Seven killed at American University

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:52 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/niu_shooting

Some guy walked into a Northern Illinois University lecture hall and killed seven people. He also injured 15 more.

I graduated from NIU in 2005. In fact, my dorm was only about 100 feet or so from that lecture hall. I've spent the last few hours trying to get a hold of people I know who still go there.

Post by **snarl** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:07 pm

That's ****** up man. Hope you're friends are alright.

There are some rotten ***** in the world.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:09 pm

So far, none of the fatalities were people I've known. There is a press conference happening now that should give me some info. With the Japan/US time difference, getting new info has been a real pain.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/image/?id=46350

This is the guy responsible. I'm awaiting a more recent photo.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:44 pm

How many times a year must this happen?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:56 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:How many times a year must this happen?

It's the fourth school shooting in the US this week.

Cathy_Quinn · Post by **Cathy_Quinn** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:06 pm

Just guessing he had a history of mental health problems that were never taken seriously?

What a waste of young lives. My sympathies with their families.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:09 pm

Cathy_Quinn wrote:Just guessing he had a history of mental health problems that were never taken seriously?

EDIT

You are at least partially correct. Police say he had stopped taking his medication.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:03 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:How many times a year must this happen?
It's the fourth school shooting in the US this week.

bloody hell

Cathy_Quinn · Post by **Cathy_Quinn** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:28 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:You are at least partially correct. Police say he had stopped taking his medication.

In what way am I wrong?

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:05 pm

Interesting to note that afaik the only country in which these things happen all the time is in the one were there are more guns than people and even a retarded can buy one.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:28 pm

This is such a sad, sad, pointless waste.

Hot Shot · Post by **Hot Shot** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:34 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:Interesting to note that afaik the only country in which these things happen all the time is in the one were there are more guns than people and even a retarded can buy one.

Another contributing factor is that most public school kids are the asswipes of the future. Schools attended by students with well-paid parents tend to be plagued with psycological bullies, sometimes driving the bullied student to either suicide or mass shooting/suicide. Middle and lower class schools tend to have more physical bullies, sometimes driving bullied students to the same thing but with them occasionally getting killed in fights or by gangs. Most of this could be avoided if teachers gave a rat's ass about the students they teach, but I don't see that changing any time soon as they only care about the minimum wage they earn at the end of the day.

My prayers go out to the victims' families, but this crap could be avoided.

IronHide · Post by **IronHide** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:00 pm

Hot Shot wrote: Another contributing factor is that most public school kids are the asswipes of the future. Schools attended by students with well-paid parents tend to be plagued with psycological bullies, sometimes driving the bullied student to either suicide or mass shooting/suicide. Middle and lower class schools tend to have more physical bullies, sometimes driving bullied students to the same thing but with them occasionally getting killed in fights or by gangs. Most of this could be avoided if teachers gave a rat's ass about the students they teach, but I don't see that changing any time soon as they only care about the minimum wage they earn at the end of the day.

You're right, the schools are to blame! In fact, its definitely NOT the shooters fault at all.

This is the biggest waste of a post I've seen in a long time. Congrats at looking like a complete douche.

Cathy_Quinn · Post by **Cathy_Quinn** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:55 pm

IronHide wrote:
Hot Shot wrote: Another contributing factor is that most public school kids are the asswipes of the future. Schools attended by students with well-paid parents tend to be plagued with psycological bullies, sometimes driving the bullied student to either suicide or mass shooting/suicide. Middle and lower class schools tend to have more physical bullies, sometimes driving bullied students to the same thing but with them occasionally getting killed in fights or by gangs. Most of this could be avoided if teachers gave a rat's ass about the students they teach, but I don't see that changing any time soon as they only care about the minimum wage they earn at the end of the day.

You're right, the schools are to blame! In fact, its definitely NOT the shooters fault at all.

This is the biggest waste of a post I've seen in a long time. Congrats at looking like a complete douche.

WHOA, when did Hot Shot ever say it wasn't the shooter's fault? I must have missed that. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't make it a waste of a post. The fact is the school system is extremely flawed and a lot of kids aren't disciplined properly at home which makes them think it is ok to abuse other kids. Even if this happened to the shooter it of course does not change the fact that he was warped and sick and caused the death of seven innocents.

How about putting down the Daily Nazi and learning some tolerance, jerkweed?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:18 am

Westboro Baptist (the "God Hates Fags" church) is going to be protesting at the funerals of the NIU shooting victims.

I just want to go cry somewhere.

IronHide · Post by **IronHide** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:02 am

Cathy_Quinn wrote: WHOA, when did Hot Shot ever say it wasn't the shooter's fault? I must have missed that. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't make it a waste of a post. The fact is the school system is extremely flawed and a lot of kids aren't disciplined properly at home which makes them think it is ok to abuse other kids. Even if this happened to the shooter it of course does not change the fact that he was warped and sick and caused the death of seven innocents.

How about putting down the Daily Nazi and learning some tolerance, jerkweed?

Gee, i dont know....

Hot Shot wrote: Most of this could be avoided if teachers gave a rat's ass about the students they teach

The only contributing factor is that the guy went off his meds. Where does the school come into play? Where does it say he was a victim of bad teaching and bullying? He was regarded as an outstanding student.

And Daily Nazi? Really? I'm sorry for posting my disgust at the fact that people always jump to the conclusion that its someone elses fault.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:46 am

First, let's understand that Hot Shot is coming from the perspective of a 15 year old, KNEE DEEP in the psychomelodrama that is being a teenager in high school. So his perspective is a unique one, colored by being in the moment, that does not need to be put in the "douchy" catagory.

Secondly, this is a 27 year old guy. It's an adult who didn't take his medication and shot up a bunch of people. This has much more in common with that guy who runs in and shoots up a restaurant or his place of employment than Columbine or VA Tech, IMHO. There were no warning signs. We recently had a similar incident here at UT. A graduate music student, stopped taking his meds, went over to his Piano professor's house and chopped her up. It's extremely sad, but I don't think this is coming from a "angst and alienation from the world" place like a lot of school shootings, although clearly the copycat effect is happening.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:11 pm

And, predictably, Karl mooches into the topic:

IronHide wrote:
The only contributing factor is that the guy went off his meds.

Untrue. His mother died late last year of MND. We are also unaware of what he was even taking medication for. There could be any number of reasons and contributing factors.

Where does the school come into play? Where does it say he was a victim of bad teaching and bullying? He was regarded as an outstanding student.

Unless my eyes need testing she didn't say in this instance the school were to blame, it was an observation of a general theme of mental instability, usually coupled with prescribed medication, and the general unwillingness of institutions to deal with it other than to throw tablets at the problem. Obviously in this specific instance the institution in question are the mental health services who are meant to help people. Commonly, it would seem, the institutions involved would include the educational establishment although not in this circumstance.

Although the authorities have been very quick to state they had no idea etc etc (covering their own asses as usual) The Times reported that close friends had been concerned about the bloke's behaviour for weeks and that it was known he was acting strangely and had come off his medication (they're being very close as to what his meds were and what he was being treated for). It doesn't exonerate the guy from doing it but raises questions as to why nobody picked up on his strange behaviour.

And Daily Nazi? Really? I'm sorry for posting my disgust at the fact that people always jump to the conclusion that its someone elses fault.

Or alternatively how dare we try and consider root problems and associated factors which we may be able to identify to help in preventing similar acts in the future? How can you honestly be disgusted and go so bloody nuts because people haven't just said "It's because he's evil, that's why it happened."?

IMO Hot Shot didn't deserve to be slammed like that for a general comment.

Now it's Cathy's turn for a word.

Cathy_Quinn · Post by **Cathy_Quinn** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:17 pm

Just a short one as Karl has pretty much outlined where I stand on the topic

IronHide wrote:And Daily Nazi? Really? I'm sorry for posting my disgust at the fact that people always jump to the conclusion that its someone elses fault.

Can you quote where he jumped to that conclusion? Seems to me he was just contributing to the discussion on the subject of social issues in general, at no point did he revere the shooter or impart blame for this incident or any like it to any institution or person.

But of course, you're completely entitled to see ignorance where it isn't. Stupid me for thinking you were picking on a teenager who had done nothing wrong cos it makes you feel like a big man

IronHide · Post by **IronHide** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:53 pm

Cathy_Quinn wrote:But of course, you're completely entitled to see ignorance where it isn't.

Oh, I didnt know you were familiar with the American School System which, believe it or not, I attended for the better part of 20 years. But please, do enlighten me on your knowledge.

Cathy_Quinn wrote: Stupid me for thinking you were picking on a teenager who had done nothing wrong cos it makes you feel like a big man

Agreed. I wasnt picking on a teenager, in fact I dont even know how old he is. There have been plenty of people with opinions that other dont agree with who have come and gone. Ive watched much more heated debates throw around far worse words than douche. Like you said, everyone is entitled to an opinon, his was expressed, and so was mine. You can think me a bad guy, could care less.

The shootings were a result of a mentally imbalanced person who decided to kill innocent people. Bringing the school into the conversation doesnt really make sense as they had nothing to do with it.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:44 am

/unpopular opinion post of the thread

If there was only but one armed and trained student in that classroom, who knows how it would've ended up.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:14 am

I really hoped this wouldn't turn into an excuse for everyone to throw out their pro/anti gun arguments, but since that's what we're doing...

This was not a robbery. This was not a situation that the shooter was trying to get away from. This was a situation where he had intended to kill a bunch of people and then himself because he had, apparently, gone batshit crazy. He INTENDED to die. If everyone in that classroom were carrying a gun, he'd probably have been MORE likely to try to shoot it up as he'd know that, even if he doesn't have the nerve to shoot himself, SOMEBODY will do it for him.

Even so, I had the same thought, "Man, maybe they SHOULD let other students carry guns." Then I actually thought about it.

Let's say that there was someone with enough training to actually hit the shooter from across the auditorium. I've been in this classroom, btw. It's huge. It holds around 200 students. It's twice the size of most movie theaters. Now let's say that this hypothetical guy whipped out his gun and shot the nutter in the head before he could pop off a shot. That's not legal. The nutter would have to have shot at least ONCE before the other armed student could have taken a shot. Once the guy took the shot, damn near everyone in the auditorium took off towards the back. Now the hypothetical armed student has to shoot the student while making sure to not hit any of the mob running his way. I don't see that as being particularly likely.

Now on to the logistical side of things. Have you ever fired a handgun? Dude, it's not easy, even under the best of conditions. A friend of mine has been practicing for years and he's lucky if he can hit a headshot on a stationary target 25 feet away. This is a guy who has spent years practicing, and he's still not a crack shot. So, if you've got three college students with guns firing at one college student with another gun, you are probably going to see more injuries and/or deaths.

Since I'm on a roll here... I LOVE the argument that Americans need guns in case they ever need to fight the government. Fight the government? With GUNS?!? You think you're going to fight the government with GUNS?!!? NOW?!?! You think your ******* glock or your goddamn assault rifle is going to give you power against the government? You've got a gun, or a whole warehouse full of guns? Great! I'm sure they're going to do you a whole lot of good against the F-22s, tanks, and MASSIVE FRIGGIN' ARMY that the government has at its disposal. You're going to attack THE GOVERNMENT with GUNS?!?! Wonderful. There goes any sense of restraint the hypothetical evil government would have used.

It's all so crazy. I have friends at NIU. I used to have classes in that same classroom. After the shooting, I spent an entire day trying to get ahold of everyone I'd known from NIU to make sure that they were alright. Not 10 minutes after it happened I see people using this tragedy to trot out their pro/anti gun arguments. I see that ******* Westboro Church thanking God for the shooter and announcing that they are going to the funerals of the dead students. It's ******* sick. This was the fourth school shooting in the US THIS WEEK! The entire goddamn country is sick and the only things I hear people talking about, on the news, on message boards, on Myspace and Facebook, on the phone, and even in my own ******* apartment is "This is my opinion on guns!"

I'm going to be sick.

Cathy_Quinn · Post by **Cathy_Quinn** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:16 pm

IronHide wrote:Oh, I didnt know you were familiar with the American School System which, believe it or not, I attended for the better part of 20 years. But please, do enlighten me on your knowledge.

That is rather like saying I am not capable of criticising military torture without having been on the receiving end of it. Aside from that, I made no direct criticism of the American School System but instead commented on the way society seems to be going in general based on life here in the UK and what I have seen on the magical box in my living room and read in those big white papery things with the black marks on them.

IronHide wrote:Agreed. I wasnt picking on a teenager, in fact I dont even know how old he is. There have been plenty of people with opinions that other dont agree with who have come and gone. Ive watched much more heated debates throw around far worse words than douche.

Aside from the fact that there was a recent thread where HotShot announced his 15th birthday

I'm sure those debates were fuelled by much more controversial comments than those that HotShot made. I am not being politically correct to the extent that I think nobody is allowed to say anything negative - I abhor forums with that attitude and have left them because of it. But making somebody feel an inch tall for no good reason is a different thing altogether and is not something I can sit back and watch.

IronHide · Post by **IronHide** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:49 pm

I had this big huge response all typed up and ready to go. I read it over, then realized that its not gonna matter because you're under the impression that im some arrogant bastard who likes to pick on little kids. Well, one out of three isnt bad I suppose.

So I'll back off, this topic has derailed in an extreme and annoyingly unrelated way. Its a shame considering the circumstances. There is no questioning how much of a tragedy this was and how senseless and brutal this man was. If you choose to place blame on some institution, consider exactly what you're saying before throwing out some angst-ridden post.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:25 pm

Everyone calm down. Everyone stop name calling. Everyone show a bit more respect for other people's opinions.

And definitely don't roll your eyes at someone for not having read the same post as you unless you want to totally undermine whatever point you might have been trying to make.

****s sake.

Cathy_Quinn · Post by **Cathy_Quinn** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:07 pm

I sincerely apologise for any offence I may have caused, and certainly regret and if it were possible would retract any behaviour that implies I am not capable of listening to opposing arguments or that I have made up my mind about anybody's character based on a handful of posts. For what it's worth that is not true, and if anybody has been holding back on that assumption please do so no more. I would also like people to bear in mind that my opinion is completely separate from Karl's and if I am in any way damaging his reputation on here then please let me know and I will find another message board.

Take care everyone.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:51 pm

Wow... this topic is aflame.

I don't really know what to say about this guy that did the shootings... other than that I am perplexed as to why there are so many of them in USA as opposed to other parts of the world, and I feel as if I can't really hate a guy like him...

Seems to me he wasn't whole... best I can describe my feeling is that he seemed like a... broken machine. There's something missing in him, some broken part. It's hard to believe, that he should really be made to held responsible for his actions, when he is not a whole person.

I have a fairly cynical belief that he would simply have been sentenced to execution in the USA had he survived this suicide-run of his, however..

PS: I don't think anyone is under the impression that Cathy is somehow sullying Karl's reputation on this board. She seems to be a fairly clever and easy on the eyes young lady.

( what..? It's true..

)

Hot Shot · Post by **Hot Shot** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:50 pm

Cathy_Quinn wrote:I sincerely apologise for any offence I may have caused, and certainly regret and if it were possible would retract any behaviour that implies I am not capable of listening to opposing arguments or that I have made up my mind about anybody's character based on a handful of posts. For what it's worth that is not true, and if anybody has been holding back on that assumption please do so no more. I would also like people to bear in mind that my opinion is completely separate from Karl's and if I am in any way damaging his reputation on here then please let me know and I will find another message board.

Take care everyone.

Karl's reputation is in no way damaged.

Little arguements are bound to happen once in a while and it'd be a shame if you left over one as minor as this. I'd feel guilty if you left over a fight started by a comment to my comment.

Most, if not all, of us would miss you if you left.

Aaron Hong · Post by **Aaron Hong** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:45 am

Predabot wrote:Seems to me he wasn't whole... best I can describe my feeling is that he seemed like a... broken machine. There's something missing in him, some broken part.

Sylar?!

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:36 am

Yeah, I don't think anything said on here reflects on Karl in any way because what you said is what you said and what he said is what he said and you are your own person.

And as to what you said, I don't feel there's anything you've said that needs to be apologed for and more importantly, we ALL can agree there's nothing that's happened here that makes us remotely want you to leave, or anyone else for that matter.