News: Catholic Church Gives Up

[jboyler]

I'm not making this one up. You can read it at:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 32,00.html

The Times October 05, 2005

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent


THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

This is only the first quarter or so of the entire article. The bottom lists a handful of passages that have been dubbed "True" and "False" by the church.

Is it just me, or has the Catholic Church spent the whole last century saying, "Oh yeah, it turns out we were wrong." ?

-J

[Denyer]

“We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”

[spiderfrommars]

Our chaplain at boarding school also taught Physics!

He said he took Genesis with a pinch of salt.

[Metal Vendetta]

What a pleasantly reassuring turn of events. Well done, the Catholic church.

[Professor Smooth]

Uh...wow.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

good, next step is to realise that religon is root of all evil.

[Kaylee]

good, next step is to realise that religon is root of all evil.

Claiming superiority with no proof is the root of all evil and it's not the sole domain of religion.

[Brendocon]

Yay.

It should be readily apparant to anybody with knowledge of the source material that much of it is literal translation of metaphor, but it's reassuring to see it being acknowledged.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

good, next step is to realise that religon is root of all evil.

Claiming superiority with no proof is the root of all evil and it's not the sole domain of religion.

Can I burn them?

[BB Shockwave]

That's hardly news... the church has been teaching the 'creation' for decades now with the "it didn't happen this way, but it happened" comment. Being catholic I knew that for years. Only fools and fanatics believe the Bible to be a collection of facts... Naturally many facts about things that'd require advanced knowledge of physics or biology are just totally wrong there.

Besides, on theology they taught us that what parts of Josephus Flavius's: "The Jew wars" were edited later by the church. YEp, they put in there parts that mention Jesus Christ whom Flavius must have heard about but didn't wrote much about - so the church edited the text.

[sprunkner]

Is it just me, or has the Catholic Church spent the whole last century saying, "Oh yeah, it turns out we were wrong." ?

It seems that most religions end up doing that a lot...

[Metal Vendetta]

And yet people still believe in them...

[Best First]

man i'm hungover.

anyway, its not really the Catholic church though is it? Just the twee british bit.

[BB Shockwave]

And yet people still believe in them...

Well, you feel any better knowing that after you die, you go to feed the worms?

I'd even worship Anubis rather then be an atheist. Makes life seem quite pointless... (okey,that was joke. There are more serious reasons to as why I'm a catholic - and no, it's not the "every sperm is sacred" song).

[Predabot]

Well, I guess some good could come of this, no? Might make some people, somewhere loosen up a bit? Seems good.

Claiming superiority with no proof is the root of all evil and it's not the sole domain of religion.

Karl, you just hit the head of the proverbial pin. ( <- why haven't I used this smilie prior? )

It's beliefs that may make people intollerant, or make them excuse destructive behaviour. If humans don't believe in an all-mighty entity regulating the ebb and flow of the cosmos, or in a meta-physical central intelligence for all form of sentience, they're going to believe in something else.

People want to believe. Until someone gives humankind something better, more passionatly inspiring than various forms of religion to believe in, it's going to continue to exist. Sorry, Mr. "god-fiend."


PS: Buddhism is a religion.

[Laserwave]

Well, there you go. Let`s hope the catholics decide that wanting to burn us pagans is wrong next.

I`m not holding my breath, though.

[Guest]

man i'm hungover.

anyway, its not really the Catholic church though is it? Just the twee british bit.

It's like the Protestant Movement all over again, only this time they'd be the Progressive Movement.

[Best First]

And yet people still believe in them...

Well, you feel any better knowing that after you die, you go to feed the worms?

I'd even worship Anubis rather then be an atheist. Makes life seem quite pointless...

Thats because in some ways it is.

[Kaylee]

And yet people still believe in them...

Well, you feel any better knowing that after you die, you go to feed the worms?

I'd even worship Anubis rather then be an atheist. Makes life seem quite pointless...

Thats because in some ways it is.

chin up

And Buddhism is considered a philosophy to differentiate it from religion which normally implies Gods, afterlives, Demons and so forth. Saying otherwise doesn't make it true.

[Predabot]

And Buddhism is considered a philosophy to differentiate it from religion which normally implies Gods,

Whu..?! No gods?

afterlives,

Huh, so you can't be sent to hellor some other netherworld for your evil ways? Well, so we thought, but according to this, now we can. Doesn't look so bad really.

Demons

Oh my stars, that's great! No demons what-so-ever!

and so forth. Saying otherwise doesn't make it true.

Phew! No ghosts or anything! I'm glad you properly informed me Karly, so that I'm not living in an uninformed fantasy-world of what is called Buddhism.


I love it when I get to play Rebis.

[Jetfire]

What a pleasantly reassuring turn of events. Well done, the Catholic church.

Indeed.

Strangely many actural church's (but not the organisations) have done this for years. I recall 2 ministers through out child hood church going days who had no problem with evolution, gays etc. Only the political body was involved in that bit. But we all know politics is bad.

[Best First]

Well, you feel any better knowing that after you die, you go to feed the worms?

I'd even worship Anubis rather then be an atheist. Makes life seem quite pointless...

Thats because in some ways it is.

chin up

didn't mean in a negative way, just that its argueably better to face that fact than invest potentialy destructive power in fairy stories.

[Kaylee]

And Buddhism is considered a philosophy to differentiate it from religion which normally implies Gods,

Whu..?! No gods?

afterlives,

Huh, so you can't be sent to hellor some other netherworld for your evil ways? Well, so we thought, but according to this, now we can. Doesn't look so bad really.

Demons

Oh my stars, that's great! No demons what-so-ever!

and so forth. Saying otherwise doesn't make it true.

Phew! No ghosts or anything! I'm glad you properly informed me Karly, so that I'm not living in an uninformed fantasy-world of what is called Buddhism.


I love it when I get to play Rebis.

You're using English words to represent concepts which are different from their generally accepted meaning. A Buddhist 'God' is entirely different from the Christian God (for example) as a God in Buddhism is literally a Buddha- a teacher. That is how I refer to them to save exactly this type of misleading discussion.

Exactly the same responses to everything else you posted really. If you take the time to read about it properly I don't need to correct you. Try this for a good start (i.e. an author with authority on the subject).

[Guest]

As can be shown by innumerate examples, a little knowledge can oft be a dangerous thing.

I love it when I get to play Rebis.

I'll believe that when I see it.

[Predabot]

You're using English words to represent concepts which are different from their generally accepted meaning. A Buddhist 'God' is entirely different from the Christian God (for example) as a God in Buddhism is literally a Buddha- a teacher. That is how I refer to them to save exactly this type of misleading discussion.

Exactly the same responses to everything else you posted really. If you take the time to read about it properly I don't need to correct you. Try this for a good start (i.e. an author with authority on the subject).

I did read trough all of the things I just posted. And yes, the concepts vary slightly to very different from the christian and so-on concepts (such as the buddhas not acctually being truly immortal, nor all-powerful. But then again, so are other gods too, like the norse ones, but still, they are far more than human. In both cases.)

What I find really interesting is the blue, fat lad the wrathful form of Vajrapani, that is the embodiment of the infinite combined power of the buddhas. I'm afraid that I've seen and heard enough from various sources trougout the years, to enable me to say without any shame or greater doubt that Buddhism is more of a religion than it is like a philosophy, like say, existentialism.

But, in order to see your point, I will tomorrow click your link, Karl. As it is far too late in the night (2am) local time, to dvelve into such things wich require a good use of the mental capacities.

[Metal Vendetta]

I'd even worship Anubis rather then be an atheist. Makes life seem quite pointless...

[Best First]

also in relation to that comment, why not just be agnostic?

eh?

[Brendocon]

Thats because in some ways it is.

chin up

didn't mean in a negative way, just that its argueably better to face that fact than invest potentialy destructive power in fairy stories.

My attitude towards the whole thing basically boils down to:

- There's no afterlife
- I'm not getting reincarnated
- There's no great big karmic cookie for me

All I've got/will have is this. All I'll have when I die is what people remember of me. So I may as well try and make a difference and be good to folks now.

"If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."

Religion gets people scrambling about for a purpose so that they won't be punished in the next life. I think it's far easier to live a good life once that pressure's off.

Try your best. Okay, you won't get into heaven because of it. But you won't go to hell if you [composite word including 'f*ck'] it up.

[Kaylee]

You're using English words to represent concepts which are different from their generally accepted meaning. A Buddhist 'God' is entirely different from the Christian God (for example) as a God in Buddhism is literally a Buddha- a teacher. That is how I refer to them to save exactly this type of misleading discussion.

Exactly the same responses to everything else you posted really. If you take the time to read about it properly I don't need to correct you. Try this for a good start (i.e. an author with authority on the subject).

I did read trough all of the things I just posted. And yes, the concepts vary slightly to very different from the christian and so-on concepts (such as the buddhas not acctually being truly immortal, nor all-powerful. But then again, so are other gods too, like the norse ones, but still, they are far more than human. In both cases.)

Buddha is (or was) human. That is the point of the whole philosophy. Subjectivity in action- "Yes well I think they're only slightly different."

Standard God template- all powerful or exceedingly powerful with magic to manipulate reality normally living in some far away world.
Buddha- human who has achieved enlightenment, living in our world as a teacher.

Your sources could do with updating if you think those are slight differences. That's my subjective opinion. My link is to a book by a renown Buddhist Monk (the head of the Jampel order).

What I find really interesting is the blue, fat lad the wrathful form of Vajrapani, that is the embodiment of the infinite combined power of the buddhas. I'm afraid that I've seen and heard enough from various sources trougout the years, to enable me to say without any shame or greater doubt that Buddhism is more of a religion than it is like a philosophy, like say, existentialism.

Your sources sound different to anything I've studied, but what do I know about it eh?

But, in order to see your point, I will tomorrow click your link, Karl. As it is far too late in the night (2am) local time, to dvelve into such things wich require a good use of the mental capacities.

Oh. Joy.

Proof that I'm an awful Buddhist: my total lack of patience with some individuals.

[Brendocon]

Proof that I'm an awful Buddhist: my total lack of patience with some individuals.

Which would you rather be? An awful Buddhist or a good Catholic?