BSG Season 2 (full spoilers)

Post by **Best First** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:37 pm

Dean Stockell is a ****ing Cyclon!!!!!

Sam Beckett will be well pissed off.

more when i am not der-unk.

ace.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:25 am

Why did I peek in here? I'm a prick.

(My box set arrives tommorow)

Post by **Best First** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:27 am

gah. sorry dude.

to be honest i had pretty much guessed he was from his first appearance, its not too much of a spoiler.

in the meanwhile i demand you return to this topic once you have watched it all.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:38 am

The Dean Stockwell stuff was so awesome.

"I know you're not a Cylon because I am and I've not seen you at the meetings."

"I'm not a... ah. Oh, okay then."

Or whatever it was.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:57 am

yeah, perfect.

i also like the notion that he was something of a dissidant who was not happy with how things had done.

Lucy Lawless is ace as well - very sinister. The epsiode on Capricia with the heros was fantastic, as was all the Pegsus stuff, er, and pretty much everything else. I don't think there is single bad episode to be honest, although i struggle with the Cylons motives at points.

Jumping a year was pretty bold, but i think they will pull if off, given that, well, they have knocked it out the park so far.

I'm sure they will do a better job of it than Chris Clairmont did anyway...

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:06 pm

Best First wrote:
in the meanwhile i demand you return to this topic once you have watched it all.

I will.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:12 pm

Best First wrote:i also like the notion that he was something of a dissidant who was not happy with how things had done.

The fact that not all of the Cylons blindly follow the notions they're taught helps make them a lot more sympathetic. Part of what I like about the way the series handles the Cylons is that there's none of this clear cut black-and-white evilness rubbish... underlined fantastically by the Pegasus stuff - be it Helo & the Chief vs Evil Rapist Torturer, or the way that tangible Number Six and figment Six have such differing perspectives.

Downloaded was absolutely superb in every way possible. The great war heroes are the most human of all of them...

i struggle with the Cylons motives at points.

I think it's one of those viewpoints that you can try to understand all you want, but you'll never really agree with it unless you're part of it. Which is apt, considering their motives are based in the fact that they caught Religion.

Give a group an oppressor to overthrow, a god to kill for and the belief that everything they do is justified because they're the superior race and the infidels must be removed... and just stand back and watch the genocide. It's a story as old as humanity - the struggle to purge the world of the infidels who behave like mindless savages and worship their false idols.

Agree about Lucy Lawless "They don't respect life like we do" as she's about to shoot somebody just sums up the whole thing perfectly.

Black Market and Skar were probably the episodes I enjoyed least... but they still kick the **** out of Smallville....

Post by **Best First** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:40 pm

I think Scar would have sat better in the first half of the season or towards the end of season one, but it had some interesting stuff in it for Kara. Cat is an annoying cow though.

The contrast between the buddy buddy pilots and the sweetness and lite civilians of the original is amazing though.

Blackmarket was a bit wired wasn't it? Kind of felt like i had missed something before hand. Still all the usual tension and morl ambiguity though.

in terms of their motives - the religion aspect is certainly interesting. I guess its more the 'why' of wiping out humanity and sunsequently the why of the nculear bomb and the repersuit.

also how much they are interlinked - the apparition of six seems to know an awful lot but if stuff is changing at home does she know? Loved the Baltar whitch arounf though.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:59 pm

Downloaded is a stunning epsiode. It pretty much changes the way you feel about everything. I was astounded by that episode

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:00 pm

Best First wrote: i struggle with the Cylons motives at points.

Actually I almost sympathise with them! At numerous points Admiral Adama and Laura Roslin have been shown in far from a pleasant light, and the whole initial Pegasus thing hinted that the human races' morals were dipping lower than the Cylons (an ace set of episodes they were... "Frak You" "You're not my type"!)

Best First wrote:Jumping a year was pretty bold, but i think they will pull if off, given that, well, they have knocked it out the park so far.

Yeah, I gather this wasn't popular with fans, but it was a nice way of freshening things up long before they had a chance to get stale. And normally if that sort of thing did happen, it would be at the start of a season, so a nice twist.

Hound wrote:Downloaded is a stunning epsiode. It pretty much changes the way you feel about everything. I was astounded by that episode

I came away from it pretty confused. For that ep to make sense either a)Number Six is mental, or b) Baltar is a Cylon. ?? EDIT, or , er, 3) Gauis was mad all along.

I just want to add that Edward James Olmos and Mary McDonnell are fantastic actors and really add to the gravitas of the whole thing. Plus Baltar is one of the most entertaining characters I've seen in TV in recent times. But the whole thing suffers like a lot of recent TV series do these days with long running arcs (24, Lost) - a tendency to really pad things out sometimes with really contrived decisions (in season 1 for instance, why the hell would Baltar not reveal that Boomer was a Cylon?)

Brilliant TV show tho! I watched Season 2 in the space of 3 days!

Post by **Best First** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:10 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:in season 1 for instance, why the hell would Baltar not reveal that Boomer was a Cylon?

cos he was worried she might finger him as the guy who had given them access to everything?

the relationship between six and Baltar is ace but there are so many versions of six involved its a tad confusing, espcially the projections of each other, i'm wondering if there is going to be an actual explanation for them seeing each other or if we are just supposed to accept that they are both a bit mental.

Agree about McDonnel and Olmos. Fantastic stuff.

The whole 'does the human race deserve to survive' is a question that we should probably ask ourselves, isn't it? Love the relevance. Er, and the spaceships, natch.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:31 pm

Best First wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:in season 1 for instance, why the hell would Baltar not reveal that Boomer was a Cylon?
cos he was worried she might finger him as the guy who had given them access to everything?

Well that Boomer still thought she was a human and didn't know about his treachery I thought.

Something else - I would've thought one of the first things Baltar would have mentioned in his presidential campaign should have been: "I've discovered a cure for cancer!" Worth a vote or two for that alone...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:04 am

Ah, but if Baltar revealed Boomer as a Cylon, how could he be sure her programming wouldn't kick in? He had no real way of knowing how much she was aware of, or how she'd respond to it.

The Baltar/Six stuff is genius, if a tad confusing. The obvious explanation (to me) is the manifestation of guilt... but then that doesn't explain how Phantom Six seems able to predict the future. Phantom Baltar does seem to just be Six's conscious atm, though...

Then again, who knows quite what happens when a Cylon and human get caught in the wave of a nuclear explosion together? Whacky fun. Me like.

Currently resisting buying the DVDs until the end of the month... I may not be able to hold out that long, though...

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:21 am

Brendocon wrote:Ah, but if Baltar revealed Boomer as a Cylon, how could he be sure her programming wouldn't kick in? He had no real way of knowing how much she was aware of, or how she'd respond to it.

Plus if he revealed all the Cylons in the fleet the story would kind of end.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:01 am

how many Cylons have been revealed now?

6?

Hot Mama number 6
Sharon
Xena
Al from Quantum Leap
Guy with bad taste in shirts
Guy who has an air of Verbal from Usual Suspects

oh!

and Doctor Dude

so seven - is that right?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:14 am

So that leaves 5 more!

And is there a leader yet to be revealed?

Perhaps played by Dirk Benedict?

As for copies, they're can't be many Sharons left after she blew up that ship.

And the Usual Suspects guy is deaded for good right?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:26 am

spiderfrommars wrote:And the Usual Suspects guy is deaded for good right?

Nope. There's lots and lots of each of them. The specific one off of the pilot may well be deaded, or the specific one that got flushed into space... but there's still other ones of the same design. There's one of them in the season 2 finale asking for Starbuck, so it may even be the same one as in Flesh & Bone.

I like the notion that the Cylons only bothered making 12 human versions on the basis that there's only really 12 human personality archetypes. Very astrological!

Yep, seven revealed so far:

Number Three / D'Anna Biers (Lucy Lawless)
Number Five / Aaron Doral (Matthew Bennett)
Number Six (Trish Helfer)
Number Eight / Sharon Valerii (Grace Park)

Leoben Conoy (Callum Keith Rennie)
Doctor Simon (Rick Worthy)
Brother Cavil (Dean Stockwell)

Must be ace to land a part as a Cylon. It's a guaranteed recurring role!

Post by **Best First** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:54 am

you woul think D'Anna Biers would have been revealed after Starbuck's Hunk o meat (whose name escapes me for now) was rescued from Caprica.

the only thing that does seem a bit forced is that Caprica is only populated by the Cylons we have seen as it were. I was going to say that this coudl be justified in case a member of the resistance saw them but the above thinking buggers that up.

the notion of a leader is certainly interesting.

and now i hve a horrible urge to go a huntin' for season 3 spoilers.

edit, do people know about the spin off?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caprica_%28TV_series%29

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:07 pm

I've found scenes on Caprica (apart from the final shootout) consisently a bit dull. Especially in the first season. It also started off all futuristic but now they drive jeeps and VWs.

Brendocon wrote: The specific one off of the pilot may well be deaded, or the specific one that got flushed into space... but there's still other ones of the same design. There's one of them in the season 2 finale asking for Starbuck, so it may even be the same one as in Flesh & Bone.

Ah, I remembered wrongly then. I thought he was the last surviving copy which was why he didn't want to get sucked into space.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:10 pm

Best First wrote:you woul think D'Anna Biers would have been revealed after Starbuck's Hunk o meat (whose name escapes me for now) was rescued from Caprica.

Does Mr Starbuck know about D'Anna in the fleet, though? I'm sure that if he saw her on a news report or something, he'd out her in a second...

the only thing that does seem a bit forced is that Caprica is only populated by the Cylons we have seen as it were.

Yeah, that irked me a bit, too. I was all psyched for "yes - and this is where we meet loads more Cylons and get to spot them in the fleet!" but noooo. Still, I let it off on the grounds that the episode was Teh Awesome. Would have been the most sensible place to meet some new faces, though/

edit, do people know about the spin off?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caprica_%28TV_series%29

I've seen mention of it but haven't looked into it in any detail. Will investigate the Wiki later this aft!

Post by **Best First** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:14 pm

Brendocon wrote:
Yeah, that irked me a bit, too. I was all psyched for "yes - and this is where we meet loads more Cylons and get to spot them in the fleet!" but noooo. Still, I let it off on the grounds that the episode was Teh Awesome. Would have been the most sensible place to meet some new faces, though

conversely though it was nice to see LL with a beefed up part.

the wiki stuff is pretty spoiler free - just the basic premise.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:28 pm

Ah, it's not actually gone into production or confirmed or anything yet, then.

Be interesting if it comes off. Nice to see they're going down the sensible prequel route and setting it 50 years beforehand... ergo entirely new set of characters. Difficult to pull off a prequel where everybody knows where all the characters end up.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:32 pm

Would be sweet if we got to see the Cylons in their 1970s guise.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:05 pm

well, based on the pilot that's what they would theoretically have to go for.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:13 pm

Brendocon wrote:The obvious explanation (to me) is the manifestation of guilt... but then that doesn't explain how Phantom Six seems able to predict the future.

And become tangible and visible for others at will. Hrm.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:28 pm

I like the sound of that spinoff. I hope they can reel in a couple of top actors again though.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:34 pm

Ozz wrote:
Brendocon wrote:The obvious explanation (to me) is the manifestation of guilt... but then that doesn't explain how Phantom Six seems able to predict the future.
And become tangible and visible for others at will. Hrm.

eh, when does she do that?

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:36 pm

As an aside, I think I fancy Boomer/Sharon and it confuses me

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:54 pm

Best First wrote:eh, when does she do that?

In Season one, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. No, wait, that's Dream Theater's album, but something with Degrees in it. She got pissed at Baltar and decided to leave him, then she went to Adama with proves that Gaius was the one who helped Cylons. When Baltar apologized to her, she became his personal ghost again.

You might argue that the other one was simply another model of 6, but that's still really big coincidence.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:43 pm

Ozz wrote:

You might argue that the other one was simply another model of 6, but that's still really big coincidence.

Thats what I basically thought, but that it was also a model that didn't know it was a Cylon.

I get the feeling that Six calls most of the shots with the Cylons, and could have sent it to [composite word including 'f*ck'] with Baltar's head. (A Caprica Six in Season 1 wept when love was mentioned... so the self-aware ones seem to all love him).

I think its great how its all a puzzle tho. Not sure the writers really know either!

Hound wrote:As an aside, I think I fancy Boomer/Sharon and it confuses me

I don't quite get her popularity. In any case there's plenty of other talent to keep you distracted I would've thought!