Devestation #2 Review (SPOILERS)

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:40 am

It was okay, but too short. Read waaaay to quick for my tastes.

Happenings: Ark-19 crashes, Hot Rod and Wheeljack attacked by Sunstreakers. That's about it. But both scenes were very well done.

That was pretty much the gist of it, with the pace suffering from Infiltrationitis a bit. I mean, there were some little surprises, but nothing that had me out of my seat.

A "B-" issue, not fully satiating but not bad either.

Hot Shot · Post by **Hot Shot** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:52 am

Escalation? I must've stepped back in time...

I have to say, Sunstreaker's partially disassembled dismembered head asking to be killed gave me chills. Freakiest thing I've read from IDW yet.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:26 am

Still, the dismembered head is clearly nicked from when Shockwave took Oppy's head waaaaay back when, and the kill me line was done MUCH better IMO with Megatron/Ratchet in Marvel continuity.

That's not saying I didn't LIKE these developments/shoutouts. To me, what Furman is doing in IDW is mixing up his old works, archetypes, and themes, and putting them in a new context laid out exactly the way he wants to. Like he's a DJ, and he's sampling Marvel/DW/G2 continuities to make a whole new song.

Another case in point of that in this issue: Introduction of Headmasters. US Government funded Headmasters. Anyone else remember any secret government agencies taking the heads off Transformers before? Of course, we've got our guy on the inside for our POV, Spike Wit, oops I mean Jimmy. Or is that Hunter? I forget at the moment.

And Six Shot? C'mon! "Well, the ship crashed into the water, so OF COURSE everyone's dead. "

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:51 am

When you think about this issue though, it really moved at a glacial pace.

Case in point:

At the end of issue #1, the Ark is crashing and a bunch of Sunstreakers are attacking Wheeljack and Hot Rod.

So what do we have by the end of #2? Well, the Ark crashing and a bunch of Sunstreakers attacking Wheeljack and Hot Rod.

See what I mean by glacial?

E.J.Su · Post by **E.J.Su** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:16 pm

No I don't see what you mean.

If the Autobot's action taken on board the Ark means nothing to you, if Wheeljack and Hotrod gotten rid of 2 the of Streakers mean nothing to you, if Headmaster confrontation means nothing to you, if all the dialog and interaction between bots means nothing to you, then you are reading the wrong book.
As much as I appreciate your support on every issue, but you don't seem to enjoy my artwork all that much, you don't seem to enjoy the writing, what are you doing reading the book?

Post by **Best First** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:26 pm

Not sure discouraging people to stop buying the book when they criticise it is the best tack mate.

I enjoyed this, but it did feel brief, and in the grand scheme of things it didn't advance the plot massively, which is a tad more galling given that we have waits inbetween series as it is. Its not that things didn't happen, but a lot of it - the headmasters, Hunter & Sunstreaker's fates, Starscream waking up, has been pretty well telegraphed.

I actually enjoyed the issue a lot (more on second reading) but i see Yaya's point.

Things i liked:

I was expecting the ark to crash and Six-shot to be seen picking them off in the Wreckage and i really enjoyed seeing Prime take control and the various Autobot reactions.

Astrotrain's face! Brilliant - the amount of characterisation that is carried by the art in this series is phenominal.

The Dealer cameo keeps that one ticking over.

Hunter using the Professor Zarkov technique! Even if its a bit lifted...

The explicit reference to Wheeljack's driving skills and his interplay with Hot Rod.

The art. The art. The art.

Not so keen on:

Yeah, no survivors.

Not sure about:

Having men for heads as an evolutionary step.

Manchester Devil · Post by **Manchester Devil** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:42 am

Best First wrote:Having men for heads as an evolutionary step.

I'm sure Nova Prime will have a fit over that.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:36 pm

E.J.Su wrote:No I don't see what you mean.
If the Autobot's action taken on board the Ark means nothing to you, if Wheeljack and Hotrod gotten rid of 2 the of Streakers mean nothing to you, if Headmaster confrontation means nothing to you, if all the dialog and interaction between bots means nothing to you, then you are reading the wrong book.

You are missing my point, E.J. If you read my post, my complaint is not with what happened. It's that not enough happened, at least for my taste. You'll find that I'm not alone in this either.

As much as I appreciate your support on every issue, but you don't seem to enjoy my artwork all that much, you don't seem to enjoy the writing, what are you doing reading the book?

Spare me, please. You're being overly sensitive.

On almost every issue of the regular series thus far, I have given it a "B-" or higher! What more do you want?!

If you are looking for someone to shower praise on every little thing you guys at IDW doing, whether it's good or not, you're looking at the wrong guy. I call it how I see it.

And seeing things as "B"-grade shouldn't give you reason to attack those who overall enjoy what you guys at IDW are doing with the Transformers.

Constructive criticism should be the impetus for improvement, not for backlashing. It's true, I'm not that keen on your pencilling, but that's a matter of opinion, and one you shouldn't take personally, particularly when it is loved by the majority of other fans. I'm a Figueroa/Roche/Senior kind of guy, what can I say.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:24 pm

Um... I loved it?

And I think EJ did some of his best work ever in this issue, esp. the crash and the double shot of Wheeljack and Hot Rod. (BTW, EJ--the cleavage shot when the Ark almost crashes? Very Michael Bay of you.)

Come on. It was fun. I guess we all saw Headmasters coming ten miles away, but not a fleet of Sunstreaker Headmasters.

The only thing that may have bugged me was the famous Furman puns. I think "...dangerous curves!" is the absolute cheese-winner of all time.

Post by **Best First** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:57 pm

Yaya wrote:You'll find that I'm not alone in this either.

words cannot express how much i hate opinion embellishments of this nature.

have some confidence in your own opinion for Christ's sake.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:14 am

Best First wrote:
Yaya wrote:You'll find that I'm not alone in this either.
words cannot express how much i hate opinion embellishments of this nature.

have some confidence in your own opinion for Christ's sake.

But it's fact, not embelleshment!

It's not some quirk in me that I found the issue a bit thin. I mean, if I were the only person to say it, I would start to think "maybe the problem is me", but this is not the case, is it? That's my point.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:34 am

its not a point though is it.

yu are saying 'some people agree with me' as if it reinforces what you are saying.

But the internet being what it is someone who totally disagrees with you can say exactly the same thing.

express why you think what you think, as long as you can justify it it doesn't matter of 1000 people or 1 person agrees with you.

More people than not (online) seem to think Morigin (as i have just dubed it) is ok, that's not going to make me question the fact i think its a bag of monkey balls because i know why i hold that opinion. end of.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:41 pm

Best First wrote:its not a point though is it.

yu are saying 'some people agree with me' as if it reinforces what you are saying.

But the internet being what it is someone who totally disagrees with you can say exactly the same thing.

express why you think what you think, as long as you can justify it it doesn't matter of 1000 people or 1 person agrees with you.

More people than not (online) seem to think Morigin (as i have just dubed it) is ok, that's not going to make me question the fact i think its a bag of monkey balls because i know why i hold that opinion. end of.

Yes, I know what you're saying, and it's logical to me too.

But in the context of a personal attack by IDW's penciller, my logic is that E.J. should also attack the other many fans who had the same criticism on all the other boards instead of singling me out as the only fan who felt this way.

Going back to E.J.'s abilities, I don't think the guy is bad, regardless of how he puts it. My brother absolutely loves his style, and he's not really a big TF guy. And most fans(which puts me in the minority) love what he's doing. I just don't have that same love for it. I like the way he draws chase scenes, I like the way he draws the bodies of the bots, but I just hate his faces. They all have the same two-dimensional rectangle for a nose. His Optimus Prime? One of the best I've seen. I just prefer Don and Nick, and feel E.J. can improve in some areas.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:43 pm

er, you seem to have jumped from criticising the pacing to the art.

besides which while you say 'people feel the same as i do' its never quite the case.

Post by **Denyer** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:40 pm

Steve's been ****ed over by Diamond, but I've read this thanks to kind scanning and thoroughly enjoyed it.

quote]When you think about this issue though, it really moved at a glacial pace.

Case in point:

At the end of issue #1, the Ark is crashing and a bunch of Sunstreakers are attacking Wheeljack and Hot Rod.

So what do we have by the end of #2? Well, the Ark crashing and a bunch of Sunstreakers attacking Wheeljack and Hot Rod.

See what I mean by glacial?

No, since the Sunstreaker stuff wasn't in the issue one story -- that was a next-issue preview -- and #2 was mainly about the Machination.

Loved the number of plots running side-by-side though.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:52 pm

Best First wrote:er, you seem to have jumped from criticising the pacing to the art.

Well, I think it's my past criticisms of his work that made him "call me out" on the issue, so to speak.

Not sure why he took it so personally though.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:22 am

To me, EJ's post was basically saying, "Well, you've said before that you don't like my art, and now you don't like the pacing/writing/part Simon is responsible for, so then if you don't like EITHER of these things now, why are you buying the book?"

Which perhaps is oversimplifying your view on the scripts/pacing, because like you've said, you've enjoyed it up to this point.

But as far as "Responses from Comic Book Artists/Writers to Criticsm of their Work From the Net," I thought EJ was respectful, even headed, and took it about as nonpersonal as possible in the face of someone saying they don't like their work, and that they like just about everyone else that's pencilled a TF comic in the last few years (Milne excluded).

"I have opinion X, and many others feel the same way, so you can not doubt my opinion" is proportionally equal to "I think you totally suck ass, but many others disagree with me, so I can feel righteously martyred in my opinion"

Post by **snarl** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:40 pm

I had to adjust myself to "new" TF shins and feet when IDW first started their run.

It doesn't say who does the inks (I assume the artist does their own) and in all honesty there were times where I felt it looked a bit scruffy in Infiltration. Not so now. I find it's really crisp, fine where it needs to be, bold where it needs to be, clean and blemish free.

I also thought the quality of Rauch's colouring varied widely from page to page, which certainly detracted from the pencils in the earlier issues. Josh Burcham's colouring is excellent and his stuff with Roche and and Don is lush.

But as a combo, Zac Atkinson's colours go really well with EJ's art. The art right now is excellent. Very, very clean, very consistant. With regards to the main book, since about Escalation 3 It's been consistently brilliant with some jaw dropping stuff like PRime V MEgs in esc 5

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:59 pm

Oh that was a marvelous issue. I get a bit aroused just remembering it.

E.J.Su · Post by **E.J.Su** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:55 am

Yaya wrote: But in the context of a personal attack by IDW's penciller

Oh boy, please tell me you didn't just acuse me of ATTACKING you. Which part of my original post was an attack is beyond me, and you actually believe this is personal? don't pat yourself too hard on the back man.
Seriously, I got better thing to do than hunting down those who has anything negative to say about me, and quite frankly, your past comments about my work wasn't even that harsh to hold any grudge.

Although both of your so-called "case in point" are false representation of the issue, I don't see this conversation going anywhere, so I'll shut up now.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:01 am

in fainress i think its a matter of opinion/taste rather than a 'false representation'.

the rest - fair point.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:17 pm

Well I really liked it.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:57 pm

E.J.Su wrote:
Yaya wrote: But in the context of a personal attack by IDW's penciller
Oh boy, please tell me you didn't just acuse me of ATTACKING you. Which part of my original post was an attack is beyond me, and you actually believe this is personal? don't pat yourself too hard on the back man.
Seriously, I got better thing to do than hunting down those who has anything negative to say about me, and quite frankly, your past comments about my work wasn't even that harsh to hold any grudge.

Although both of your so-called "case in point" are false representation of the issue, I don't see this conversation going anywhere, so I'll shut up now.

Well, I'm glad you realize I really don't hate your work. I'm not so glad you didn't personally hunt me down, because I no longer feel special.

Like I said, the majority of fans love your stuff, I just have my personal preferences. In fact, I have more of a problem with the coloring, which to me is bland, than with your pencils. It's a matter of taste is all. My brother freakin loves your stuff, by the way.

And again, I liked Devestation #2, I just felt it was too thin. A fair criticism, I think.

And your post sounded personal to me, but hey, I'll take your word for it that it wasn't.

Certainly makes things more fun if it was though. I'm enjoying this kind of banter with IDW staff, and I'm glad they have the guts to tee off on a fan now and then.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:23 pm

they play golf with them?

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:17 pm

Something involving golf clubs and members of this fandom sounds about right, anyway...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:26 pm

Best First wrote:Not sure about:

Having men for heads as an evolutionary step.

Other way round, wasn't it? Having robots for bodies is the step.

Finally got my mits on it. Yay for Steve.

Slow paced, but given the eight issues worth of plot in #1, that's forgivable. Stuff happens, albeit stuff we'd already worked out. But nice to see it actually unfolding rather than threatening to.

When's #3 out?

E.J.Su · Post by **E.J.Su** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:09 pm

Yaya wrote:Well, I'm glad you realize I really don't hate your work. I'm not so glad you didn't personally hunt me down, because I no longer feel special.

Like I said, the majority of fans love your stuff, I just have my personal preferences. In fact, I have more of a problem with the coloring, which to me is bland, than with your pencils. It's a matter of taste is all. My brother freakin loves your stuff, by the way.

And again, I liked Devestation #2, I just felt it was too thin. A fair criticism, I think.

And your post sounded personal to me, but hey, I'll take your word for it that it wasn't.

Certainly makes things more fun if it was though. I'm enjoying this kind of banter with IDW staff, and I'm glad they have the guts to tee off on a fan now and then.

I never use "hate" and this is not what this is about anyways.

Well, my post was personal, I mean it's directed at you, but it's not personal like "I am watching you" kind of personal, you know what I mean?

Best First wrote:in fainress i think its a matter of opinion/taste rather than a 'false representation'.

Actually, it is false.

>> At the end of issue #1, the Ark is crashing and a bunch of Sunstreakers are attacking Wheeljack and Hot Rod.

Nobody attacked Wheeljack and Hotrod by end of issue 1, that took place entirely in issue 2.

>> So what do we have by the end of #2? Well, the Ark crashing and a bunch of Sunstreakers attacking Wheeljack and Hot Rod.

I could chalk this one up as opinion although over exaggerated, but Ark crashed half way in the issue and first half of the issue devoted good number of pages to Wheeljack and Hotrod.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:33 pm

fair point on the sunstreakers but i can't agree on the ark crashing. I enjoyed the scenes but the crash was definite by the end of issue 1 and took up a chunk of issue 2 anyway.

and if you rephrased it to say "Hot Rod and Wheeljack are on their way to rescue ironhide" his point would stand.

Like i said, i enjoyed the issue, but suggesting that things have not progressed enormously quickly from the end of issue 1 to the end of issue 2 (which is the point that Yaya was making, even if his examples were a bit skewiff) doesn't seem unfair to me.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:39 pm

snarl wrote:
But as a combo, Zac Atkinson's colours go really well with EJ's art. The art right now is excellent. Very, very clean, very consistant.

With you on that one.

I read this in the same sitting as Megs Origin #4.

Purposefully I read Origin first - I knew I'd need cheering up after.

E.J.Su · Post by **E.J.Su** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:42 pm

I would never argue the plot advanced a great deal, that part is certainly true.

>> and if you rephrased it to say "Hot Rod and Wheeljack are on their way to rescue ironhide" his point would stand.

but he didn't.

My point is, even between crashing and crash, there's a lot of information going on. Quite frankly, this is how this series will be, it will be slow developing, there will be time when you would feel like things are standing still. You'll finding things out slowly, and I am can almost predict that Yaya will always finds each issue unsatistifying (although I am sure he will have more to cheer next issue since Nick is on it, Nick was amazing in the issue btw).