Another view on Dreamwave's TF/G.I.Joe

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:08 pm

I finally got around to reading the Dreamwave TF/G.I.JOe crossover that came out . . . . in 03 or 04? Not sure.

I remember fans on many boards becoming upset with the DW's crossover, mainly due to the art of Jae Lee. Now, I have actually read all of the crossover offering from Devil's Due and enjoyed them. But I understand that DD's crossovers are really told from a "Cartoon What if . . " perspective. Very enjoyable if you liked the cartoons and didn't take it too seriously.

But DW's series was something different. I suppose that they were trying to write a "grown-up" TF/G.I.Joe comic for an aging audience. This trick doesn't usually work as even aging children of the 1980's merely wish to recapture the magic of childhood. We don't want to see our childhood heroes grow up with us. Case in point: Wildstorm's second Thundercats comic threw fans into a future where the Wilykittens were sex slaves and it is implied that Cheetara was brutally raped. This is highly disturbing to most fans!!!

DW's crossover was not nearly as shocking as that example, but it did try to take a hardline, edgier approach to the toy lines, setting the story in pre-WWII history. With a few exceptions, the Joes have lost their colorful costumes in favor of regular military clothing. The only problem is that you have a tough time figuring out who is who.

Jae Lee's art is moody, creepy, and incredible . . . but it doesn't fit the sequential storytelling needs of a comic narrative. The art is very palatable when taken in small doses, but after spending 45 minutes with the trade, your eyes are tired and strained, and you are not exactly sure what has taken place.

The story is not strong, but it is straightforward: The Joes attack Cobra island. Don't get me wrong, there are several strong character interactions, like Scarlett "driving" Bumblbee. The Snake Eyes subplot is cool, but I did think that it was interesting how the ninja grabs a Knight's helmet instead of his recognizable mask . .. . but by the end of the series, it looks just like his modern mask.

All in all, I think that DW's one and only foray into the TF/Joe crossover story is a strong effort and a bold departure from the usual crossover story, but ultimately fell short in terms of plot.

By the by, does anyone know what DW had planned for their Vol. 2 of this series?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:11 pm

Volume 2 of the series would have been rather close to the plot of the upcoming Transformers movie.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:21 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:Volume 2 of the series would have been rather close to the plot of the upcoming Transformers movie.

Can you elaborate, please?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:23 pm

veritech wrote:
All in all, I think that DW's one and only foray into the TF/Joe crossover story is a strong effort and a bold departure from the usual crossover story, but ultimately fell short in terms of plot.

Pretty much my thoughts. I thought the first half was particularly good and I always liked the art. Other than War Within it was one of Dreamwave's more original ideas. The last issue was a bit lame but I've read worse.

veritech wrote:By the by, does anyone know what DW had planned for their Vol. 2 of this series?

Issue 1 came out. It was set in the 80s and had loose ties to the first volume (they were the same continuity) which was a nice twist.

Things were about to get farcical though. James/Adam had started writing it before they left the company. Then Sarracini was announced as the writer but Dreamwave folded before we saw anything from him.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:13 am

I thought I saw Snake Eyes on the cover of the first issue. If the mini was set in the 1980's but was set in the same continuity as Vol.1, then wouldn't that make Snake Eyes about 80, give or take a few years?

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:19 am

Nice to hear your thoughts on this series.

Bluntly, I really liked it...until the last issue, where, right in the middle of reading it, my dog accidentally pawed me on the side of the face, right under my ear and next to my jaw. I died instantly and ever since have not had fond memories of that issue.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:24 am

veritech wrote:I thought I saw Snake Eyes on the cover of the first issue. If the mini was set in the 1980's but was set in the same continuity as Vol.1, then wouldn't that make Snake Eyes about 80, give or take a few years?

Well we never found out, but either he was a really old ninja, or maybe it was his grandkid or something.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:17 am

KingMob wrote:Nice to hear your thoughts on this series.

Bluntly, I really liked it...until the last issue, where, right in the middle of reading it, my dog accidentally pawed me on the side of the face, right under my ear and next to my jaw. I died instantly and ever since have not had fond memories of that issue.

Man, i had a similar experience, except it was a small fly that hit in in that exact spot, killing me instantly.

My dad went on a massive rampage against fly's everywhere as a result but luckily my mum was on hand to use a plot device to kill our entire race to stop Dad trashing some flys.

Series 2 looked like it was going to be **** to be honest:
- Pat Lee art
- the gimmick was 'original modes and costumes'
- eevryone was going to someone's bloody grandkid as far as i could tell.
- Mick & Patyk rescripted by Sarracini - the horror! the horror! my eyes!

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:33 am

spiderfrommars wrote:
veritech wrote:I thought I saw Snake Eyes on the cover of the first issue. If the mini was set in the 1980's but was set in the same continuity as Vol.1, then wouldn't that make Snake Eyes about 80, give or take a few years?
Well we never found out, but either he was a really old ninja, or maybe it was his grandkid or something.

Ninjas don't age.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:15 pm

Brendocon wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:
veritech wrote:I thought I saw Snake Eyes on the cover of the first issue. If the mini was set in the 1980's but was set in the same continuity as Vol.1, then wouldn't that make Snake Eyes about 80, give or take a few years?
Well we never found out, but either he was a really old ninja, or maybe it was his grandkid or something.
Ninjas don't age.

I forgot about that. Explains Chuck Norris.

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:17 pm

Well, considering these crossovers have established Snake Eyes can kill Formies just by looking at them a bit oddly his age wouldn't matter in the first place...

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:49 pm

veritech wrote:
But DW's series was something different. I suppose that they were trying to write a "grown-up" TF/G.I.Joe comic for an aging audience. This trick doesn't usually work as even aging children of the 1980's merely wish to recapture the magic of childhood. We don't want to see our childhood heroes grow up with us. Case in point: Wildstorm's second Thundercats comic threw fans into a future where the Wilykittens were sex slaves and it is implied that Cheetara was brutally raped. This is highly disturbing to most fans!!!

Hey, I liked it... not all of it, but frankly even as a kid I never took THundercats seriously. This comic, and later, Dogs of War took them to a totally new angle and frankly I wouldn't have minded to see this storyline continued. It was a bit like G2, disturbing but cool.

The only problem is that you have a tough time figuring out who is who.

That was THE problem... Don did some amazing designs (one of them made me choose the nick Big Bertha Shockwave which I use ever since then) but we hardly saw any of them. Heck, Grimlock didn't even look like a WWI tank in the comics!

The Snake Eyes subplot is cool, but I did think that it was interesting how the ninja grabs a Knight's helmet instead of his recognizable mask . .. . but by the end of the series, it looks just like his modern mask.

It was a cool subplot for 2 issues, but after Storm-shadow refused dying and kept coming back... I kinda got bored. That shark was well,

WTF? Charcharodon ex machina?

Best First wrote:Man, i had a similar experience, except it was a small fly that hit in in that exact spot, killing me instantly.

My dad went on a massive rampage against fly's everywhere as a result but luckily my mum was on hand to use a plot device to kill our entire race to stop Dad trashing some flys.

You tell me, I died because they forgot to recalibrate me after every shot. The shame of it...

Btw, anyone wonders why Snake-eyes shattered the matrix to stop Bruticus, when Bruticus was BUILT by SS and Destro and had no spark? He could have continued working afterwards... :rollseyes:

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:43 pm

Personally, i think the reason that Snake Eyes and Cobra Commander are still in top shape is because they were both touched by the Matrix.

Ergo, just like that cybernetic whale in the Marvel-comic, they just can't die because of it.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:59 pm

That's an interesting theory... or it could be just another Cobra Commander...

(I'm not a big Joe fan, was it ever revealed what he looks like under the towel?)

But it was worth posting, for mentioning the cyber whale! Haven't heard about that thing for years! Frankly, I did like that issue, even if the art was bad.

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:27 am

I originally fell in love with the dark, realistic art and the gritty "Adult" story. I was dissapointed with the other comics because they seem to be focused on recapturing the tone of the original cartoon, and script-wise they were pitching the ball to the same age group. And even after all the Snake Eyes / Storm Shadow ninja fights that have been written over the years, this comic's version was the hands-down the best.

Unfortunately, the "dark" art that made it look so unique also made it illegible. There were several points in the story where the action becomes very confusing. Some pages are so dark that you can't actually see who the characters are or what action is taking place. Must be an easy way for Jae Lee to scrimp on labor.

The story was also too big for the format. This story deserved to be told in twelve issues, but was for some reason limited to six. This results in some panels where the action jumps and skips because there is just not enough space allocated to tell the whole story. This problem only adds to the confusing action, and the ending feels rushed.

So while it might get an A+ for concept, it gets a C- for the actual execution.

-J

the baron · Post by **the baron** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:14 pm

Fools. That was a superb piece of work.

So there.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:33 pm

the baron wrote:That was a superb piece of work.

Only up to 6th issue, though.

Blacksword · Post by **Blacksword** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:03 pm

Yeah, it was yet another casualty of DW's 6 issue mini policy. Nearly every story was six issues, G1 vol 1 &2, WW all volumes, etc. They forced writers to do nothing but six issue arcs which resulted in G1 vol1's mass of filler, vol2's intense over packing of material (complicated by the fact that they both had amateurish writers). In the crossover's case I'm tempted to think that the writer originally wanted to write something longer then had to wrap it up in one issue. Though the unending Snake-Eyes/Storm Shadow duel didn't help matters - it was extremely well done, but after a certain point just got ridiculous, even before the shark. That criticism aside, issues 1-5 were among the best material DW put out.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:39 am

Read the "next issue" blurb in issue 5 and then read issue 6. Notice that the two are nothing alike.

Blacksword · Post by **Blacksword** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:26 pm

Ha!

Well that just about confirms my suspicions. When I get the time I'll have to check that out for myself.

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Another view on Dreamwave's TF/G.I.Joe

Re: Another view on Dreamwave's TF/G.I.Joe

Re: Another view on Dreamwave's TF/G.I.Joe