Getting political

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:12 pm

To honour some of my new year resolutions, I'm getting more overtly political, so today I joined these two organisations.

http://www.no2id.net/
http://www.caat.org.uk/

I'd encourage any UKers at least to have a look at these.

angloconvoy · Post by **angloconvoy** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:37 pm

ID cards are a ridiculous idea. And scarily big brother. Of course, many are already starting the "if you've nothing to hide" argument. What price freedom eh? *sighs*

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:26 am

Careful now, EmmVee. Those that get into politics are not always smart or skilled, but they always share one trait: The HUNGER for power.

They want to make the laws that we all abide by.

Just remember what your purpose is supposed to be with this.

What is your purpose btw? Since I'm not a brit, I can't really be arsed to click the links.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:44 am

Predabot wrote:Just remember what your purpose is supposed to be with this.

What is your purpose btw?

World domination

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:55 am

I knew it...

Will you make TransFest Magazine an obligatory reading in schools and work-places when you've achieved your goal? I'll take it it would come out regularly (every forthnight of course) Can I be a regular member of the editorial..?

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:06 am

angloconvoy wrote:ID cards are a ridiculous idea. And scarily big brother. Of course, many are already starting the "if you've nothing to hide" argument. What price freedom eh? *sighs*

One of fave quotes:
Any society, which would lose a little liberty, to gain a little security, deserve neither, and will lose both

fits rather well i think...

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:57 am

I think its amazing how much information is recored about us everyday without ID cards.
Use of Credit cards/debit cards track are movements perfectly...

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:05 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:I think its amazing how much information is recored about us everyday without ID cards.
Use of Credit cards/debit cards track are movements perfectly...

Yeah, but currently a policeman can't make you to produce a credit card at his request so that he can see:
A) where you been today, and;
B) if you have a legal right to exist.

And its not an offence NOT to carry your credit card if you don't want to.

BTW, I Like the quote Legion. Who said it?

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:10 pm

Scraplet wrote:BTW, I Like the quote Legion. Who said it?

um... Civilization IV...

Google says Benjamin Franklin tho.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:30 pm

Out of interest does anyone have a list of the new propsed ID card laws?

I was wondering if it would be a crimnal offence to NOT carry the card?

Otherwise, should we not have a better passport?

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:27 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Out of interest does anyone have a list of the new propsed ID card laws?

I was wondering if it would be a crimnal offence to NOT carry the card?

Otherwise, should we not have a better passport?

I've wondered the same thing, but i really don't know enough about the whole thing to be able to answer that... i know i probably should, but...

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:19 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Out of interest does anyone have a list of the new propsed ID card laws?

I was wondering if it would be a crimnal offence to NOT carry the card?

One of the 'pro-card' arguments has been that it won't initially be compulsory to carry it. But the end-game has to be compultion.

How are you going to pick out the terrorists and illegal imigrants, otherwise (as this seems to be the only argument government has for these things).
Policeman: "Show me your ID"
Illegal imigrant: "Sorry officer, I've left it at home"
Policeman: " Well, make sure you produce it at a police station within 7 days"

That'll work, wont it? That'll be £3 billion well-spent there Mr Blair. Or that'll be the argument to make it compulsive. " We spent all this money, but the only way to make it entirely effective is for all of you to be criminalised for leaving the house without a card. Its for your own good."

Nice one.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:24 pm

Predabot wrote:Careful now, EmmVee. Those that get into politics are not always smart or skilled, but they always share one trait: The HUNGER for power.

They want to make the laws that we all abide by.

Some do go into politics because they want to make a difference on a political issue - so the power thing is a means to an end. Of course, hunger for power is much more common the higher up you go - simply because those with a hunger for power have more motivation to grab power than those who are in it to help others.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:54 pm

and are more willing to compromise themselves to get it.

ID cards...

will be brilliant for IT consultancies and crap for everyone else.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:09 am

Isnt some sort of new passport required tho - everyone seems to be able to fake one ?

not saying its the ID scheme but somthing like it?

Post by **Best First** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:16 am

oh right, cos if they can fake passports there is no way they will be able to fake id cards.

hmm, how about using that 3 billion to target organised crime and the social issues that lead people to belive they can accomplish more operating outside society than within it?

or is that thoughtful.

Anyway, this Pussycat Doll's video is awesome.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:27 am

I didnt say the ID scheme now did I?

I asked, dont you think we need a new passport because our current one is useless?

Comming back to the current scheme to play devils advocate, Spedning 3bill or whatever (not that I think the number is important, they can say anything) on trying to combat social issues or somthing else still doesnt address the current ID problem we have in the UK.

We already spend money on social issues, we have an ID problem with ppl comming into this country and causing problems as we all already know, should we not do somthing about it?

Post by **Best First** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:20 am

we already have a new passport system - everyone is in the process of being switched to biometric passports - you now need one to enter the US.

i fail to see how any 'new passport' system is going to be foolproof to those who profit from illegal immigration or well funded terror cells, whichever you are referring to.

the only significant terror indicent of the last few years was carried out by people with legitimate British passports anyway.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:10 am

Legion wrote:
Scraplet wrote:BTW, I Like the quote Legion. Who said it?
um... Civilization IV...

Google says Benjamin Franklin tho.

Another good quote:
"In times of change learners inherit the earth;
while the learned find themselves beautifully
equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists."
-- Eric Hoffer

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:26 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: We already spend money on social issues, we have an ID problem with ppl comming into this country and causing problems as we all already know, should we not do somthing about it?

If we continue down the path to a police state, the day will come when we'll be unable to protest that is gone too far, 'cos we'll all be terrorists and subversives by then!

Hitler is what happens when yopu give the state too much power.

I'd rather retain my liberties and take my chances with the terrorists and illegal immigrates, thanks very much.

And if we sort out the social problems, there will be;
a)less disenfranchised twenty-somethings who are willing to die for a moment of glory, and:
b) less people driven to emigrate by poverty.

Job done!

Shanti wrote: Another good quote:
"In times of change learners inherit the earth;
while the learned find themselves beautifully
equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists."
-- Eric Hoffer

I'm gonna adopt that as my motto

Post by **Best First** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:48 pm

Scraplet wrote: And if we sort out the social problems, there will be;
a)less disenfranchised twenty-somethings who are willing to die for a moment of glory, and:
b) less people driven to emigrate by poverty.

will this involve me paying mroe tax?

i'm all for improving the world, but not if i have to in any way chip into my ridiculously privaliged position.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:00 pm

Best First wrote:Anyway, this Pussycat Doll's video is awesome.

Is it wrong that I hate their existence but would kill to shoot their videos?

Love the laziness in the new track. Blatantly couldn't find a way for the lyrics to rhyme, so tried to be "edgy" to compensate.

... hrm?

ID Cards?

Uhm... I'm against it?