ALL religions make me want to throw up...

man-with-the-dogs · Post by **man-with-the-dogs** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:56 am

All religions suck!

Anybody agree?

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:27 am

Hahahahahaha Smooth can't agree!

god · Post by **god** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:47 am

i agree,

religion is there for people to hide behind instead of facing reality, it also can be used as a mass controll or mass motivation tool for those in charge

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:50 am

and when god says that.... woah...

Post by **Best First** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:31 am

i think any statement that attempts to so simply analyse something that has so vastly influenced human history isn't much use in isolation.

religion obviously has an appeal to people, so if you think its damaging (something i partially agree with) the key point then becomes - what do you replace it with and what do you do to retain the more postive aspects (certain ethics, the level of charitable mobilisation for example) whilst removing the potentially destructive aspects (which for me is largely the fact that faith acts as a barrier to rational discussion and resolution of issues and can be used to support prejudice and vendettas with no accepted line of retort)?

I've started to reliase that if you believe religion is a destructive, devisive force then throwing further stones isn't really doing much to address that concern.

the smell of canned Tuna makes me want to throw up, if that helps.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:34 am

Fence-sitter. In the everyday some people think they need life-coping tools and several people I know have used/use various religions as just that. But on a broader scale, things done in the name of are absolute ********.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:47 pm

There's good religion and bad religion. All religions have good points and bad points. All major religions contain groups whose practice of their religion motivates them to do good and be better people, and all major religions also include groups where religion is used as a tool to control people and an excuse to do bad things. In most cases, bad religion is a distortion of the faith it claims to be a part of. If you want to get rid of the bad religion, you'll almost certainly have more impact by promoting the good version of said religion to the followers of the bad religion than you would by bashing that religion in particular or religion in general.

man-with-the-dogs · Post by **man-with-the-dogs** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:44 am

Best First wrote:i think any statement that attempts to so simply analyse something that has so vastly influenced human history isn't much use in isolation.

religion obviously has an appeal to people, so if you think its damaging (something i partially agree with) the key point then becomes - what do you replace it with and what do you do to retain the more postive aspects (certain ethics, the level of charitable mobilisation for example) whilst removing the potentially destructive aspects (which for me is largely the fact that faith acts as a barrier to rational discussion and resolution of issues and can be used to support prejudice and vendettas with no accepted line of retort)?

I've started to reliase that if you believe religion is a destructive, devisive force then throwing further stones isn't really doing much to address that concern.

the smell of canned Tuna makes me want to throw up, if that helps.

You're a smart guy. I will acknowledge that there have been religious movements in the past which have done good. The berrigan brothers' opposition to the Vietnam war, and Pope John Paul's opposition to both military powers of the Cold War are two that come to mind. And maybe it isn't such a cut-and-dry issue. Personally speaking, I just haven't found much comfort in religion, and the Jerry Falwells of the world make me sick. I don't like being told I'm going to hell for having sex. To me morality and religion are seperate things. The non-religious understand morality, as do may religious people. I was raised Catholic so I know a bit about that faith, but there are many I'm unaware of. It seems like religion has had an enormous destructive influence over human-kind. The crusades, World War II, I really can't think of one war that wasn't basically about different religious factions wanting to kill each other because all involved thought they were absolutely right. I'm not dissing anybody's deities or beliefs. I just think people should come to thier own conclusions independantly and not accept things "just because." I don't know, it's just an opinion.

man-with-the-dogs · Post by **man-with-the-dogs** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:45 am

Bouncelot wrote:There's good religion and bad religion. All religions have good points and bad points. All major religions contain groups whose practice of their religion motivates them to do good and be better people, and all major religions also include groups where religion is used as a tool to control people and an excuse to do bad things. In most cases, bad religion is a distortion of the faith it claims to be a part of. If you want to get rid of the bad religion, you'll almost certainly have more impact by promoting the good version of said religion to the followers of the bad religion than you would by bashing that religion in particular or religion in general.

Bad Religion rules.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:55 am

sprunkner wrote:Hahahahahaha Smooth can't agree!

Sure I can. Religions suck. The people that follow said religion can make or break them and, for the most part, they choose "break."

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:10 am

but there are many I'm unaware of.

So how can they all make you sick?

It seems like religion has had an enormous destructive influence over human-kind.

People have an enormous destructive influence over mankind, too.

I'm not dissing anybody's deities or beliefs.

No, you're just dismissing them without knowing anything about them.

I just think people should come to thier own conclusions independantly and not accept things "just because."

I'm fairly sure most people think they know what they're doing regardless of what they choose.

I really hate the "write things off before you know anything about it" attitude...

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:34 am

Bouncelot wrote:There's good religion and bad religion. All religions have good points and bad points. All major religions contain groups whose practice of their religion motivates them to do good and be better people, and all major religions also include groups where religion is used as a tool to control people and an excuse to do bad things. In most cases, bad religion is a distortion of the faith it claims to be a part of. If you want to get rid of the bad religion, you'll almost certainly have more impact by promoting the good version of said religion to the followers of the bad religion than you would by bashing that religion in particular or religion in general.

unless of course you believe that both share the same fundamental problem which is motivating people through irrationality and faith (which, sorry, i also would refer to as lies) rather than through reason and discourse.

or to put it another way, that's a rather self serving arguement.

Snakeguru · Post by **Snakeguru** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:35 pm

I'd say some aspects of it sucks while other aspects doesn't. It can be both good and bad.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:11 pm

If a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound?

If there are no humans is there still a god?

One day the earth will end.
End of religon.
will god save you, no.

pointless then. god doesnt give a **** so get up of your knees, stop praying and do somthing with your life instead of stiring up crap and perhaps do somthing usefull whilst your at it - god would be pleased if there was one.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:23 pm

can't we go into space and stuff and have cool adventures whilst scrimping a living through both leagl and illegal means and dodging the alliance as we have a couple of runaways on board?

Plus to presume a god exists without people presumes a god needs worship rather than just likes it due to his massive god/Dylan like ego.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:42 pm

I think its an interesting question tho - Does god exist without humans?

I mean if were not here to talk about him, is he still there, and as he never directly does anything does it change anything? - Yes i am talking about God having an ego here but thats one of my major gripes about some religons.

Why would a god require worship it seems to undermine everything a god is about? - they dont need worship it seems they only need worhsip or more so, the religon only needs worship to re-enforce thier faith in thier belife system. God acts as the ultimate answer when your question cannot be answered with faith alone.

Christianity to me seems really strange in the way it worships god.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:46 pm

I worship Sutekh.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:05 pm

i do find thE worship bit really odd. its just kind of vain isn't it? In fact announcing your existence full stop is pretty much a contradiction to teh notion of free will.

"I HAVE CREATED YOU, YOU ARE FREE TO DO AS YOU WILL"

"Cool, lets go to the beach"

"HEY!"

"What?"

"AREN'T YOU GOING TO WORSHIP ME?"

"Er... sure, thanks for creating me. And the beach. We're off there now"

"SAME TIME NEXT WEEK?"

"What?"

"YOU'LL EXERCISE YOUR FREEDOM BY WORSHIPING ME AGAIN THE SAME TIME NEXT WEEK, RIGHT?"

"Dude, this is so not cool"

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:59 pm

man-with-the-dogs wrote:I don't like being told I'm going to hell for having sex.

To be fair, there aren't many religions which view sex as inherently sinful, though most say that it's sinful outside of the context of marriage. And there are probably plenty of things you've said, thought, or done, in addition to sex which said religions would say destine you for hell.

It seems like religion has had an enormous destructive influence over human-kind. The crusades, World War II, I really can't think of one war that wasn't basically about different religious factions wanting to kill each other because all involved thought they were absolutely right.

Most of the wars I know anything about were primarily about possession of land and resources - even ones like the Crusade which people justified on relgious grounds. And World War Two was only religious if you count Nazism and Japanese Nationalism as religions. Even then, it was primarily about control of land.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:I think its an interesting question tho - Does god exist without humans?

Well unless god follows Terry Pratchett's model of only existing when people believe in him, the existence of humans is irrelevant to the existence of God. Either He exists independantly of us, or he's an idea we made up and doesn't exist at all.

Why would a god require worship it seems to undermine everything a god is about? - they dont need worship it seems they only need worhsip or more so, the religon only needs worship to re-enforce thier faith in thier belife system. God acts as the ultimate answer when your question cannot be answered with faith alone.

Christianity to me seems really strange in the way it worships god.

As a Christian I don't think that worship is for God's benefit, I think that it's actually for our benefit. Worship is the one activity I will never get bored of, it helps me keep my perspective right, it's an important part of my relationship with God, and I really couldn't genuinely enjoy knowing God without expressing it through worship.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:13 pm

People don't believe in you, so you don't exist.

God: Hadn't thought of that.

*blinks out of existence*

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:41 pm

Bouncelot wrote:Either He exists independantly of us, or he's an idea we made up and doesn't exist at all.

Yep.

As far as I'm concerned, religions are kind of ridiculous, and kind of tragic because people actually believe in them. People need somethhing to believe in, but I have far more time for people who worship Elvis, or Transformers, or football, than those who worship God.

If you want to know the answers to the big questions, start looking at the evidence. That means biology, geology and paleontology. Even history, I suppose. Then check your own experience. If any of this rises to the idea of the existence of a God, then believe away. Myself, I find it kind of hard to believe in a God that created a planet like this for his favourite creations. There have been 5 mass extinctions of life on this planet so far, and many would say we're living through the 6th. Nice work, God.

[edit] [/edit]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:07 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:If you want to know the answers to the big questions, start looking at the evidence. That means biology, geology and paleontology. Even history, I suppose. Then check your own experience. If any of this rises to the idea of the existence of a God, then believe away. Myself, I find it kind of hard to believe in a God that created a planet like this for his favourite creations. There have been 5 mass extinctions of life on this planet so far, and many would say we're living through the 6th. Nice work, God.

Or, if one was of the religious bent where the first few days of Genesis are periods between mass extinctions, then God took a few 'days' to make the world suitable for humans. But humans didn't like their world that much, so they set about altering this, and getting rid of that. God, wondering where his dodos had gone, disguised himself as a human to get their perspective on things. After trying to persuade them to change their ways, he decided to have done and go work on some other celestial project elsewhere.

The rest, as they say, is pure fantasy.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:13 pm

[quote="Rebis"]...then God took a few 'days' to make the world suitable for humans./quote]
I love the way he left in parasites, disease, and covered two-thirds of the planet with salt-water

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:22 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Rebis wrote:...then God took a few 'days' to make the world suitable for humans./quote]
I love the way he left in parasites, disease, and covered two-thirds of the planet with salt-water

This is a god who doesn't get it right on the first attempt. He's probably plumbed the volcanoes into the ice caps, bloody cowboys!

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:18 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:..then God took a few 'days' to make the world suitable for humans./quote]
I love the way he left in parasites, disease, and covered two-thirds of the planet with salt-water

And let's not forget those wonderful genetic defects, allergies and the fact that we'd easily die in tons place if he hadn't invented stuff to survive (clothes, ration packs, any survival gear).

Intelligent design my ass, seeing kids being born with stumps instead of legs doesn't seem that well designed.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:34 am

Religion for the sake of coping with life is nothing more than a tool, something very much like family, drugs, alcohol, etc. In other words, its not religion if this is its purpose. Its nothing more than a cushion to soften the blows of life.

Religion as a quest for truth, for reality, however, is something much, much more. And this the mindset I use when thinking about religion.

With this mindset in mind, I believe there can be one truth only. In other words, God either exists or He does not. Both can't be true.

Once I believe that He does, then we are left with hundreds of religions, of which either a) one is the truth or b) none are the truth. All can't be all true.

So religion should be thought of as a quest for truth, not as a coping mechanism or an exploitative institution. It certainly can be a coping mechanism and exploitive, but if used this way, it ceases to be a matter of spirituality, as religion should be, but rather a tool to meet worldly ends.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:37 am

My version of athiesm is simple.

I don't believe it [god] exists. But I'm not going to piss all over anyone else's belief system as I don't really know, do I?

It's idiotic behaviour that ruins it for everybody... I think idiots shouldn't be allowed to believe in God if they [composite word including 'f*ck'] up. That'd be hilarious.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:39 am

Yaya wrote: So religion should be thought of as a quest for truth

if that were the case religions would consnatly be evlving and questioning themselves, given that most of them hold up ancient cripts as sources of truth that's not something that is readily evident.

Studying philosophy, theology, history, science and/or otehr disceplines is a quest for truth, signing up to be part of a gang with fairly fixed set of ideas however, not so much.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:07 pm

Best First wrote:
Yaya wrote: So religion should be thought of as a quest for truth
if that were the case religions would consnatly be evlving and questioning themselves, given that most of them hold up ancient cripts as sources of truth that's not something that is readily evident.

I think there is a tendency to relate something before our time as behind the times. While this may be true regarding technological or scientific achievement, some things are both wise and true, and remain as such, since the beginning of time.

If the purpose of religion were to provide us with all answers to the wonders of science, they would teach that scientific study is forbidden. Most religions do not do this, and in fact, many encourage intellectual and scientific achievement to understand how God makes things work and to garner a greater appreciation of His greatness. I personally have experienced this very wonder and amazement, and science as been nothing for me but a proof of a higher power. For others, it isn't.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:35 pm

Yaya wrote:
Best First wrote:
Yaya wrote: So religion should be thought of as a quest for truth
if that were the case religions would consnatly be evlving and questioning themselves, given that most of them hold up ancient cripts as sources of truth that's not something that is readily evident.

I think there is a tendency to relate something before our time as behind the times. While this may be true regarding technological or scientific achievement, some things are both wise and true, and remain as such, since the beginning of time.

so not most religions then, which are a few thousand years old at best.

also, thats such a non point "some old things may be valid", yes, but some may not.

If the purpose of religion were to provide us with all answers to the wonders of science, they would teach that scientific study is forbidden.

if fish, then monkey. Please.

Anyway that does not make religions the quest for truth, if they were they would also 'encourage' (i don't see a lot of evidence for religions going out of their way to promote science) the study of alternate faiths and philosophies, and be open to ideas that challenge their own 'truths'. This is not the case.

Also, i wonder, does studying, say, HIV or cancer help you "to understand how God makes things work and to garner a greater appreciation of His greatness."?