidates would be dead, and he would be free to leave.

That's my hypothesis. I could be wrong. And it doesn't answer questions like how did Saeed come back to life and then save the crew? If he came back to life, it would have been as the smoke monster, so why did he save them?

I think there's going to be a lot of unanswered questions. And I think there will be much left open to interpretation, which is actually a clever way of ending the show. Not everything in life has an explanation, and I think leaving things open is not such a bad way to end it.

Warcry · Post by **Warcry** » Thu May 13, 2010 6:12 am

Yaya wrote:Therefore, I think the Man in Black is not really Jacob's brother at all, but the smoke monster simply using another dead body, as he does with Locke in the present. When he tells Jacob "Do you realize how badly I want to kill you?", it's not really Jacob's brother, but the smoke monster speaking. If I recall correctly, not once does the Man in Black call Jacob brother or vice versa. Correct me if I'm wrong, as it shoots my theory down the toilet if he does.

The Man in Black told Richard that Jacob took away his body and turned him into the smoke monster, though. If the black smoke is Jacob's brother, then we saw exactly that play out on-screen -- Jacob throwing him into the cave separated his soul from his body and inflicted a fate worse than death on him.

But if the smoke isn't Jacob's brother than that statement would make no sense at all. This late in the game there's no reason to make things even more complicated when we already have a perfectly good explanation for what we saw.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu May 13, 2010 8:08 am

Yeah, the Smoke Monster is using another dead body in the flashbacks - his own. Being as he's dead and all.

When Welliver hit The Source his soul separated from his body, mixing with and contaminating it. I think The Smoke Monster is MiB and The Source.

Because the glowy light didn't come back after the smoke left the cave.

Initially Welliver couldn't leave the island simply because Ma didn't want him to. Now he can't leave the island because, if he does, the contaminated Source goes out into the world with him... and The Source is confined to the island so long as The Protector is alive.

I did like that line of "well maybe one day you can make up the rules to your own game".

Moment I saw the magical glowing cavern I was like "yeah, smokey goes in there and his body gets fried." Score one for me. Didn't see Jacob chucking him in though. Jake's a prick.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu May 13, 2010 8:30 am

Is it wrong that, after watching the episode, I kind of want Smokey to win in the end?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu May 13, 2010 8:45 am

Professor Smooth wrote:Is it wrong that, after watching the episode, I kind of want Smokey to win in the end?

Nope. A bit of moral ambiguity's goodness. He just wants to leave his prison.

The fact Jacob swans about off island regulary makes him an utter cock. He lures people to the island and lets them kill each other just to prove his brother wrong about humanity. He let Sayid's wife get run over just so the guy would come back. Presumably he authorised the slaughter of the Dharma Initiative.

Now we find out he threw his own brother to what he knew was A Fate Worse Than Death.

Good on Ben for stabbing the ****.

[EDIT]
Interesting theory - MiB is the Island's Protector as well as Jacob. Mother knew what would happen if one of them went into the cave because she'd done it herself once.

The wine for Jacob was purely symbolic... she knew what would happen if she trashed the settlement, which she could only really have done as the Smoke Monster.

It was The Plan. Mother had two sons - two successors, one light, one dark. So she split the workload. MiB is the fist that Is One with the island, whilst Jacob stands guard.

... so, if the realities merge and John Locke gets his island life back, as the smoke monster... that would make Jack and John the successors?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu May 13, 2010 1:51 pm

Hmmm. I know the more popular theory is that body and soul were split, but I'm still not so sure the monster is Man in Black. When they asked about what was in the cave, adopted mother said "something that's in everyone".

What did this mean?

Is it wrong that, after watching the episode, I kind of want Smokey to win in the end?

Depends on what Smokey really is, I would say. I think they are going for "evil given form", but maybe it's not. Maybe Smokey's just like your average pet cat, always trying to run out the door. Should you hate the cat for being curious?

Interesting theory - MiB is the Island's Protector as well as Jacob. Mother knew what would happen if one of them went into the cave because she'd done it herself once.

The wine for Jacob was purely symbolic... she knew what would happen if she trashed the settlement, which she could only really have done as the Smoke Monster.

Hmm. Hadn't considered that. Maybe mother was Smokey because she went into the cave, and after she died, Venom..er, Smokey needed a new host.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu May 13, 2010 5:02 pm

Warcry wrote:
Yaya wrote:Therefore, I think the Man in Black is not really Jacob's brother at all, but the smoke monster simply using another dead body, as he does with Locke in the present. When he tells Jacob "Do you realize how badly I want to kill you?", it's not really Jacob's brother, but the smoke monster speaking. If I recall correctly, not once does the Man in Black call Jacob brother or vice versa. Correct me if I'm wrong, as it shoots my theory down the toilet if he does.
The Man in Black told Richard that Jacob took away his body and turned him into the smoke monster, though. If the black smoke is Jacob's brother, then we saw exactly that play out on-screen -- Jacob throwing him into the cave separated his soul from his body and inflicted a fate worse than death on him.

But if the smoke isn't Jacob's brother than that statement would make no sense at all. This late in the game there's no reason to make things even more complicated when we already have a perfectly good explanation for what we saw.

Thing is, it was MiB who said it, so it doesn't have to make sense or be true. He's a manipulator, saying whatever he needs to to get what he wants done. Anything coming out of MiB could be lies.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu May 13, 2010 9:42 pm

We've seen young Jacob's ghost running around the island, right? Would that mean that Jacob died when he was younger?

Thinking back on the last episode, it's brilliant and maddening. It presents itself as "here are all the answers," but really, there are little things that turn all them into more questions.

Anybody see the two preview clips for the next episode?