How brazen and shameless is the modern paedophile?

[snarl]

Well take a look at this card here.



What sort of sick individual puts things like this up in a telephone box?

What sort of thing was going through his mind?

[Kaylee]

More to the point he expected it to work?

It's got to be a joke.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

Is this from Brass Eye.

Oh heres a good debate, in the game second Life, an big MMO style game, pedos have been using the game to simulate sex with under age avatars?

someone pointed out that we simulate killing people in video-games every day, so how is this wrong?

[spiderfrommars]

I was desperate. I needed the money.

[IronHide]

Who still wears tighty whities?

[Shanti418]

I've got no problem with pedophiles as long as they don't act on their urges.



As far as the Ad, it seems like a fake.



And no, I don't think that 2nd life stuff is wrong, either. It's not real, people. Pedophiles want to have sex with kids. That's the way it is. Just like how I want to have sex with women, and zoophiles want to have sex with animals. So, there are three options:
1) Let them have sex with kids
2) Repress and punish them so they go crazy and sublimate their desires into other equally anti social things (Freud isn't ALL bad)
3) Let them act our their desires through fantasies, either imagined or simulated.


Of these, I think 3 is by far the most preferable.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

I guess the argument could be that whilst I kill people in FPS, in real life I dont want to do the same, so acting out the scenario in game doesnt bare any relationship to my real life.
but
A pedo acting out a child abuse scenario in a game, and having other pedos around to make him feel ok about what he is doing, might reinforce the idea in his mind that he can get away with it real life, just like in the game world.

Still i find the argument interesting and one im sure will arrise over the comming years as more MMO style games are made with the ablity to act out fantasys.

[Guest]

That is just sick.

A dude with a cameltoe.

[The Last Autobot]

2) Repress and punish them so they go crazy and sublimate their desires into other equally anti social things (Freud isn't ALL bad)
3) Let them act our their desires through fantasies, either imagined or simulated.


Of these, I think 3 is by far the most preferable.

You can use "2" but not like a psychologist trainee who only had a mail education. Like in all problems you must attack the causes. And in each person they vary. Not say "will punish you cause is bad" but adress the real issue.

3 would at the end cause more troubles.

[Best First]

har. i love that anyone is even questioing the reality of the first post.

hee hee.

[Shanti418]

I guess the argument could be that whilst I kill people in FPS, in real life I dont want to do the same, so acting out the scenario in game doesnt bare any relationship to my real life.
but
A pedo acting out a child abuse scenario in a game, and having other pedos around to make him feel ok about what he is doing, might reinforce the idea in his mind that he can get away with it real life, just like in the game world.

True, but like you said, that same argument can be applied to killing people in a video game, or joining a Neo Nazi MB.

You can use "2" but not like a psychologist trainee who only had a mail education. Like in all problems you must attack the causes. And in each person they vary. Not say "will punish you cause is bad" but adress the real issue.

But what I'm saying is, IS it a problem? I mean, yes, having sex with kids is something that we've all agree we find deviant and when people do that thing, we want to enforce heterosexual norms by punishing them. What is the "real issue"? I equate pedophilia with other alternative sexualities, from fetishes we all find obscene (sex with dead people/animals) to ones that many people enjoy (bondage, foot worships, panty stuff), but they all exist on a continuum, and they are most commonly formed, IMHO, by experinces in childhood. I just think the fallacy of psychology sometimes is the idea that, "Well, they LEARNED it, so they can just UNLEARN it! Or at the very least practice extreme self censorship where they police their own thoughts, let alone their actions."

3 would at the end cause more troubles.

Why is that? People are going to fantacize. You can't, or at least shouldn't, monitor the thoughts of people. If I did everything I ever fantasized about, I'd be in jail too. lol If every person who fantasized about having sex with kids actually DID have sex with kids, there would be millions more people locked up for child sex abuse.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

sex with minors is wrong because u are taking advantage of a child who doesnt know any better.

Bondage, foot fetishs, panty fetishs etc... do not require someone in a postion of authority to befriend the innocent.

theres a big devide.

[Dead Head]

How brazen and shameless is the modern paedophile?
Well take a look at this card here.

Sick.

Is that man mental, or is his brain wrong?

[The Last Autobot]

But what I'm saying is, IS it a problem? I mean, yes, having sex with kids is something that we've all agree we find deviant and when people do that thing, we want to enforce heterosexual norms by punishing them. What is the "real issue"? .[/I equate pedophilia with other alternative sexualities, from fetishes we all find obscene (sex with dead people/animals) to ones that many people enjoy (bondage, foot worships, panty stuff), but they all exist on a continuum, and they are most commonly formed, IMHO, by experinces in childhood. I just think the fallacy of psychology sometimes is the idea that"Well, they LEARNED it, so they can just UNLEARN it! Or at the very least practice extreme self censorship where they police their own thoughts, let alone their actions."

In all the cases you put there is no "other". If you cant see that sex with a minor (through or not through manipulation) is at least "wrong" then I cant do anything.

Aside from that. You dont seem to know too much of psychology. Its far more complex than a learn/unlearn scenario we are not dealing with hard drives or computer programs.

Why is that? People are going to fantacize. You can't, or at least shouldn't, monitor the thoughts of people. If I did everything I ever fantasized about, I'd be in jail too. lol If every person who fantasized about having sex with kids actually DID have sex with kids, there would be millions more people locked up for child sex abuse.

You are taking things from a normal POV. But, If you are a paedophile who is encouraged to fantasize in that way you are unconsciusly being given the "permit" that doing that things are "ok" (You wont and cant change something that your perceive is healthy/normal and in that case the fantasies will be more than a restraint a training to be a better paedophile). Fantasizing is not the problem is who does it and with what background.

[Shanti418]

sex with minors is wrong because u are taking advantage of a child who doesnt know any better.

Agreed, which is why I say that they shouldn't actually HAVE sex with children. But I think people should be allowed to fantasize/masturbate to whatever the hell they want. People have equal ability to seperate violent fantasy as they do sexual fantasy. I was saying it was akin to fetishism in the sense of it's a sexual practice that is rooted in formative development that's not easily accessed. You could no more convince a pedophile to not like kids than you could tell a guy who likes big breasts to stop being attracted to them.

Aside from that. You dont seem to know too much of psychology. Its far more complex than a learn/unlearn scenario we are not dealing with hard drives or computer programs.

Not only am I NOT a psychology expert, I'm a sociology expert, so I come from a diametrically opposed position. But I didn't mean to imply that it's not complex. And if you'd care to share a more detailed psychological course of action about this issue, like the actual treatment a psychologist would do in order to validate your position, I'm more than all ears.

You are taking things from a normal POV. But, If you are a paedophile who is encouraged to fantasize in that way you are unconsciusly being given the "permit" that doing that things are "ok" (You wont and cant change something that your perceive is healthy/normal and in that case the fantasies will be more than a restraint a training to be a better paedophile). Fantasizing is not the problem is who does it and with what background.

See, I have no problem with that position, except that I could turn it around, substitute violence for sex, and all of a sudden most people (well, most US people lol) would find that position to be unteneble. I don't understand why fantasizing about illegal sexual activity is so much more dangerous and encouraging than fantasizing about OTHER illegal activity.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

Agreed, which is why I say that they shouldn't actually HAVE sex with children. But I think people should be allowed to fantasize/masturbate to whatever the hell they want. People have equal ability to seperate violent fantasy as they do sexual fantasy. I was saying it was akin to fetishism in the sense of it's a sexual practice that is rooted in formative development that's not easily accessed. You could no more convince a pedophile to not like kids than you could tell a guy who likes big breasts to stop being attracted to them. .

Isnt it a male human trait to like breasts because its a maternal instinct?

If I were to fantasize about big breasts, then I can probably find a women with big breasts, a like minded adult, who i can share my fantasy with, but a pedo can share his fantasy with a child, and we know thats wrong for reaons x,y,z

I dont know much about this but if you keep fantasizing, isnt there some point where u might take that fantasy a step further?, and with most fetishs, these steps can be taken with other like minded adults, where as pedophilia can only be taken up witha child?

[The Last Autobot]

Not only am I NOT a psychology expert, I'm a sociology expert, so I come from a diametrically opposed position. But I didn't mean to imply that it's not complex. And if you'd care to share a more detailed psychological course of action about this issue, like the actual treatment a psychologist would do in order to validate your position, I'm more than all ears.

From your posts you seem to think that paedophilia is only a sexual matter:

Pedophiles want to have sex with kids. That's the way it is

So after "fantasizing, you satisfy the urge". But the reality is that paedophilia is more a dominance/power driven situation against a person who cant properly defend or adress the situation (the child). If you use fantasizing as a treatment what you do is allow the symptom and not adress the issues behind in the paedophile (prior abuse, low esteem, impotence, etc).

Moreso a paedophile is not a situation offender (where the environment gives me a hand to do a criminal act or a stress situation or where your primary object of affection is an adult) but someone who actively try to offend (because thats no something "wrong"). In each paedohile (who offends) you must see what are the reasons behind the act.

Sadly Paedophilia has a very high incidence of repeated offenses.

See, I have no problem with that position, except that I could turn it around, substitute violence for sex, and all of a sudden most people (well, most US people lol) would find that position to be unteneble. I don't understand why fantasizing about illegal sexual activity is so much more dangerous and encouraging than fantasizing about OTHER illegal activity.

See? You think is only a "sex issue" when the motives are more complex. The act is the sympton of the problems that underlie in the psyque of the offender. And the issue is not the fantasizing but who DOES IT. But, well lets take your example but in a "no normal situation". If I am a serial killer and fantasize about violence, there will be a moment in which you will try to enact the situation. Because like in a paedophile its not only simply about "violence" or "sex".

[sprunkner]

This is an interesting post. Does the fantasy lead to the act, or can it be separated from the act?

I choose... both of you! There are pedophiles out there who are going to act on their desires because they are mentally deranged and can't separate fantasy from reality. There may be some people out there who can keep their fantasies about sex with kids separate from real life.

But there's a lot of other things to consider. Is pedophilia just a fetish? Or is it rooted in a basic psychological problem, perhaps a lack of ability to recognize basic limitations? If we could establish that every person who wanted to **** a kid also had a problem with the fantasy/reality thing, then TLA would be right. But if we can find just one person who wants to **** kids and never acts on it except in Second Life, then Shanti is right. For the moment. Until they, perhaps in support of TLA's argument, crack.

My pop has a PhD in this stuff (psychosexual behavior). Hold on while I ask.

[The Last Autobot]

When did Aaron post in the topic?

[sprunkner]

Ooops... ah, Peru, Malaysia, it's easy to do.

[Kaylee]

Ooops... ah, Peru, Malaysia, it's easy to do.

Being confused for Aaron is an insult where I come from