Superman Vs the Hulk

[Darth Aux]

I've been reading the PVP archives and this came up in a sketch.

Got me wondering, could the Hulk take Superman? Would Supes steal victory through a Banner appearance? Would the hulk get a Royal kicking?

Any thoughts?

[Impactor returns 2.0]

hnn hard one this ive seen super man lift up things the hulk can only dream about, and supes is pretty much nuke proof, not sure about hulkster ?

[wideload]

didnt they fight in that marvel vs dc comic? the fans got to vote. I'm pretty sure supes cleaned house

[Jazz]

Ok here ya go Superman gets power from the sun Hulk can't block the sun so that = to superman can never die. with that said i end my post.

[jboyler]

Supes would win because he can fly and shoot laserbeams and other cool stufff. Also Hulk only gets strong when he's raging mad. In most versions of the Hulk, he's an ignorant brute. Superman should be able to easily outwit him.

Of course, the same could be said for Doomsday.

-J

[Obfleur]

Isn't Superman to nice to really kick the Hulks ass?
Hulk is (sort of) a good guy after all.

[spiderfrommars]

didnt they fight in that marvel vs dc comic? the fans got to vote. I'm pretty sure supes cleaned house

Yeah Supes won. And it was Brainy Hulk too (when Banner had full control).

That comic was a bit crappy I thought. But everyone who should of won tended to I think.

Or did Cap America beat Batman? Can't remember now.

[Brendocon]

And it was Brainy Hulk too (when Banner had full control).

I think half of what makes the Hulk unstoppable is that Banner isn't in control - it's all instinct and rage. A smart Hulk can overthink things.

That said, I'd always expect Superman to beat him, because Supes is one of those annoying "god" characters who are basically invincible. Booo!

If somebody walked into a MUSH or whatever nowadays and tried to enter a character with Superman's traits, they'd be told to [composite word including 'f*ck'] off. And rightly so.

[Best First]

Hulk would win becuse Superman is a cocky ****er and Hulk would take him by suprise.

or just cos i would prefer it.

not a big fan of Supes.

Thor vs Supes is a better match up though, although i think they got it massively wrong in the Avengers/JLA thingy.

[Obfleur]

I really dislike Superman as well.

It makes The Dark Knight Returns even better.

[Metal Vendetta]

Or did Cap America beat Batman? Can't remember now.

That would be tragic. No-one should be able to beat Batman.

[Obfleur]

Batman can friggin breath in space.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

Hulk would win becuse Superman is a cocky ****er and Hulk would take him by suprise.

or just cos i would prefer it.

not a big fan of Supes.

Thor vs Supes is a better match up though, although i think they got it massively wrong in the Avengers/JLA thingy.

Supes is pretty cool in 'kingdom come'

Batman doesnt dance anymore...

[Best First]

Hulk would win becuse Superman is a cocky ****er and Hulk would take him by suprise.

or just cos i would prefer it.

not a big fan of Supes.

Thor vs Supes is a better match up though, although i think they got it massively wrong in the Avengers/JLA thingy.

Supes is pretty cool in 'kingdom come'

Batman doesnt dance anymore...

Supes is fine in stuff like Kingdom Come because it is a massive story so he fits in and he plays a part in teh ideological contrast, on a day to day comic tale scale though he's a bit too perfect for my liking.

Batman is the freaking don though.

as an aisde isn't it a shamethe X-Men comics are crap these days?

[Impactor returns 2.0]

last I read of the xmen was the Onslaught saga which I loved, not as good as the AoA but it was still enjoyable and i liked all the side plots interweaving with one another.

Batman is always cool as hesbit ecentric (a lot?) well arkham thinks so - anyhows, why doesnt Batman dance anymore?... pure west

[Hound]

xmen is utter poo at the moment. I refuse to buy it (apart from Astonishing)

[Best First]

xmen is utter poo at the moment. I refuse to buy it (apart from Astonishing)

aye. and Exiles.

i bought X-Men for a decade but it got so bad i had to put it down. A sad irony that the man who really made them big is the same guy who is killing them.

[Hound]

so painfully true....

but surely we cant be the only ones that see this??

I despise Claremont's recent work, especially anything that undoes that fantastic Grant Morrison run.

[mikebot]

Superman cleaned The Hulk's clock. Although I'm no fan of Supes he does have the power to move planets. Batman also beat Captain America.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

Batmans a scientist?

[jboyler]

Avengers/JLA is one of the few comics which has actually made me physically ill.

-J

[BB Shockwave]

hnn hard one this ive seen super man lift up things the hulk can only dream about, and supes is pretty much nuke proof, not sure about hulkster ?

Hmm, well it's simple. Supes can fly in orbit and eye-beam Hulk to death, where the big brute can't even reach him. UNfair but racional way...

If you want a close lookalike of things, watch the JL episode "The Terror beyond" or "Only a dream" where Supes pretty much creams Solomon Grundy, and well, Grundy is pretty much the HUlk in white. And undead.

Though in JLU "Wake the dead" after being resurrected by chaos magic, Grundy flattened Superman. And pretty much everyone else. That was some fight, visually...

[Jetfire]

so painfully true....

but surely we cant be the only ones that see this??

I despise Claremont's recent work, especially anything that undoes that fantastic Grant Morrison run.

I thought most of the run was crap actually.

I mean E or extinction was great but empirical was a rehash in space, "Riot at Xaviers", "Planet X"-The worst ever characterisation of Magneto and "Here comes tomorrow" rank as some of the worst X stories I've read. The characterisations were generally terrible, at least Claremont writes them mostly in character (I suspose he pretty much created or did the key developement of all the characters).

On topic. Clearly Superman but there are scenarios in which the Hulk can win.

Both have survived nuclar impacts [/Random factural contrabution]

Seriously, Supes can do anything Hulk can and more. He could fly to space and just Heat blast Hulk until Hulk wears out.

Or did Cap America beat Batman? Can't remember now.

That would be tragic. No-one should be able to beat Batman.

Why? Bats isn't even the best fighter in the DCU. Cap has years of experence, has fought many more tougher hand to hand battles and fought many better and tougher enemies. The super solider sureum basically makes him the best a human can be physically while bats is just a super fit Bruce Wane.

I'm sure in reality Bats would cheat but in hand to hand combat Cap is more likely to win.

[Best First]

so painfully true....

but surely we cant be the only ones that see this??

I despise Claremont's recent work, especially anything that undoes that fantastic Grant Morrison run.

I thought most of the run was crap actually.

I mean E or extinction was great but empirical was a rehash in space, "Riot at Xaviers", "Planet X"-The worst ever characterisation of Magneto and "Here comes tomorrow" rank as some of the worst X stories I've read. The characterisations were generally terrible, at least Claremont writes them mostly in character

"oh dear" is really the only response i can muster to that. We fear change.

Or did Cap America beat Batman? Can't remember now.

That would be tragic. No-one should be able to beat Batman.

Why? Bats isn't even the best fighter in the DCU.

since when?

And since when is 'best fighter' the deciding factor?

Cap has years of experence, has fought many more tougher hand to hand battles and fought many better and tougher enemies. The super solider sureum basically makes him the best a human can be physically while bats is just a super fit Bruce Wane.

so... Cap is the best a human can be whereas Bats is the best Bruce Wayne can be? I see. Vive la difference.

I'm sure in reality Bats would cheat but in hand to hand combat Cap is more likely to win.

[/quote]

why is using his resources (i.e his brian and his ability to plan ahead) cheating whilst having a super soldier serum isn't?

I generally perfer Marvel to DC but Bats should and would beat Cap.

Especially in a personality contest...

Cap is exactly the kind of foe Bats is at ease with, because he is straight forward, if anything Wolverine would be more of a threat to Bat's because he is unpredictable (which is one of the reason's the Joker is such a great foil for Bats).

[Hound]

I thought most of the run was crap actually.

I mean E or extinction was great but empirical was a rehash in space, "Riot at Xaviers", "Planet X"-The worst ever characterisation of Magneto and "Here comes tomorrow" rank as some of the worst X stories I've read. The characterisations were generally terrible, at least Claremont writes them mostly in character (I suspose he pretty much created or did the key developement of all the characters).

Are you being serious? That is like saying that Brad Mick's take on the g1 Transformer characters was better because they read the same way they did 20 years ago.

Characters evolve, grow and change. That is what makes them compelling. Morrison did things that were beyond what was generally expected by Xfans, including myself. I feel patronised by having to read the tat that Claremont thinks we deserve at the moment.

[Best First]

Bingo.

Plus he is recycling his own plotlines for Christ's sake. Its like the comic version of listening to one of the new Oasis albums.

I was gutted to have to stop reading the X-Men, but in the end it was just a flacid comic book with no creative viagra in sight.

Clairemont is pissing on his own work and the work of everyone who came after him, most of whom did a fine job.

[Jetfire]

so painfully true....

but surely we cant be the only ones that see this??

I despise Claremont's recent work, especially anything that undoes that fantastic Grant Morrison run.

I thought most of the run was crap actually.

I mean E or extinction was great but empirical was a rehash in space, "Riot at Xaviers", "Planet X"-The worst ever characterisation of Magneto and "Here comes tomorrow" rank as some of the worst X stories I've read. The characterisations were generally terrible, at least Claremont writes them mostly in character

"oh dear" is really the only response i can muster to that. We fear change.

not at all. Scott Lobdell has easily written the best X-stories of the last 15 years.
Morrison after his first few stories write some really poor stuff. By the way I wasn't intending to praise Claremont whose first return actually stopped me collecting X-men. I was mearly highlighting the poor or missunderstood character work Morrison does on most of his Superhero work. I've refused to read Claremont's post '91 work.

Or did Cap America beat Batman? Can't remember now.

That would be tragic. No-one should be able to beat Batman.

Why? Bats isn't even the best fighter in the DCU.

since when?
[/quote]

Since years ago.
Shiva, Cain, Richard Dragon, Bronz Tiger and Promethus have all handed Batman his ass or beaten one of the above who has handed Bats his arse. Conner Hawke has been implied by Bats himself to be able to best him in combat and Batgirl is susposed to be better too.

And since when is 'best fighter' the deciding factor?

In a direct fight best fighter generally wins if the conditions are fair. Hence I expanded saying Batman wouldn't keep it as a simple fight.

Cap has years of experence, has fought many more tougher hand to hand battles and fought many better and tougher enemies. The super solider sureum basically makes him the best a human can be physically while bats is just a super fit Bruce Wane.

so... Cap is the best a human can be whereas Bats is the best Bruce Wayne can be? I see. Vive la difference.

indeed not everybody can be the fastest runner or strongest man but Cap was created equal to those. Unless Bruce Wayne was casually born the strongest and fastest man in the world than Steve Rogers is superior physically and the more experienced battle tactition.

I'm sure in reality Bats would cheat but in hand to hand combat Cap is more likely to win.

[/quote]

why is using his resources (i.e his brian and his ability to plan ahead) cheating whilst having a super soldier serum isn't?[/quote]

My point was in a 1 on 1 battle Cap would win. In the "Cheating" commen I was mearly saying Batman would have to cheat by using tear gas etc to best cap by other means as in a direct battle the Super solider serum orgives cap an advantage.

The whole "Bats would plan ahead arguement" sill can get run into the ground as everybody who thinks ahead any body can plan ahead and grab a sniper gun to ensure victory or plant a nuclear bomb to ensure a draw.

I generally perfer Marvel to DC but Bats should and would beat Cap.

Especially in a personality contest...

Without a doubt.

Cap is exactly the kind of foe Bats is at ease with, because he is straight forward, if anything Wolverine would be more of a threat to Bat's because he is unpredictable (which is one of the reason's the Joker is such a great foil for Bats).

Cap isn't a straight forward fighter (even if his personality is) and is very hard to trick. Marvel universe has had a lot more better fighters (in part because its more rich in creative villians) than the DCU but Batman has been beat on a number of ocassions. Cap is technically the perfect human, Batman isn't (And yes the serum is essentially cheating-the that wasn't the point it was just a matter of who would win. IMO in direct battle it's Cap with most other considerations its Batman.

[Jetfire]

Clairemont is pissing on his own work and the work of everyone who came after him, most of whom did a fine job.

I agree with that. As mentioned above I wasn't in any way praising any of Claremont's work since 1991.

[Best First]

sorry but i think your assertions about morrison are nonsense - his JLA work is fantastic for example, wh exactly in the X-men did he poorly characterise and how?

If you say Cyclops you may recieve a slap.

As for Batman the fact he has been beaten doesn't mean he's not the best, just that he hasn't always won. He has to lose sometimes or it would be dull. Prometheous is a terrible example as he beat Bats by... using Batman's skills. Cap hasn't always won either.

You don't get born strong or fast either, you train, maybe Cap has a slighlt edge on that front but it is tiny and he's clearly not as smart or equipped for all eventualities as Bats either in terms of kit of mentality. Who is to say rogers experience is greater than Waynes intellect, i.e his ability to learn. If experience was the matter at hand Ra's would win.

And Bat's preparing ahead is not the same as any one preparing ahead, don't disservice the character to suit your arguement.

And Cap is straight forward, because his mentality is, he's a walking flag for Christ's ake - he may be a brillinat fighter, but he wears his mentality on his chest, Bats on the other hand gives little if anything away to anyone.

[Jetfire]

Again Morrisons later JLA work was poor. World war 3 by his own admission was a let down.

Morrisons X-men, after a good start was very poor. Wolverine was hardly a 3D character, his writing on Jean Grey was a "Dark phoenix" wankfest and his Beast, Magneto and at times Xavier in particular were so terribly out of character as not to be the same characters as before.

Don't get me wrong Morrisons first stories on any title tend to be brillinat but they rapidly stem down hill if he has to write 1 book for any length of time.


Back on the Cap/Bats thing.

You don't get born strong or fast either, you train, maybe Cap has a slighlt edge on that front but it is tiny and he's clearly not as smart or equipped for all eventualities as Bats either in terms of kit of mentality. Who is to say rogers experience is greater than Waynes intellect, i.e his ability to learn. If experience was the matter at hand Ra's would win.

Some people, no mantter how hard they train will gain the perfect body or even run an olympian close.

Bats is smaart, and I have long said Bats would over come the challenge in soem way or another, just not in a 1 on 1 combat situation with Cap.

As for Batman the fact he has been beaten doesn't mean he's not the best, just that he hasn't always won. He has to lose sometimes or it would be dull. Prometheous is a terrible example as he beat Bats by... using Batman's skills. Cap hasn't always won either.

From your arguement, well, it makes no sense. It sounds like:
Batman is the best. Just because people can beat him up soundly it doesn't mean he isn't the best fighter.

Personally I'd think it does.

Also you've given no evidence to support it. My arguement has examples in which Batman by his own admission can-not beat in combat or has realised would beat him edventually with su[perior skill that outs does Brune's own (e.g. Connor Hawk). I'm made it very clear that I think while Bats conqure the challenge normally, BUT in a direct fighting situation, 1 on 1, Cap A would best him. The history of both characters indicate this and Captain America has easily though better and smarter opposision in the field.