Muslim Outrage

[jboyler]

Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.

A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.

Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.

Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

------------------------------

Not mine, but I agree with the sentiment.

-J

[spiderfrommars]

I think its fair to say there's plenty of Muslims the world over who are outraged by the fanatics who misrepresent their faith.

Speaking of whom, I suspect irony is lost on them:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/ ... behead.jpg

[Brendocon]

It's crazy. You don't see the Catholic Church trying to burn Matt Stone and Trey Parker, do you?

Eh? What? Oh.

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20060205.html

[Metal Vendetta]

Can someone explain to me why Islamic law should apply to a non-Muslim cartoonist ?

[divebomb]

I'm sorry, it's just dispicable. The insignificance of a cartoon in terms of real life is stupid. Apparently this cartoon was actually printed months ago, but some muslims have travelled about showing it other muslims, who would never have seen it in the first place. The Christian image of god has been ridiculed and lambasted in cartoons, films etc.

Could you image if the life of brian focused on mohammed instead of jesus??

I would like to say that the British muslims who have condemmed the reaction by extremists are extremely worthy of respect, and as I have muslim friends who act no different to my catholic friends with regards to how much they are into their religion, are we all really that different?

[Brendocon]

And can the same person explain to me why I was under the impression that the burning of heretics was something beaten of civilised society a couple of centuries back?

Burn the witch? Burn the political satirist, more like...

[EDIT] I wonder if these people are familiar with Jack Chick...

[Dead Head]

The silence is often deafening from the large amount of moderate Muslims across the globe.

It reminds me of some middle class Northern Irish republicans I used to know (who were otherwise quite nice people) that were happy to see 'their' extreme elements like the INLA + IRA attack the 'British bastards', all the while not getting involved either in serious condemnation of it all and instead secretly revelling in the latest 'victory' for the boys in green. The kind of folks who publically say SDLP but privately vote Sinn Fein.

[Metal Vendetta]

[EDIT] I wonder if these people are familiar with Jack Chick...

Chick said that Mohammed was a paedophile, didn't he?

I may pop over to Islamonline.com and post a couple of links to Chick's work...after all if we're going to have a civilisation clash I want the Americans to get involved too...

[jboyler]

I think its fair to say there's plenty of Muslims the world over who are outraged by the fanatics who misrepresent their faith.

The silence is often deafening from the large amount of moderate Muslims across the globe.

I second that.

-J

[Metal Vendetta]

For any lazy Muslims who may be reading this, there's a ready-made death list here.

[Metal Vendetta]

Speaking of whom, I suspect irony is lost on them:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/ ... behead.jpg

Um, just seen this:
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com ... 127481.jpg

[spiderfrommars]

Heads will roll for this!!



Geddit?

[Metal Vendetta]

If only Christians and Muslims could get along...they have so much in common:
http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news ... ice_id=476

[Scraplet]

There are people who say that long ago man was a monkey and he evolved. Is this true? Is there any evidence?.

This view is not correct, and the evidence for that is that Allaah has described in the Qur’aan the stages of the creation of Adam.

Adam was made from mud 'cos Allaah said so. Monkeys? Don't be daft!

Its nice to see such a high level of debate going on. This kinda quality is what has been lacking in the disscusions around here.

[Best First]

i'm sorry, buit i find the oprning post and some of the comemtns here 'one sided' at best. There are some dan

a worrying degree of apathy over most crisis as long as they don't effect you is hardly something exlusive to muslims.

i'm fairly sure you could conjure similar lists with regard to most denominations and nationalities, and all of them woul dbe equally factually incorrect - there was large scale condemnation of 7/7 by leading muslims and the governments of muslim nations. The sound of Christain's orldwide s equally deafening as the Vatican's policies merrily encourag eteh transmission of AIDs in Africa, the voice of the US and British public is pretty quiet as we bomb innocent son the other side of the world. If it was happening to people down our street i suspect you might hear about it a bit more.

Equally if the suggestion is that Muslims should be have been outraged at anti-semitci cartoons then isn't i illogical for critsising 'them' for being otraged at cartoons that could be construed as islamaphobic?

Either way i think there is something to be said for remaininga constructive and keeping persepctive, espcially given that that's waht others are being accused of not doing.

I think this is the most sensible comment on the 'debate' i have read so far:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Stor ... 65,00.html

[Dead Head]

Well worth reading this article by Christopher Hitchens:
http://www.slate.com/id/2135499/

[Metal Vendetta]

I think I'm more convinced by Hitchens. It's tough to "remain constructive and keep persepctive" in the face of violent mobs who burn down embassies, shoot priests and carry banners that say "Butcher those who mock Islam", because I am one of those who mock Islam. I do it almost every day and I really want to be free to continue mocking Islam as much as I want. I would also like to do it without fear of being killed. There's reasonable and there's reasonable. I'm not the one protesting and burning flags, even though most of what I hear from the Muslim world is abhorrent to my personal principles and convictions.

[Dead Head]

I am one of those who mock Islam. I do it almost every day and I really want to be free to continue mocking Islam as much as I want. I would also like to do it without fear of being killed.

I mock all religions too, occasionally. But that won't stop me holding a door open by way of courtesy for a stranger who is unlike my unbelieving hellbound self.

[Brendocon]

Aye. I'm all for magnanimous tolerance and understanding of cultural differences.

I understand and appreciate that criticism/parody of their faith may offend their sensibilities; but until I see some magnanimous tolerance from the bloodthirsty extremists, the notion of slaughtering political satirists will continue to offend my sensibilities.

If these cartoons had been printed within a Muslim culture, then I'd probably regard the proposed lynching as an unfortunate and predictable response... I really lost track of where I was going with that thought. Sod it, just let the protesters get arrested for inciting violence and stirring up racial hatred, or whatever they call the "not allowed to say what the government doesn't want you to" charge this week.

I'm gonna make the conscious decision to ignore it all until it goes away. I'm having one of those moments where I put my faith in the better nature of humanity. If a UK citizen was due to be stoned for flashing his toes in Iran (or something), we'd all be up in arms and right wing extremists with poor knowledge of geography would be advocating the bombing of Egypt for it (or something)... but the politicians would probably slip each other twenties until it was all figured out. Each culture has its reactionary nutjobs. Except for yoghurt, obviously.

[Metal Vendetta]

One of my Muslim friends (who takes it all VERY seriously) has told me that people at his mosque wouldn't even talk to me because I am white, occasionally transvestite, and an atheist. Rational discussion where one side won't even communicate with you becomes quite difficult.

[Denyer]

Disapproval is fine. Educating people is fine. Violence and threats of violence... nope.

Equal-opportunity debunking.

Most of the current furore is likely because of political developments and changes in leadership, not something that happened last September.

In Islam, representations of all prophets are strictly forbidden.

It isn't that blanket or straightforward, in the same way some branches of Christianity render icons and others get in a huff about it detracting from spirituality. You can find representations of the prophet in some temples, which I'm sure our columnist will happily describe as "not real Islam". It's a simple product of ideology not being centrally organised.

it is just as excessive and irresponsible to invoke the "right to freedom of expression" - the right to say anything, in any way, against anybody

Entirely. As making a point that dogmatic trivia is likely to drive a percentage of a group to mindless violence goes, though, the Danish editorial couldn't have been much more effective.

Additionally, this guy seems keen to conflate issues of race and religion. A choice of ideology and a product of genetics don't belong in the same sentence.

Why render a fictionalisation of an historical figure off-limits for criticism? "Because people get violent" isn't a good answer in civilisation. "Because people place stock in a fiction" isn't much better.

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20060205.html

Willis certainly brings out the best in people...

http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/54335.html#t1632831

Could you image if the life of brian focused on mohammed instead of jesus??

Sadly, I couldn't see Life of Brian being made these days, despite it being a decent critique of elevating people to religious significance.

[Obfleur]

They should just let Chuck Norris handle it.

[Yaya]

Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.

A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.

Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.

Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

This is a very one-sided depiction of a group of people that the world over number over a billion. If this were the true nature of Muslims, everyone would be dead. A similarly slanted account of Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheist, etc. can also be given, and would not be representative of any of these groups.

Also, there is something that you tend to forget, and that's the issue of propoganda. There is no greater weapon than this. What infuriates me to no end is when I see citizens accept wholeheartedly whatever their television feeds them, even when it runs counter to common sense. You should have seen how this entire nation fell for the whole "they hate our freedom" speech as a reason for invading Iraq. I mean, without question, the masses accepted it as "good enough for me". Now, they sit back and wonder after the fact what the hell we are actually doing there.

I would guess that some of the things you list above were actually committed by other groups to further their interest in the world, and blamed on Muslim terrorist. Some groups even stand to gain from the negative depiction itself. Its an easy scapegoat, used all too often. I'm not saying that extremist would desire not to do such things, but that they lack the capability to pull off a lot of what you see in the news without aid from more powerful, influential groups, like foreign intelligence agencies, etc.

[Metal Vendetta]

You should have seen how this entire nation fell for the whole "they hate our freedom" speech as a reason for invading Iraq. I mean, without question, the masses accepted it as "good enough for me". Now, they sit back and wonder after the fact what the hell we are actually doing there.

This is a very one-sided depiction of a group of people that number over 300 million.

See?

[Yaya]

You should have seen how this entire nation fell for the whole "they hate our freedom" speech as a reason for invading Iraq. I mean, without question, the masses accepted it as "good enough for me". Now, they sit back and wonder after the fact what the hell we are actually doing there.

This is a very one-sided depiction of a group of people that number over 300 million.

See?

No, I don't. Obviously when I say they, I mean those gullible people who accept what the media feeds them, which includes all sorts of individuals of all races, colors, and religions. That hardly as criminial as making them out to be murderous vigilantes.

The principles under which America was founded makes this country the greatest in the world, IMO. Unfortunately, we are losing those principles from right under our noses, and in the name of freedom, of all things.

[The Last Autobot]

You should have seen how this entire nation fell for the whole "they hate our freedom" speech as a reason for invading Iraq. I mean, without question, the masses accepted it as "good enough for me". Now, they sit back and wonder after the fact what the hell we are actually doing there.

This is a very one-sided depiction of a group of people that number over 300 million.

See?

No, I don't. Obviously when I say they, I mean those gullible people who accept what the media feeds them, which includes all sorts of individuals of all races, colors, and religions. That hardly as criminial as making them out to be murderous vigilantes.

The principles under which America was founded makes this country the greatest in the world, IMO. Unfortunately, we are losing those principles from right under our noses, and in the name of freedom, of all things.

For me (IMMHO -In my most humble opinion) USA with their policy of being the world Sheriff is really the cause of a lot of problems. Maybe when countries stop treating each other as their backyards things would improve.

Oh and I hate extremists. Everyone should live their lives as they see fit without being afraid of being killed, bullied or secluded.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

The principles under which America was founded makes this country the greatest in the world, IMO. Unfortunately, we are losing those principles from right under our noses, and in the name of freedom, of all things.

Hah!

[Yaya]

The principles under which America was founded makes this country the greatest in the world, IMO. Unfortunately, we are losing those principles from right under our noses, and in the name of freedom, of all things.

Hah!

[Metal Vendetta]

This is a very one-sided depiction of a group of people that number over 300 million.

See?

No, I don't.

No you don't, do you?

Obviously when I say they, I mean those gullible people who accept what the media feeds them, which includes all sorts of individuals of all races, colors, and religions.

Obviously. Except you didn't say "they", you said "this entire nation". So are you saying that all Americans are "gullible people who accept what the media feeds them"?

That hardly as criminial as making them out to be murderous vigilantes.

Nowhere in that list does it suggest that all Muslims are murderous vigilantes. It simply highlights the fact that Muslims do not speak out as vociferously against wholesale atrocities that other Muslims have committed than they have against a non-Muslim drawing a little picture. Your own prejudices seem to be creeping into the debate here, either that or you're trying to put words in other people's mouths.

The principles under which America was founded makes this country the greatest in the world, IMO.

IYO.

Unfortunately, we are losing those principles from right under our noses, and in the name of freedom, of all things.

...er, which principles, exactly, are you losing? I'm not sure what this has to do with the rest of the topic either, but there you go.

[Obfleur]

The principles under which America was founded makes this country the greatest in the world, IMO.

"This beautiful country that we inherited... well, actually we stole it from the mexicans and the indians".
Yeah, it's great.