Megatron Origin #3 (Spoilers)

[Best First]

More of the same in my book, dreadful and at points indecipherable story telling and a spectacularly unispired plot plus average at best dialogue.

On top of this i think we have a really ill thought out look at pre-war Cybertron (non of the politics or hierachies are clear, people just have random ranks and therefore seem to be 'important') and as a special treat this issue woefully inconsistant colouring.

nothing here enriches Megs or the TF mythos.

Except the notion that several of them apparently wear hats.

[rusty_herring]

[Hot Shot]

At least we see Orion/Optronix...

[Guest]

At least we see Orion/Optronix...

Does he have a hat, and is it like a Superman/Clark Kent deal, where when he's not wearing his hat, he's Optimus Prime?

[Yaya]

Weak stuff, through and through.

It's disappointing that a story with such potential, with such promise, is being handled so poorly, both story and artwise.

And what a crucial story it is too, the anchor tale cementing IDW history.

Artiwise its more of the same, with many indecipherable panels that leave me scratching my head (by the end of this series, I will be bald). Granted, the characters are a little clearer, but even still, the art certainly has contributed in crimping this story.

Storywise, this issue was the weakest thus far. With four issues total, each issue has to get something done. This one seems to languish and drags on without much happening by stories end.

Even the dialogue was weak. For example, in one panel we have Sentinel Prime stating Bumper's death is "a great loss, but this is no tragedy." Two panels later, what is he saying? "To me, this tragedy offers an immediate, startling purpose". And this idiot is the leader of the Autobots?

Sigh. It's not all bad. We get to see Megs and Starscreams first encounter in the IDWverse. Grimlock's in there along with Sunstreaker, somewhat drawn to the Decepticon idealogy, which is in character and nice to see. But all in all, the redeemable qualities of this issue are few and far between.

A give this issue a "C-", and I'm probably being somewhat generous. Doubtful the fourth issue can save the series for me, but here's to hoping.

[Best First]

ok, the good news is we are back to disagreeing.

id go D- at best.

This is my husband, his name is Crap Bag.

[Hot Shot]

You know, I realized that this issue contains more "left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing" than the last issue.

Rumble and Frenzy become Soundwave's cassettes, but in spotlight Soundwave he doesn't seem to have them.

I remember Simon Furman saying that IDW was going to stay away from the idea of Fembots, yet we see Orion wrapping his arm around Elita-1 on page 6 and 7.

Grimlock speaks as he should in this issue, but he speaks proper in spotlight Shockwave.

I'm starting to wonder if Origins is even supposed to fit in the IDW-verse.

[Best First]

yes, the power of the editorial is not strong here.

[spiderfrommars]

Is this series turning out to be a disaster?

[Best First]

in my eyes, absolutely.

[Yaya]

Is this series turning out to be a disaster?

I would say "yes", based on the lost potential here and the significance of such a tale that solidifies IDW TF history.

I mean, it's not Micromasters bad, or Sixshot bad. The ideas were certainly there, as was the cast. It's exciting to see things like the meeting of Megs and Starscream for the first time. It's cool to see Ratbat as the corrupt Senator. But the execution of it all! Damn shame.

[Best First]

if ypu could tell me where the ideas are i'd appreaciate it - there's nothing new or interesting that i see.

Far worse than sixshot.

[Yaya]

if ypu could tell me where the ideas are i'd appreaciate it - there's nothing new or interesting that i see.

Well, the ideas aren't new per se, but as far as I know they have not been explored or featured in detail (I never read State Games)

Anyway, idea-wise (not execution-wise), here's what I like:

I like the idea of Megatron beginning as a cog in the machine of society, a laborer living day to day who becomes victimized by a government run by corrupt Cybertronians.

I like the idea that Megatron developed his power and cunning underground via gladitorial combat. Makes sense how the rest of Cybertron would be unprepared for the coming of Megatron.

I like the idea that Frenzy and Rumble were the first 'friends' of Megatron.

I like that Ratbat and Soundwave were jointly responsible for arms escalation to make a profit, and that they actually were the proverbial fuel on the fire in the birth of the Decepticons and in bringing Megatron to power. Megatron somehow seems more the pawn here.

I like the idea of featuring another Prime before Optimus that became Megatron's bitch.

I like the idea of seeing the major players of the Decepticons we know and love today meeting for the first time and how it happened. I love the history of it all.


So if you think about these things, they sound cool and should be cool, but this series has done them little justice, don't you think? I mean, I would wager that if Roche was given full charge of this series in both writing and pencilling it, it would be hailed as one of the greatest TF tales ever told in comics.

[Hot Shot]

if ypu could tell me where the ideas are i'd appreaciate it - there's nothing new or interesting that i see.

Well, the ideas aren't new per se, but as far as I know they have not been explored or featured in detail (I never read State Games)

Anyway, idea-wise (not execution-wise), here's what I like:

I like the idea of Megatron beginning as a cog in the machine of society, a laborer living day to day who becomes victimized by a government run by corrupt Cybertronians.

I like the idea that Megatron developed his power and cunning underground via gladitorial combat. Makes sense how the rest of Cybertron would be unprepared for the coming of Megatron.

I like the idea that Frenzy and Rumble were the first 'friends' of Megatron.

I like that Ratbat and Soundwave were jointly responsible for arms escalation to make a profit, and that they actually were the proverbial fuel on the fire in the birth of the Decepticons and in bringing Megatron to power. Megatron somehow seems more the pawn here.

I like the idea of featuring another Prime before Optimus that became Megatron's bitch.

I like the idea of seeing the major players of the Decepticons we know and love today meeting for the first time and how it happened. I love the history of it all.


So if you think about these things, they sound cool and should be cool, but this series has done them little justice, don't you think? I mean, I would wager that if Roche was given full charge of this series in both writing and pencilling it, it would be hailed as one of the greatest TF tales ever told in comics.

Problem is, it's already been done in War Within, and nearly all of those ideas were handled and handled better. Origins only took a large chunk of DW ideas, injected some of their own, and threw them together in a messy format, and for that reason it fails.

[Manchester Devil]

if ypu could tell me where the ideas are i'd appreaciate it - there's nothing new or interesting that i see.

Far worse than sixshot.

At least Ruffolo's pencils discovered clarity in Sixshot. Milne's, on the other hand, seems to have got lost for this mini-series. Holmes seems to be bloody well determined to make his mark on the IDWverse at the expense of Furman's careful planning. Where were the editors? This is as bad as the Copy Chip rubbish in Megaman X8. Logic? What's that?

What? Oh...

Whos willing to bet Megatron wins by default because Sentinel Prime suffered a fatal heart attack in iss 4? Anyone?[/quote]

[KingMob]

if ypu could tell me where the ideas are i'd appreaciate it - there's nothing new or interesting that i see.

Well, the ideas aren't new per se, but as far as I know they have not been explored or featured in detail (I never read State Games)

Anyway, idea-wise (not execution-wise), here's what I like:

I like the idea of Megatron beginning as a cog in the machine of society, a laborer living day to day who becomes victimized by a government run by corrupt Cybertronians.

I like the idea that Megatron developed his power and cunning underground via gladitorial combat. Makes sense how the rest of Cybertron would be unprepared for the coming of Megatron.

I like the idea that Frenzy and Rumble were the first 'friends' of Megatron.

I like that Ratbat and Soundwave were jointly responsible for arms escalation to make a profit, and that they actually were the proverbial fuel on the fire in the birth of the Decepticons and in bringing Megatron to power. Megatron somehow seems more the pawn here.

I like the idea of featuring another Prime before Optimus that became Megatron's bitch.

I like the idea of seeing the major players of the Decepticons we know and love today meeting for the first time and how it happened. I love the history of it all.


So if you think about these things, they sound cool and should be cool, but this series has done them little justice, don't you think? I mean, I would wager that if Roche was given full charge of this series in both writing and pencilling it, it would be hailed as one of the greatest TF tales ever told in comics.

Problem is, it's already been done in War Within, and nearly all of those ideas were handled and handled better. Origins only took a large chunk of DW ideas, injected some of their own, and threw them together in a messy format, and for that reason it fails.

Yeah, WW and State Games as mentioned; that's practically a checklist with names switched. I prefer new things, but SG rewritten would have made a better jumping off point than the weird Crap Star Warsy/Fantasy feel of the first ish. I'm afraid I haven't been getting it since, #1 was so bad, so can't really comment except on what you guys are saying.

Cartoon-material mining for hooks in stories (Rumble+Frenzy given prominence with Megatron instead of say, Ravage, fembots, Grimlock speaking "as he should" instead of "proper" - by which I am guessing you mean he speaks like the cartoon version) does seem to result in lesser quality stuff.

Yaya, PM me if you want to read State Games.

[Metal Vendetta]

I wrote a lot about this one over at IDW, so here's a cut 'n' paste:

---

Eh, I've read it through a couple of times and I can only second the calls for Nick, or Simon, or someone with a bit of editorial clout to have had a hand in this, because issues #1-3 read like a cluttered mess and I still have no idea why or how Megatron does what he does, aside from a little help from Soundwave which may or not be handed down from Ratbat...

An internal monologue for Megs could have saved this. I might write one and add it to my issues with little bits of sticky paper. His speech was a good moment, but there's really not been enough of this kind of talk from him. So far he's been silent, brooding, and...well, that's it. Suddenly he's a great orator too, but we've seen little or nothing of where that came from.

The meeting between SP and Megs was well done...at least initially, I couldn't make out what was supoosed to be happening after their first exchange...also the shot of Bumblebee, Cliffjumper and Hubcap was a cool moment, which brought a smile to my face. Less pleased to see Onion Paxo, Alpha Trying-too-hard and Elita-fanwank, but gotta keep the toonies happy I suppose.

Um, 5/10 I suppose. This feels like something DW left for IDW to take care of. Roll on on Devastation and Ascending.

---

So flaws aside, this book could be alot worse

True, it could be a lot worse, and I realised my initial assessment of the book was probably misplaced. This isn't so much a DW (puttup!) product, as a Botcon comic. I expected this level of quality from Games of Deception but not from an IDW comic, because this should have been this summer's Stormbringer. Instead, we have:

Rubsigns - er, Smokescreen did that back in DW and I didn't buy it then either. It's a tired gimmick and smacks of the Japanese headmasters having their STR SPD INT scores displayed on their chests - simply including toy details in the plot for the sake of it. It adds nothing to the story and even complicates it...presumably the seekers don't have rubsigns but Swindle lets them through anyway? He doesn't even ask Soundwave who the three bots following him into the base are. And then Swindle talks like he knows Soundwave anyway, so why does he need to show his rubsign at all? After all, all he had to do was knock and Swindle opened the door...I'm sure the rubsign thing is a highly effective method of security if there's a knock at the door *KTNK KTNK*, Swindle opens it and there's Sentinel Prime and the Wreckers about to go postal all over him. "Er guys, can we deal?"

Fembots - every time I see Onion with his hand on Elita's shoulder, with Alpha moustaching in the background I want to rip my bloodied eyeballs from their sockets and throw them at the IDW offices. Okay, that's maybe a little bit too harsh, but for crying out loud can't we just get over this notion of Optimus Prime having a girlfriend? Please? Is there really any need for robots with tits in the IDWverse?

Megsy's glowing mace hand thing - didn't we see this already last issue when Soundwave specced out the weaponry on offer? Showing it again now seems to be laying it on a bit thick, and if he's going to use it to smack down Sentinel Prime next issue then it totally gives the game away. Show the gun in act one and show it being fired in act three. If Megs does whip out the old glowing mace hand thing next issue, it's going to lose a lot of its dramatic impact.

Masses of cameos - I suppose the War Within* suffered a bit from this as well, but it just seems massively convenient that Ratchet, Prowl, Wheeljack, Ironhide, Onion, Bumblebee and Cliffjumper are all mates this far back, and that none of them have been killed in the meantime during what is going to be an incredibly long and violent war. It's like when Trek fiction includes Shelby or Admiral Ross, giving the impression that there are only about 10 people in the whole of Starfleet - it just doesn't feel real. As it is, the Autobots are already a badged-up security force - giving the lie to the established tradition that most of them were civilians or scientists or gardeners before the war - and most of the regular faces are present in a line-up that doesn't appear to change much for the next 4 million years, aside for its leader. There were some nice generic Decepticons this issue, a few more scattered around the Autobot ranks would have made for a much more convincing state of affairs.

Sunstreaker being a pit fighter would a welcome exception to this, if only it wasn't a throwaway reference to State Games without any real substance to it (see Vos and Tarn for more details). Why not go further? Why not have Sunstreaker be a member of the Predacons' team? Why not show his reaction to all that stuff Megs was saying with the senator? Did he get busted along with everyone else? How's his moral compass reacting to all this?

Still no internal monologue - page two would benefit leaps and bounds from some of Megatron's thoughts. As would most of issues #1 and #2.

Argh, the artwork. The seekers on page three are straight out of fanfic. Ditto for pages four and five. Page eight I don't understand at all. Why does Skywarp appear out of nowhere and fly into a wall before teleporting in behind the senator? And if we are to presume that Starscream abducts the senator, where does he stash him? Inside his jet form somewhere? Subspace? Plot hole? The colouring errors on page twelve are shocking - combined with the murky art, almost all the references were lost on me - I thought Divebomb and Razorclaw were Slugslinger and Triggerhappy before reading this thread. Pages 22 and 23 took me a good few goes before I understood what was going on there too.

The Rumble and Frenzy thing I don't get but I suspect that more will be revealed next issue when Soundwave inevitably tape-ifies his former employer Ratbat. It would have been nice to see or hear a little more about it though. Maybe Megs's internal monologue again, or a glimpse of what the modifications entail? Instead of "You're with Soundwave now" "Okay".

I don't mean to be over-critical because this comic does have some flashes of brilliance - I like the art on pages one and two very much, page eleven is nice and page twenty (aside from the confusing panel where it looks like Prowl is trying to put the claw on the guard) works really well. But there are missed opportunities here - the splash page on the centre pages could have been an amazing who's who of the early Decepticon movement - like a game of "Where's Shockwave?" - but instead we got a close-up of Grimlock and the Predacons' butts (presumably because they block out a lot of time-consuming detail). Awe-inspiring it's not, and it really should be at this stage.

And the dialogue does sparkle sometimes. Megatron's speech, in fact most of pages 16-20 are top notch, though I did get the feeling that he was channelling Tyler Durden at one point. Seeing the three minibots concerned at losing one of their "own" was a nice moment, and Starscream is characterised well on page nine. The Ratbat interlude was a nice touch, too.

I really want to like this, I really do, but sadly the whole thing just isn't working for me. It just reads like a string of cameos and references - the way fanfic often does - and I feel like Edward Norton's character about halfway through the movie, in that I'm still no wiser as to Meg's motivations or desires other than that he wants to turn fight club into an army

*Although Dark Ages did a lot to redress this

---

So yeah, still not overly impressed with this series so far. My predictions for next issue are pretty obvious, so I hope that Mr. Holmes has something ace up his sleeve and we won't see:
1. Ratbat was the one who betrayed the fighters to the security forces.
2. Megatron has him modified into one of Soundwave's little buddies
3. Megatron (thanks to the inbuilt weaponry he paraded in front of the seekers) will smack down Sentinel Prime, and a bunch of redshirt Autobot guards.

The icing on the cake would be Onion putting his hat on and stepping into the breach.

...Additionally I'm really quite irked by the implication that all the Transformers' heads are hats of some sort. It was cool when Don did it with Jetfire and Bumblebee because it explained a few of those little quirks of Transformers lore, like why Jetfire and Bumblebee had two different faces. It works with Stormbringer Jetfire because his Classics toy does exactly the same job, and Classics Jetfire is the love, the money and the dog's bollocks. But I'm not so taken with the idea that Optimus Prime can whip off his pointy headphones and retract his faceplate nor that Megatron has a punk hairdo hidden underneath his helmet. What's next? Prowl pops his "wings" off and puts them on a coathanger? Grimlock keeps his fangs in a glass by his bed?

Problem is, it's already been done in War Within, and nearly all of those ideas were handled and handled better. Origins only took a large chunk of DW ideas, injected some of their own, and threw them together in a messy format, and for that reason it fails.

Sadly it's not even that simple. It's like a rehash of War Within, State Games and a bunch of toon lore as well (the old Constructicons "building " Megatron bit, Orion Pax etc.). It's a terrible mishmash of stuff from all continuities that barely registers as part of the IDWverse as we know it.

[Legion]

Onion Paxo

ah... been a while since i've heard that particular derivation/derision.


i've got my hands on this yet, and i'm starting to think that maybe i won't bother...

come on IDW... what the heck you playing at?!

[Onion Paxo]

Onion Paxo

ah... been a while since i've heard that particular derivation/derision.

i'm like the Candyman*, say my name and i'll appear before you...


*except i'm more savoury...

[Yaya]

come on IDW... what the heck you playing at?!

I love that IDW is trying to add some variety in the writing department.

I hate that IDW gave such an important project as the Megatron/Decepticons origin to an untested writer with whom most of us had no familiarity. That was a mistake on IDW's part, and they really should have had someone assisting an inexperienced Holmes, like Simon or Nick.

Yaya, PM me if you want to read State Games.

Thanks Mobster, but I think I have it along with all the UK stuff on a CD I bought a few years ago. Just have to find it. Do you remember what the issue numbers were?

Even the dialogue was weak. For example, in one panel we have Sentinel Prime stating Bumper's death is "a great loss, but this is no tragedy." Two panels later, what is he saying? "To me, this tragedy offers an immediate, startling purpose". And this idiot is the leader of the Autobots?

(Yes, I just quoted myself)

I just found another example in the dialogue of terrible writing regarding Sentinel Prime.

Not only does he say "this tragedy offers an immediate purpose" after saying it wasn't a tragedy, but then comments that said tragedy offers "a crystal clarity". Then in the next panel, what's he saying? "The only question unanswered is what do we do with it?"

What happened to that crystal clarity????

No wonder the Autobots end up getting screwed over. This Sentinel guy makes Rodimus look like Optimus!

[spiderfrommars]

Thanks Mobster, but I think I have it along with all the UK stuff on a CD I bought a few years ago. Just have to find it. Do you remember what the issue numbers were?

It's a text story from the 1987 Annual - you probably won't have it. It's well worth a read.

[Manchester Devil]

To add to the lack of clarity regarding the situtation during Megatron: Origin. Why, or rather, when has the position of 'Prime' been superceded after Nova Prime's disappearance? What did gave rise to the senate in the first place? Did Sentinel Prime just liked being a police chief or something?

Again, there are good bits here and there but they're being drowned in easter eggs. The funerals of Fastback and Bumper are a good example. And why does Starscream look like he is blushing when Megatron said "You could say..." Speaking of Starscream, unless Holmes is going to pull a rabbit out of his hat, why is he playing "naff traitor" to Megatron's "naff leader" cartoon act so soon after joining him as a fresh faced, starstruk fan?

I admit I grined at Dead End being optimistic, nice to see him not being the misery gates negative nazi he would become.

The start of the comic is ridiculous. The fact that Soundwave had a rub sign but the three seekers didn't is just asking for Sentinel Prime and his forces to exploit this little loophole.

*Knock, knock*
Swindle: Word to the...
*Sentinel's Prime's security forces barge their way in, guns blazing*
Swindle: Er... So, let's deal?
Prowl: You're nicked, son.

Oops.

State Games, this is not. Oh, and the colouring, especially on pages 12, 13, 15, 17 and 19 is cack.

[Best First]

This Sentinel guy makes Rodimus look like Optimus!

crap - i am even laughing at youre jokes now. Spot on my son.

Sentinal Prime is one of the biggest problems with this series, much like Anakin Skywalker he comes across as a dick from day one and so any sense of heroic fall on his part or drama to the confrontation between him and Megs is totally absent.

yaya i think the problems with the things you list are that most of them have been either done better or are so spectaculalrly implicit in TF lore anyway that the fact we are merely being shown them, with very little drama or character evolution, makes this whole series a pointless exercuse.

[Metal Vendetta]

yaya i think the problems with the things you list are that most of them have been either done better or are so spectaculalrly implicit in TF lore anyway that the fact we are merely being shown them, with very little drama or character evolution, makes this whole series a pointless exercuse.

I'm not sure if that's a trademark Besty tpyo, or a specially coined new phrase, but "pointless exercuse" also had me laughing

Hmmm, I'm very guilty of "writing more about bad TF comics than good ones" syndrome here. Perhaps it's the disappointment, after all Megatron is probably my favourite character in all fiction and this should be his finest hour - instead, well it's better than Back From The Dead and most of Megs's cartoon exploits, but it's not even I, Robot Master! in terms of characterisation.

I do love I, Robot Master! though. It's the coal-eating scene that does it for me. That and Donny lighting a fag off of Megs's foot. Great stuff.

[Best First]

i don't do exercuse as i have a keyboard injury.

I am totally the same on having more to say when stuff is bad. I have always been abit that way inclined i think but i have definitely ben encouraged by some of the apologist remarks i have seen in regard to this series ("i had to read it three times to get it but i think its really good").

i think that's one of my other main gripes, i think the core IDW series has been an example of a genuinly good comic, regardless of content. This on the other hand will not win anyone over to the franschise and i suspect may drive some people away.

On top of that there are just so many missed opportunities - all these first meetings and just no motivations behind any of it, no real charcatre interplay - imagine seeing the peer pressure put on Thundercracker to join up, Megs using Soundwaves abilities to manipulate things in his favour etc etc.

[Scraplet]

Usually, I get excited when my TF comics arrive. Normally, I go and hide away, ignoring my own children for half an hour when a TF comic arrives.

Today, when I opened the envelope and Megatron #3 fell out, I couldn't be arsed to read it. I realised I REALLY didn't care. For TFs that has only ever happened with crossovers and some elements of DW (eg micromasters).

I've just forced myself to read it. I've re-skimmed it twice. I've no idea what the **** just happened from page 5 onwards, other that the moment of clarity with Megatrons speach.

IDW, this is cack. Emvee, you've summed it up perfectly. Although you could obviously make out a lot more than me. Reading your post told me more about the plot than reading the ******* comic did!

[Darth Aux]

[Hound]

My hands were all sticky from all of the fanwank spooge drawn into the pages.

I feel dirty

[Metal Vendetta]

Holmes has popped up to address people's questions about this over at IDW:
http://idwpublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtop ... &start=135

I do respect a man that will post in a thread about his comic that has garnered such criticism.

[Brendocon]

The whole story is just the Star Wars prequels, as done by Dreamwave, as far as I can tell.

And it's wank.

I saw the preview art for the first five pages online and thought "that looks rubbish, maybe it'll be decent with the dialogue overlaid."

And lo and behold - no dialogue at all for about 90% of it!

Utterly pointless page-wasting rubsign guff!

Which has the knock-on effect of "teh dramatic cliffhanger" being rushed into three tiny indistinct panels at the end. Losing all drama.

Well, I assume it lost all drama... I actually have no idea what's going on for most of it.

And I really don't care.

I'm going to pretend this story doesn't exist.