The usual life crisis stuff

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:04 am

I don't know if I've ever done a real "life crisis" post here; anyway, things have pretty much gone to **** lately in the sprunk house...

i have this crappy job as basically a bouncer for disabled kids who act up in school... i just follow them around during the day and get hit a lot whenever they want to hit someone. today they told me I can't take a lunch break because the district doesn't want the kids to be unsupervised. it's pure ****... what the [composite word including 'f*ck'] is wrong with giving someone a goddamn lunch break? I hate this stupid job and it pays pure ****. we can't afford to move out of the in-laws' place. the in-laws are driving me nuts. but it's all i've got. I won't be able to pay for the baby's food and stuff since I can't support the two of us on this pay.

plus the in-laws having marital problems too. my father-in-law is apparently an abusive [composite word including 'f*ck'] and he's held off until now, but last week he went ballistic. things quieted down now, but my wife got involved and told her mom to report the stuff... it's been really awkward.

the worst part is the stupid ******* Mormon church... i hope a ******* comet strikes Salt Lake City and wipes out all the church leaders. i know my wife's still pissed that I left... as if i can really control whether or not my faith evaporated. it always comes up and it always ends up with us talking about the D word... it's a mind-controlling psycho environment where everything in life has to follow one mode of thought... i've been trying so hard lately to go to church and avoid the Mormon no-nos and at least act like a Mormon though I could never believe in that crazy **** again... she still thinks we should split up. what the [composite word including 'f*ck']? seriously, that ******* **** bitch-ass church can go to hell. they have to make their beliefs and their way of life more important than everything. they act so damn "family-values" as if everything is about the family, but the minute someone in the family disagrees with the Organization, they're ******* blacklisted. I hope Joseph Smith is burning in hell with Brigham Young if there even is a hell. if there even is a god he's one sick bastard.

Eline · Post by **Eline** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:56 am

you need a hug, and a cup of tea

*hug*

is there any chance of you getting a better job? Or your wife?

Take care, I hope things work out.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:03 am

hmm. sorry dude.

i'm going to try and be reatrained here because reading that i find myself getting quite angry on your behalf.

Workwise - is there anything in particular that's limiting you to that kin of work? You seem like a smart guy. Secondly, certainly here, breaks are mandatory, i'd be inclined to look into associated legeslation - i mean what happens when you want to go for a crap?

Homewise - the in laws stuff, do you have an option to live with your folks instead? While not having your own place is obvioulsy hard you may also find that having in laws around is actually quite the help when the kid comes.

Relationship wise - is the religion issue the sole thing between you? If so, well, i know this doesn't help much, but she really needs to get some perspective - from what i saw she clrealy loves you and not only that but you have a kid on the way - i can't imagine any 'loving god' would want to divide a family over their individual beliefs.

i wish i could be more helpful - take care bud, use us as much as you need to, i've found posting about stuff is a good way to help think things through in the past.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:16 am

sorry to hear this sprunkdude, i don't know what to say about the religion thing, it's not my area i'm afraid (nor the in-laws). but the work thing - i'm sure you must be legally entitled to breaks surely!
Listen to Besters (for once) and look into it.

Sorry i can't be of more help/support mate, but if you need to chat about stuff, i'm all ears!

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:34 am

I can only reinforce what's gone before on the job front - breaks should be mandatory (in the UK every four and a half hours, I think) and if you have to work through your lunch hour you should be compensated accordingly.

On the religion front, I don't really know what to suggest, I'd hope that you could leave religion at the front door but in practice (as GD has shown many, many times) the issue will come up again. And again. And again. And especially now you two have a child to raise, there will be a whole minefield of issues to address.

Incidentally, what's the D word? Damned? Devil? Darwin?
[edit] Oh hang on, I'm being dumb

Sadly, one of the features of religions (particularly "newer" churches, like the Mormons) is apostasy, and it sounds like you're going through a bad case of it now. I've never experienced it myself (though when I left Youth Fellowship, they used to pray about me behind my back...some of them still do, apparently) but I have friends who've been through exactly the same thing you're going through right now. One guy left the Jehovah's Witnesses and discovered that his friends wouldn't talk to him any more. Another friend was told by her husband that if she didn't rejoin the church it was over between them, though strangely, her pastor understood exactly what she was going through.

The best advice I can give is to be patient, tolerant and understanding, and to ask Chrissy to be the same. Try to get her to understand that this is a big thing for you and that you're serious, but that it doesn't mean that you've changed the way you think about her or your marriage or your child. Also let her know that you understand her point of view as well - after all, you shared it until recently - so you can empathise with the feelings she's having. Or try and get away from the issue entirely - surely there are things you can do together that are fairly inexpensive and don't involve religion? Bowling? Walks in the park? Movies? Dogging?

I wish you all the best and I think you're a hero for even going through the motions of being a Mormon at a time like this. I hate to bring him up again, but Richard Dawkins provides a list of support groups at his website for people going through apostasy, and http://seattleatheists.org/ looks like your closest one...I hesitate to suggest it because it may make the situation worse if you and Chrissy have separate support groups (freethinkers on one side and the Mormon church on the other) but sometimes you might like to know that you're not alone in all this and that there are people there to support you.

Mostly off-topic:
I tried Googling "dealing with apostasy" but found a wealth of information from the exact opposite viewpoint - mostly Christians and Muslims talking about how to stamp it out. This was a little gem theat cropped up, though:
http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/016303.html

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:45 pm

Re: Job - Yeah, they should have to give you a break if you work more than four hours in a row. Of course, that doesn't mean much when they're NOT giving you a break, and your economics doesn't really allow you to raise as much of a stink as it deserves. All I can basically say is that if it's a **** job and a **** wage, you should be able to find a better or equally ****** job somewhere else where they don't walk all over you.

Re: In Laws - Since it's your sister's family, and she's already trying to deal with it, best minimize your participation. But it's a good chance to back up your wife, and show her the support and love that you're giving her, even when things like domestic abuse pop up in her life.

Re: Marriage - It's going to be tough, no doubt. How long has it been since you stopped being a Mormon? You can see from her point of view: Here's something that she's been raised in, been steeped in, that's a huge, giant part of her life. Something she's based her entire life and belief system around. And not only are you saying you aren't involved in it anymore, but that it's all ********. It could definitely create some unease. But, as has been said before, if she's half the woman you thought she was when you married her, she'll accept it and still love you because she married YOU, not person #4893948 of the Mormon Church. But it's going to be a sticky issue, not easily resolved, that will come up again when your child arrives.

Good luck, sir. I love you and we're all always here for ya.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:13 pm

I thought I would stand up for myself cause I sound like a real monster here.
Things have been really hard that’s very true. I wish that we weren’t living with my parents.
I want Sprunkner to feel that he is being filled spiritually and fully by the person he is with, it’s not really working that way when it comes to us. I asked him to respect my beliefs it just seems fair. I support him in what he believes I encourage him to buy the books he wants and to meditate and I have gone to several ex-Mormon events with him. I just want him to stop going to anti-Mormon web sites. I don’t think what he believes is evil I just wish he would do the same with me. I don’t want him to be LDS (Mormon). He keeps telling me that he is LDS, but I want to be what he believes. It’s really not working with us he believes that these problems are all from the church, that’s just ridiculous, this is between Spencer and I and we have had no outside church influences (besides Spencer’s own family).

On the topic of jobs, I’ve been interviewing the last three weeks and have had no luck. I have applied for thirty jobs and have had only three people respond. I'm waiting till we move to find a grocery store or something close by to work at. I have people who have tried to hook Spencer up with a job and he doesn’t want any help he likes doing what he does. He wants to continue to do social work, which pays with popcorn and stickers so that’s just how it’s going to be.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:15 pm

quick correction

He keeps telling me that he is LDS, but I want to be what he believes.

I meant I want him to be what he believes

Post by **Best First** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:29 pm

i don't think anyone is accusing you of being a monster, although equally there are two sides to every story and i guess we all just know sprunk better and are inclined to sympathise/empahise as you do with friends when they are down.

i think one of the hard things with beliefes is people often seem to confuse someone rspecting your right to a belief with respecting that belief in and of itself, which isn't really going to be the case unless their beliefs are the same as yours. if that makes any sense. I guess what i am saying is all you can ever ask someoen to do is respect your right to a beliefe, asking them to respect something they don't believe in is a step too far because you are really asking them to lie to you.

That's how is see it anyway.

From what you have both said the Mormon church does sound quite particular and i can see how that would create tensions when one of you left it, conversely it can also be easier to blame an outside source when that's not the case - you need to figure it out between the two of you.

I hope you two crazy kids work things out. All the best and lots of love.

and good luck with the jobs.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:53 pm

The other side chipping in-- that's a first for this kind of post.

I think Mrs. Bumblemus is probably more angry with me than you guys.

but we've talked.

Thanks for the help, everyone. The difficult thing in these situations is always feeling like I don't have anyone to talk to. Most people are too close to the situation and although my in-laws aren't perfect, they pay our bills and give us food, so I never want to disparage them... they've been so nice and done the most they could. in case anyone is wondering, living with family will totally unbalance a marriage in some respects. One person has a big instant support group and the other has nothing. We went through a reverse version when we stayed with my folks for a while.

the religion thing just sucks. really. bad. there are no Reformed or Conservative Mormons like there are Jews... as you said, Rob, it's too young for that. if there were I would probably go. i'm proud of my heritage (well, some parts of it) and i'm proud of a lot of things i've done in the name of faith. i remember being a missionary and teaching adults to read, or being a role model for boys with single moms. i remember doing service at a soup kitchen and feeding the homeless or building exhibits in a museum. even the door-to-door thing occasionally worked out. sometimes in autumn we would go door-to-door and offer to clean up people's leaves for free. i remember some older ladies who were completely shocked, cuz they had no one else to do that for them.

but i just can't believe all of it anymore. i still pray, though i'm not sure anyone hears... mostly i meditate to get my "spiritual highs." it's honestly easier personally than trying to believe as intricate and complicated a system as Mormonism. this issue keeps coming up, though, and it always turns into an ugly fight. most of my friends who are recovering mormons with believing spouses say that this stage should last around a year, then calm down...

but for now it sucks. it's hard not to think that "this wouldn't have happened without the ******* Church!" because it wouldn't have. but there are also money problems. and an unexpected pregnancy. and my general gloominess. but the heart of our problem is the interfaith dynamic. it's very, very, very, very hard to do.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:39 pm

well I wish you both the best - it seems you've both got some adjusting to do but as long as you're talking and not fighting that's the main thing.

Post by **Kaylee** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:29 pm

DH: Board rules state please deal with issues with moderators through private message.

I hope things work out for you Sprunkner- maybe a little counselling might help? No reflection on either of you and I'm not saying you need therapy, just that having an impartial third party to listen to and adjudicate proceedings means you can both talk things out and work things through reasonably confident that you've both been heard and had your fair say.

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:29 pm

Hope you and your mrs can deal with the matter. But from my POV just by talking and dealing with the matter (both of you here). There is a way of solving things. There is a concern that everything should end well.

Talking about the job, I think there are many ones you can do, so just look for other options while you are there.

Oh and just as Karl pointed out, you could seek for counseling we can be for you if you need us, but sometimes is better to have help in a more direct manner and with both people involved.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:21 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:DH: Board rules state please deal with issues with moderators through private message.

I hope things work out for you Sprunkner- maybe a little counselling might help? No reflection on either of you and I'm not saying you need therapy, just that having an impartial third party to listen to and adjudicate proceedings means you can both talk things out and work things through reasonably confident that you've both been heard and had your fair say.

I get three free therapy sessions through my work. I would really like to take them, I'm just really busy... and generally scared of the money involved. I've been depressed for a long time and I don't want to see a therapist who is trying to clear things up in three sessions, and then I don't want to have to deal with paying for it, as my insurance from work is not up and running yet.... bitch bitch bitch, thanks for listening and I wouldn't blame anyone for skimming this stuff...

You all know how it goes... either you see a great therapist who really helps, or you leave feeling worse than before. it's a stupid attitude but it's also a valid concern... i saw a couple of really ****** therapists at one point... back to the Mormon thing for a moment, I also saw a couple guys completely fall apart from the stress of the missionary life. the church therapist they saw was ******. Curiously, the church therapist I saw was great (which I now suspect had something to do with his Taoist background).

and I appreciate the policing even if DH doesn't. it means a lot to have a place to vent and friends to vent to. i came here and posted this in order to hear from people I trust and know well, even though it's a public forum; it's akin, for me, to meeting some friends in a pub. i've been on this site every day for almost three years, and most of the people here have been posting with the same regularity the whole time. even some of the people i regularly disagree with i know well and consider friends. but I don't know you that well, DH. given your comments to Yaya about his religion, who is a person I respect though I disagree with his ideas, i'd be inclined to think that Besty is doing the right thing. sorry.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:44 am

Well, if you were intending to change this topic into another diatribe about the evils of religion,

to Besty.

Sprunk, vent away here. We're not a therapist, but as you've said, we've all done the "life crisis" post before, so we can all be of some help.

It seems to me like sorting out your feelings about Mormonism would be a good place to start. You've told plenty of good AND bad anecdotes about it. If the religion thing is really the burr in the saddle (texas expression!) of your marriage, then that's what you should figure out first. All the other stresses of life are a lot easier to deal with when you know you've unequivocably got at least one peson in your corner.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:15 am

Sprunker:

TBH I'd steer very clear of church counsellors/therapists. I appreciate that is a huge generalisation which is probably unfair to some very good therapists out there, but I still say you are best of with someone who has no 'agenda' to push (accepting of course the good therapists which I'm sure are there would do no such thing, it just saves the risk).

If you feel you have depression then naturally you must get help... its very easy to work yourself into a sort of self-imposted limbo of 'oh but I can't do it because of X and Y but I'll do it as soon as Z is sorted out'. I don't mean to be unfair to your personal circumstances in the slightest, it sounds like you've got things to deal with which are preventing you speaking to the people you need to, unfortunately you just need to rise above it long enough to get it sorted out and get where you need to go.

I think my IM details are around somewhere but I'm no substitute for a professional.

DH-
FFS mate, give it a rest.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:52 am

Love ya Sprunk. It's always been obvious the two of you are very much in love. Hope it all works out for you.