Ronaldo

[Metal Vendetta]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4357914.stm

Apparently he raped a woman in his hotel room after a football match.

I don't really understand cases like this. Presumably he dragged her kicking and screaming all the way to his penthouse suite before raping her? Held her at gunpoint and marched her through the hotel? Perhaps she thought he was taking her to the penthouse to show her his stamp collection, then later they would hold hands and tell each other stories? I know that if I went back to a football player's penthouse suite the night after a match (presumably after nightclubs, drinking etc.) I'd expect to get bummed, let alone if I were an attractive young lady. I'm being thoroughly cynical here, but this just smells like a set-up from the word go. Max Clifford, anyone?

[Brendocon]

"Women, eh? They act all grown up and wear slutty clothes and get drunk and then when you try to arse rape them they get all upset. 'I'm only 13! I'm only 13!'"

I can't remember what that's a paraphrase from... or if it's just a byproduct of too much caffeine... it may be Kevin Smith ish... or not...

Ignore me.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

gold-digger...

Its easy tho isnt it, have a big night out, fancy meal, hotel room - none of these things, even if u are having fun in front of other ppl justify rape of course - then you can have sex, it might be great, then u walk to the cop office, and say 'ive been raped' - and no one can prove otherwise...

simple way to make money

[Brendocon]

say 'ive been raped' - and no one can prove otherwise...

Supposedly it all bruises differently if non consensual. Lack of assisting thrusts and whatnot.

Unless CSI lied to me...

[Impactor returns 2.0]

I didnt know that... if hes only just been arrested I guess there not much in the way of evidence left to convict upon, her word against his - nicer payout by united and a good way wreck some boys image.

[Jetfire]

My thoughts are also "Gold digger". A sudden outbreak of Rape accusations while the game is more awash with money than ever and shallow personnalties-concidence non?

Too be honest after the stash of rape accusations recently a footballer in a strange city taking a random local girl, who has wormed up to their after match party, up to their hotel for a one nighter is not just creating the opening for accusations but eving them the number of the local police station and PR manager.

gold-digger...

Its easy tho isnt it, have a big night out, fancy meal, hotel room - none of these things, even if u are having fun in front of other ppl justify rape of course - then you can have sex, it might be great, then u walk to the cop office, and say 'ive been raped' - and no one can prove otherwise...

simple way to make money

It's not that easy. Provided the woman goes to the police fast enough there is quite strong evidence as to a forced rape occured or not.

[Eline]

"Women, eh? They act all grown up and wear slutty clothes and get drunk and then when you try to arse rape them they get all upset. 'I'm only 13! I'm only 13!'"

I can't remember what that's a paraphrase from... or if it's just a byproduct of too much caffeine... it may be Kevin Smith ish... or not...

Ignore me.

It's bash.org

of course.

[Brendocon]

It's bash.org

of course.

Of course!

Ta. I hate when things leap into my head and I can't think where they're from...

[Metal Vendetta]

Just read the paper, they said the issue of consent is going to be a major part of the case.

No ****, Sherlock.

Yes they had dinner, yes she went back to his room, yes they had a couple of drinks but no, she didn't want to have sex with him. Man, if I ever get famous or even get some money I'ma have every girl I meet sign a disclaimer. It's gonna read something like:

I, ______________ [insert name of girl here]

Consent that RLJ can do pretty much what he likes with me between the hours of 11:00pm and 7:00am on the evening beginning ______________ [insert date here] and concluding _______________ [insert tomorrow's date here]

signed

_______________ [sign here]



...



Even if I just meet her to chat about work, or hang out or whatever. You can never be too careful.

[Best First]

i'd be wary of jumping in either direction, the idea of a gold digger seems no more realistic than the idea of a footballer who thinks he can do whateve he wants because he is rich and famous and he just paid for 3 bottles of Crystal.

People have the right to say no at any point, regardless of how they dress or act.

Also how desperate for cash do you have to be to put yourself through this s***? really. 'easy way to make money' - right.

Leaping to the gold digger conclusion is pretty reprehensible and socially irresponsible IMO.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

It must be an easy way to make money because thier are many cases where women have prey'd on men to make cash from shouting 'rape' - if it was so hard, how come ppl do it? - ppl do anything for money?

back to the story at hand, another 30 year old man has been held/detained - ronaldo helped answer questions.. so whether or not he was directly involved with the alleged rape is unclear.

[Best First]

It must be an easy way to make money because thier are many cases where women have prey'd on men to make cash from shouting 'rape' - if it was so hard, how come ppl do it? - ppl do anything for money?

sorry, where are all these cases? I mean the ones that you know for a fact weren't settled out of court or anything like that, all the clear cut, oh she as quite happy to have her entire sexual history dragged through court easy money cases, where are they detailed?

The Sun maybe? Or perhaps the excellent legal chronical The Mirror?

I note its important to be clear on details when we are dealing with a Man U player but crass generalisations are fine when it comes to the other person involved.

FFS.

[Metal Vendetta]

People have the right to say no at any point, regardless of how they dress or act.

Ideally, yes, but this is the real world. By your reasoning, a girl could come round my house, get into my bed, get naked and then scream rape if I touched her. And presumably that would be my fault, because I didn't get her to sign Document A above first.

It's about personal responsibility and safety. I'm not trying to blame the victim here but surely an invititation to a premiership footballer's penthouse suite is a pretty unequivocal sign that the premiership footballer is interested in sleeping with you. If you don't want to sleep with him, don't go to his room.

I don't know, I think in the end they're both pretty stupid for putting themselves in this position, but then that's hindsight for you.

[Brendocon]

If you don't want to sleep with him, don't go to his room.

So, should you only go into somebody's room if you intend to sleep with them?

[Eline]

It's about personal responsibility and safety. I'm not trying to blame the victim here but surely an invititation to a premiership footballer's penthouse suite is a pretty unequivocal sign that the premiership footballer is interested in sleeping with you. If you don't want to sleep with him, don't go to his room.

I know that when I was 18 or so, I was pretty naive.

Now I did (luckily?) never go to a hotel with a footballer, but if I had done, I wouldn't have thought that he would want more than a drink and a chat, and maybe a kiss.

Now I have learnt that some/most men are not like that.

[divebomb]

One thing that does smack of interest is that Man Utd have not made an official comment yet, Usually a club is first to spring to their players defence, but nothing from Man Utd yet.

[Metal Vendetta]

If you don't want to sleep with him, don't go to his room.

So, should you only go into somebody's room if you intend to sleep with them?

At the end of the night, after dinner and drinks? Er, yes. That's the way it works, isn't it? Else I've heard about this wonderful invention called a taxi home. Look, I'm not defending him and saying he's not guilty because if he is he deserves to be punished, but I'm saying that if I went back to Ronaldo's penthouse suite after a few drinks at the end of a night I'd expect him to try to have sex with me and I'm a 27 year-old bloke with a beard. It's like walking through the dodgiest area of town carrying all your money in a bag and then saying, well, I didn't expect to get mugged.

All I'm saying is that people allow themselves to become victims, unintentionally or not. He's allowed himself to be accused of rape because he got into a situation where this girl was in his room and it's her word against his. She got herself into a situation where she may have been attacked and raped because she went back to his room in the first place (perhaps albeit in good faith).

People have the right to say no at any point, regardless of how they dress or act.

I live in an area high in muggings and robbery, therefore I take precautions to protect myself against getting mugged. If I should be allowed to dress how I like and act how I like, then perhaps I should start wearing expensive clothes and waving wads of money in the faces of all the drug dealers outside Camden Tube and then try saying "no" when they try to take it from me at knifepoint later. Perhaps I could walk into a catholic bar in Northern Ireland wearing a shirt that says "Ulster Freedom Fighters", singing "The Pope's a bastard" and try saying "no" when they start bringing out the baseball bats and knuckle dusters. It's simple victimology. There are situations and places where you can leave yourself vulnerable and it's common sense to avoid them. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but if you swim with sharks, you'll get burned eventually.

And Eline, yes, that is pretty naive.

[Best First]

People have the right to say no at any point, regardless of how they dress or act.

Ideally, yes, but this is the real world. By your reasoning, a girl could come round my house, get into my bed, get naked and then scream rape if I touched her.

no, by my reasoning all that could happen and a girl (or boy)could change her mind at the last minute and you have to stop regardless of your expectations.

This isn't about accusations, its about the implication that by going a certain way down a certain path it is your fault if you get raped. Its a line of arguement that needs a boot heel applying to its neck.

It's about personal responsibility and safety. I'm not trying to blame the victim here

Yes, but, huh, you are.

And i'm well aware this is the real world. Now if could all stop making excuses for rape and therefore making it a worse place than it already is that would be lovely.

Yes there will always be false accuations of rape, but the implcation that there is some kind of trend here and comments that basically amount to 'she asked for it' have no place in a reasoned discussion of this subject.

The fact that some people are naive or stupid or lacking in common sense does not remove their victim status or their rights to a fair hearing - they have still had a crime perpetrated against them and it remains the perpetrator who should be the target of ire, not the victim.

[Brendocon]

but if you swim with sharks, you'll get burned eventually.

Surely if you're swimming with sharks, you're pretty much safeguarded against being burnt? Unless it's extremely hot water...

[/obligatory, this is me after all...]

[Legion]

but if you swim with sharks, you'll get burned eventually.

Surely if you're swimming with sharks, you're pretty much safeguarded against being burnt? Unless it's extremely hot water...

[/obligatory, this is me after all...]

or they have laser beams on their fricking heads...

[Impactor returns 2.0]

its worth noting Ronaldo came in fo questioning on the matter - was arrested and latter released after dispuiting everything - another man was also released, and yet another man, 20 years old has been kept in jail since this all happened.

There are a number of high profile rape cases allegations between footballers and other famous people out thee where the famous ppl have won and the girls in questions have been thrown out of court to be liars.

In the name of big bucks, some people will say anything, I think thats a pretty fair comment.
Whats worse in the a rape case, after all evidence has been lost a month later, its someones word against another - its a 50-50 shot for loads of cash.

Im not saying that is what has happened here as none of us actually know the facts - but its fair to say that there have been cases in the past where ppl were in it just for the cash.

Personaly Ronaldo doesnt strike me a rapist, but i can only go on face values.

[Metal Vendetta]

People have the right to say no at any point, regardless of how they dress or act.

Ideally, yes, but this is the real world. By your reasoning, a girl could come round my house, get into my bed, get naked and then scream rape if I touched her.

no, by my reasoning all that could happen and a girl (or boy)could change her mind at the last minute and you have to stop regardless of your expectations.

This isn't about accusations, its about the implication that by going a certain way down a certain path it is your fault if you get raped. Its a line of arguement that needs a boot heel applying to its neck.

You're operating from pure idealism here, assuming that all people are good and decent and will stop regardless of their expectations. I know I wouldn't have that amount of faith in a drunk footballer. Would you?

I'm not saying "she was asking for it, short skirt like that" - I'm saying that the world is a nasty place and people have to take care of themselves, and yes, bear some responsibility for their actions. If someone was waving money around and they got robbed, then while the robber is clearly the guilty party, the person waving their money around must bear some responsibility for the situation, right? Why is it different in cases of rape? Of course the rapist is the guilty party but for example, a single girl (or boy), walking home late at night drunk with no phone and no means of protection is not looking after their own best interests. No-one wants to be robbed and no-one wants to be raped, but if you allow yourself to get into a situation where people can take advantage of you like that then surely you must bear some culpability? You can't assume that everyone you meet is going to be decent and nice and take you back to their hotel room for a cup of tea, a chat and a nice sit down because there are nasty people out there, dude. They have nasty urges and they are looking for an opportunity to vent them. I'm not making excuses for rape, I'm just recognising that it exists, and saying it's something that people can take precautions to avoid. Going back to a drunken man's bedroom is not one of those precautions.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

I agree - in a nice world we could flaunt whatever with no fear of reprecutions. but the truth is we cant.

[Eline]

I'm not saying "she was asking for it, short skirt like that" - I'm saying that the world is a nasty place and people have to take care of themselves, and yes, bear some responsibility for their actions.

The thing is, (young) people don't always know this. Some insights come with age and/or experience.

I myself have never felt unsafe cycling home late at night until I was about 24 years old. And since a friend of mine was raped, I felt even more unsafe.

Nor did I know that when boys say "let's get outside the pub where we can have a more quiet chat" actually meant something else, before my sister pointed that out to me. I'm glad that I learnt it from her and not from personal experience.

And I did not know what effect short skirts have on men when I was 16.


But you never know what happened in this case. She could have wanted a kiss and nothing more, or she regretted what happened the day after, or she really was forced.

[divebomb]

Impactor returns 2.0

Personaly Ronaldo doesnt strike me a rapist, but i can only go on face values.

Whould that be his ugly looking monkey face? Or the one he uses to cheat referees whilst he's diving?



_

[Metal Vendetta]

The thing is, (young) people don't always know this. Some insights come with age and/or experience.

I myself have never felt unsafe cycling home late at night until I was about 24 years old. And since a friend of mine was raped, I felt even more unsafe.

Nor did I know that when boys say "let's get outside the pub where we can have a more quiet chat" actually meant something else, before my sister pointed that out to me. I'm glad that I learnt it from her and not from personal experience.

And I did not know what effect short skirts have on men when I was 16.

But you never know what happened in this case. She could have wanted a kiss and nothing more, or she regretted what happened the day after, or she really was forced.

I mostly don't feel unsafe walking around Camden, but a lot of my female friends will walk home alone after a drink and I insist on walking them back. Mostly they complain and say "But I walk this way by myself all the time." A couple of years ago a girl I knew was murdered walking through a park late at night, and she walked that way all the time. Now obviously it wasn't her fault but if she'd been in a taxi or with a friend she might still be alive today. That's the sort of thing I bear in mind when considering my friends' safety.

Incidentally in Walsall, where I come from, it's not uncommon for girls of about 12+ to carry big knives as a matter of course. Most are bought for them by their mothers. Now that's what I call precautions.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

I never new you were from walsall

[Denyer]

how desperate for cash do you have to be to put yourself through this s***?

Attention and revenge are similarly strong motivators.

At the end of the night, after dinner and drinks? Er, yes. That's the way it works, isn't it?

Occasionally. It's not a contract, implicit or otherwise... payment (or goods in kind) being the legal definition of prostitution, 'n' all that.

[Best First]

Ideally, yes, but this is the real world. By your reasoning, a girl could come round my house, get into my bed, get naked and then scream rape if I touched her.

no, by my reasoning all that could happen and a girl (or boy)could change her mind at the last minute and you have to stop regardless of your expectations.

This isn't about accusations, its about the implication that by going a certain way down a certain path it is your fault if you get raped. Its a line of arguement that needs a boot heel applying to its neck.

You're operating from pure idealism here, assuming that all people are good and decent and will stop regardless of their expectations.

no i am not.

i am not saying don't be careful.

i am saying if you are not careful that does not diminish your status as a victim or diminish the crime of the perpetrator, certain people here seem to be imlying otherwise and it sickens me.

If someone was waving money around and they got robbed, then while the robber is clearly the guilty party, the person waving their money around must bear some responsibility for the situation, right?

in legal terms?

NO.

That's the point.

You need to do a better job seperating your advice out from blaming the victims for not taking it.

You have a go at me for operating on idealism but apparently by your stance everyone is equally intelligent and informed - they aren't and the suggestion that when a crime happens to them because they are more stupid or ignorant it is more their fault is too simplistic to be of any value.

I'm not making excuses for rape, I'm just recognising that it exists, and saying it's something that people can take precautions to avoid. Going back to a drunken man's bedroom is not one of those precautions.

That's not how you started out as i recall, you started out saying it was a set up.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

Its interesting to note that Ronaldo was released but another man was not.

In the eyes of the law you can look at this two ways.

Ron is either guilty, and the women is telling the truth
Ron is not guilty and the women is lying

In which case.

the women is doing the just thing
the women is trying to make some money.

untill it gos to court u can say either idea is wrong or right?
some might say, Ron is a rapist!!! - other will say gold-digger bitch!!!
Both opinions are based on nothing at all I guess, and both are fair to say, but are purely gossip.