Is down loading TV shows or old films wrong?

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:13 pm

Surprisingly difficult to get agreement.

Well, these days you can get a Sky plus box that is specifically made to record anything and everything.

However TV shows are now available widely on DVD and my Simpsons series 6 (Best series of a great TV show ver? Possibly) starts out with a You wouldn't steal a wallent, TV etc etc Pirates, dowloading is all stealing.

This started out of the famous "staffroom conversations" at work. While we all that downloading a film at the cinema is wrong, is something we can watch on TV for free (or for a subscription) wrong?

Or if its out on DVD but is still on E4 or something is downloading it also wrong?

Is downloading a film thats already been on TV also wrong?

What's your own reasoning on these matters?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:45 pm

Do not record off the radio...

Do not record off the television...

Do not download from the internet...

...except for personal use.

I blame public libraries, myself.

"Libertas - The Industry-Endorsed Peer-to-Peer Library System" - as some smart alec will design in some future time and find themselves fully egged when people hack around their seemingly secure system.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:26 pm

I'd steal a wallet.

I'd steal a TV.

I'll continue downloading.

I'm a criminal and fairly happy with it.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:48 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:I'd steal a wallet.

I'd steal a TV.

That's pretty much my response when those trails try and tell me what I wouldn't do. They don't know me.

Back to the matter at hand...

I only download TV programs that I can't get commercially.

Like the second series of Lost. It's not available for me to buy, so my piracy isn't actually diverting any revenue away from the producers. It's not theft because they're not losing out. When it comes out on DVD, I'll probably buy it then, but for the time being the only way I can watch it is to download it. So that's what I'm doing.

I've got no moral issue with that.

I missed the last episode of season 3 of Scrubs last week. It's not out on DVD. It's not being repeated. The only way for me to get it is to download it, which I intend to do. I'll still buy the DVD when it comes out.

Films? If it's in the cinema, I'll go and watch it there, because it's a nicer experience than squinting at my tv/monitor. Unless it's a cack film like Dukes of Hazzard that I have no intent of paying £6 to see.

Downloading music? Another matter entirely. £10 to buy an album? £4 to buy a three-track single when I only want the lead track? £0.80 on iTunes? [composite word including 'f*ck'] that. Extortionate money-grabbing bastards. Give me a sensibly priced way to get obscure individual tracks and I'll come off the P2P system. Until then, I'm happy as a morally indignant criminal.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:00 pm

You said it bro. I really don't feel guilty about it. I pay my TV licence, I'm just getting what I want from it.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:10 pm

That's another ******* thing. The TV license.

£100 a year for what?

Scrubs? Okay, yeah. But that's finished now.
House? What five haven't shown I've had taped for me off Hallmark.
Lost? Got the DVD set from the States, seen all the first season now.
CSI? Okay. Even if I'm currently being forced to endure the Miami version.

What else? QI, maybe. But... that's it at the moment.

Okay, so there's more stuff on satellite, but that's another what? £30? £40 a month? I'm not paying that just for the option of watching endless repeats on Paramount.

Load of crap.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:11 pm

It's called Time-shifting, when you create (or set a timer to create) a store of a particular media that you later intend to view/review.

I myself time-shift quite frequently. Usually forwards, mostly backwards, and a little side-to-side.

But never up nor down, as that can get a bit messy.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:15 pm

Brendocon wrote:What else? QI, maybe. But... that's it at the moment.

Buzzcocks is all right.

Rebis wrote:It's called Time-shifting, when you create (or set a timer to create) a store of a particular media that you later intend to view/review.

Hell yeah. By downloading Lost and South Park, I'm watching what will be shown here in 2007.

angloconvoy · Post by **angloconvoy** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:08 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:I'd steal a wallet.

I'd steal a TV.

I'll continue downloading.

I'm a criminal and fairly happy with it.

And the mystery of my missing wallet is solved!

Downloading progs, fine by me, though I'll buy the dvd if its worth it. I mean, I grudgingly pay a TV license just so I can have a tv that 90% of the time is either used for games or dvds anyway. And about 7% of the remaining 10 is just background noise.

Post by **Denyer** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:13 pm

Jetfire wrote:my Simpsons series 6 (Best series of a great TV show ver? Possibly) starts out with a You wouldn't steal a wallent, TV etc etc Pirates, dowloading is all stealing.

Except if you followed the analogy, the person would still have their wallet and you'd have one the same. Which is why it's a crap analogy.

Theft involves transferring physical possession of something away from someone.

Piracy? Again, a word chosen to connote physical theft.

Copyright infringement? Loss of potential earnings? Now we're talking, it just doesn't sound as emotionally charged.

Personally, I aim to play fair with content producers. If I like a book enough to want to re-read it, I'll buy it -- otherwise, I'll stick in a library reservation or download it. If I like an album, I'll get it (if I like one or two tracks, there are now plenty of online stores. On the whole I prefer CDs.) TV and films I rarely watch anyway -- but I do like DVD for the few things I'm inclined to rewatch.

Stuff I haven't sampled I'm very, very unlikely to purchase.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:58 am

Here in Sweden they showed the first 16 (or 18) episodes of Lost, Season 1.
Then they said "Well, We're just gonna take a two month long break - yes, right in the middle of the season. And then we'll show it aaaaall from the beginning, but we'll show two episodes per evening. Isn't this great? I think it's great."

Everybody I know said "[composite word including 'f*ck'] it. I'll just download the whole shabang instead", and this swedish television lost alot of viewers.
IMO it's perfectly okey to download the show if the above happens.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:11 am

Yeah, if I can't get me hands on a DVD, then downloading it is. Or if it doesn't actually make it to air...

Have also used it as a sampler for a comic I fancy reading but don't think is worth dropping £2.50 or whatever to check out. (I don't like to Byrne-steal as my main local comic shop is so narrow that two people standing back-to-back creates a massive obstruction...and they put the new releases at the choke-point of the shop where the aisle narrows to 1 person's breadth. So anyone Byrne-stealing there blocks the whole passageway. And the other main place has the kind of staff who stare.)

1 downloaded comic can easily result in 50 squid being dropped on TPBs I would never have otherwise bought.

TV license is pants. Hate it. I watch about 20 minutes of broadcast TV a week now Gil Grissom is off the telly.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:17 am

I think it's morally reprehensible, and is a great indicator of how we as a society have become selfish and lazy. Downloading anything that you could go out and shoplift for yourself is just wrong.

For sheer exhiliration, how can downloading ever compete with seeing a sportsbag stuffed full of pirate DVD's and stolen CD's? With downloading, where's the risk that it could all go wrong, and you'll have to then lay out some minimum wage teenage shop assistant in Woolies? Where's the joy in being able to go down to the local wasteland and frisbee all the crap CD's and DVD's that you grabbed in the rush?

You people make me sick. Respect the old arts, lest they become forgotten.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:03 am

Denyer wrote:Personally, I aim to play fair with content producers.

me too, if i like something i want it to be financially viable. Imagine if one person bought the next issue of Infiltration scanne dit and teh rest of us put it online - no issue 2.

why is 80p for a song so bad by the way?

I also don't mind paying my way - if people are going to bitch and moan about how much things cost they should do something about it on a broader scale not just bring it up to support ripping stuff off for their own benefit;

"Fight the power and get free stuff"

heroic.

i have no issue with the TV license as the BBC news service is one of if not the best in the world and i think that is worth the price alone.

More to the point though - what is the point in putting anti-download adds on DVDs? Cos if i watch them that means, huh!, i must have paid for the DVD.

"Don't do something you obvioulsy haven't done!"

yeah, cheers for that.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:17 am

I personally download stuff that I would never pay for to see.

Alien VS Predator (I would never pay to see this movie - and if I wasnt able to download it, I would never see it).
Batman Begins (I downloaded it, thought it was awesome -> saw it at the theaters -> will buy the DVD).

Another example;
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (awesome movie. Saw it at the theaters, and will buy the DVD).
Everything with Will Smith (will never pay for it)

Quality stuff = buy buy buy buy.
Crappy generic stuff = wont get my money.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:04 pm

why watch it if you don't think its any good?

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:07 pm

Best First wrote:why watch it if you don't think its any good?

It's relaxing to watch crap movies.
IE; if I'm hungover, I'd rather watch "Random Arnie movie", than Mulholland Drive.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:10 pm

Obfleur wrote:
Best First wrote:why watch it if you don't think its any good?
It's relaxing to watch crap movies.
IE; if I'm hungover, I'd rather watch "Random Arnie movie", than Mulholland Drive.

so... your logic for not paying makes no sense. If you get something oiut of it, shouldn't you pay something in return?

what difference does the quality of the product make?

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:19 pm

Best First wrote:
Obfleur wrote:
Best First wrote:why watch it if you don't think its any good?
It's relaxing to watch crap movies.
IE; if I'm hungover, I'd rather watch "Random Arnie movie", than Mulholland Drive.
so... your logic for not paying makes no sense. If you get something oiut of it, shouldn't you pay something in return?

what difference does the quality of the product make?

I could live without watching Hitch/Alien VS Predator/Bad Boys 2/Whatever when I'm hungover. Which means; if I werent able to download them, I wouldnt watch them at all.
I dont really get anything out of them - I could just as easily just flick on the telly and watch a random crappy program.
The only thing I get out of watching crap movies is that time passes by - and I am in controll of WHEN it starts, when it pauses, and when it stops.

(allthough if I watch a movie that turns out to be great, I'll buy it)

So... if it's a quality movie, I'll buy it.
If it's not a a quality movie, I wont pay for it.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:00 pm

Brendocon wrote:That's another ******* thing. The TV license.

£100 a year for what?

The BBC...

Brendocon wrote: Scrubs? Okay, yeah. But that's finished now.

C4

Brendocon wrote: House? What five haven't shown I've had taped for me off Hallmark.

C5

Brendocon wrote: Lost? Got the DVD set from the States, seen all the first season now.

C4

Brendocon wrote: CSI? Okay. Even if I'm currently being forced to endure the Miami version.

C5?

Um, my point... none of those are being paid for by the TV license.

Brendocon wrote: What else? QI, maybe. But... that's it at the moment.

Dr Who (ok, so new series is in production "at the moment").

What bugs me is the quiz shows on the Beeb that give away cash prizes... i mean [composite word including 'f*ck'] OFF, that's my money you're giving away!

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:44 pm

Yep, most of what I watch is on 4 or five, but I've still got to pay the license fee regardless of whether or not I watch the BBC. Which is part of what pisses me off.

The money may go to the Beeb, but I need to pay it for the right to watch the other channels. Unless you know something I don't...

Eline · Post by **Eline** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:48 pm

If you only wanted a tv to play games, do you still have to pay the licence?

You just buy a tv, don't buy the cable, and use it only for games.

Or will they hunt you down?

Post by **Best First** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:55 pm

i think you have to be able to prove you only use it for palying games.

not sure how you do that mind.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:55 pm

Brendocon wrote:Yep, most of what I watch is on 4 or five, but I've still got to pay the license fee regardless of whether or not I watch the BBC. Which is part of what pisses me off.

The money may go to the Beeb, but I need to pay it for the right to watch the other channels. Unless you know something I don't...

I think the Beeb rocks.

A lot of great stuff comes through BBCs 2 to 4.

I wonder though... if they used advertising instead for funding, could they make more dosh? Or would it be a lot less?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:07 pm

Best First wrote:i think you have to be able to prove you only use it for palying games.

not sure how you do that mind.

The set has to be incapable of receiving a beamed (TV) signal.

Post by **Denyer** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:51 pm

Best First wrote:More to the point though - what is the point in putting anti-download adds on DVDs? Cos if i watch them that means, huh!, i must have paid for the DVD.

Yup. Along similar lines, in some cases it's much easier to deal with cracked software even if you've bought it—no screwing around with registration codes, product activation, etc.

[mantra] Do not inconvenience legitimate customers. These days, they have choices. [/mantra]

The Beeb has an excellent website for news and everything else, which makes the TV bit mostly bonus. I don't see much of a role for print journalism (and it's massively inefficient.)

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:04 pm

Best First wrote:why is 80p for a song so bad by the way?

Because it's more expensive that if I were using the US version of iTunes? Or the French version?

I think. Well it was the last time I bothered to check, anyway.

"Haha! You are downloading from the internet, but... oh no, what's this? You're not in America! Haha, you're in England! We'll make you pay more. Because there's no way for you to get round it! What? No, back away from the computer and log off the peer2peer network!"

Rubbish!

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:55 pm

Well, since I'm not aborn english/american, things are a bit more difficult here. Sure there are hungarian hubs, but not many... And until a movie is translated, you have to wait lots of time. Of course, Iprefer watching movies in the language they were made, but even though my english is good I cannot always understand what the characters say (for example I can't understand a word Wreck-Gar is saying in season 3 due to the squiky voice,.. even Blurr is easier to understand.)

Then of course there are fan subtitles, but man... When I downloaded Batman Begins (because Ilikeit, went to cinema to watch it and I won't wait a year to get the official DVD) the subs were abysmal... Poor Prof. Crane was called Kraig, Klane and even Klein and that's only the smallest problem.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:07 pm

Brendocon wrote:
Best First wrote:why is 80p for a song so bad by the way?
Because it's more expensive that if I were using the US version of iTunes? Or the French version?

I think. Well it was the last time I bothered to check, anyway.

Fair point pardner.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:10 pm

Eline wrote:If you only wanted a tv to play games, do you still have to pay the licence?

You just buy a tv, don't buy the cable, and use it only for games.

Or will they hunt you down?

In sweden you have to pay the license if you own a tv - even if you just play videogames.
In fact; you have to pay it even if you ONLY own a VCR.
Also; if you own a computer with a tv-card in it, you have to pay the license.

In short; if you own ANYTHING you can connect with a tv-cable, you have to pay the license.

It's the "antenna" you pay for - not the actual tv (in Sweden)

TransFans.co.uk

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