Spiderman 3

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:16 pm

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/653/653818p1.html

Venom and Sandman...

**** hot, Venom is cool!!!

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:24 pm

And Hobgoblin's supposed to be in it, too.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:52 pm

I hope they don't over do it, I love the Spiderman films.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:27 pm

I've thought Sandman would be perfect for a movie villain all along. A real T1000 type nemesis... lets hope Spidey doesn't simply resort to using a hoover like he did in the comic.

Venom will be trickier to pull off.

I was hoping Harry Osborn's arc might get tied up in this one.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:28 pm

maybe that will always be sort of a side-arc ?

Post by **Best First** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:28 pm

Hound wrote:I hope they don't over do it, I love the Spiderman films.

yeah, i don't want it to turn into some ballache Shumacher free for all.

i think Venom is a bit over rated myself.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:36 pm

I like his design tho - but I think Carnage is the daddy

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:02 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:
I was hoping Harry Osborn's arc might get tied up in this one.

It will be... he'll be the Hobgoblin. I know, was not in the comic, but after what Harry said/saw in SM 2, it's the logical turn of events.

I don'T know jack about Sandman. Anyone can clue me in?

I really hope this gets better then SM 2, which was really, really boring... why is it that Marvel movies always end up worse then DC's? (Hulk, Daredevil,Fantastic Four -gah- X-men was not that bad, though).

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:08 pm

BB Shockwave wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:

I really hope this gets better then SM 2, which was really, really boring... why is it that Marvel movies always end up worse then DC's? (Hulk, Daredevil,Fantastic Four -gah- X-men was not that bad, though).

What DC movies were better than Daredevil, Hulk, and Fantastic Four? Batman Begins, of course, but what else?

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:10 pm

The old Superman movies. At least, I liked most of them....

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:26 pm

Spiderman 2 was excellent. A super hero film with heart.

The 'rain drops keep falling on my head' scene never fails to raise a smile

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:57 pm

BB Shockwave wrote:It will be... he'll be the Hobgoblin. I know, was not in the comic

I personally like this idea very much. And if it pisses off some fanboys, all the better.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:08 pm

Venom's *****.

"Oh, he's like... like Spider-Man. But evil. Because he's got Spider-Man's powers. And in, like... in a way... he actually used to be Spider-Man. Oh yeah - and his costume/whatever? It's black, dude! That's just the ubercool!"

[composite word including 'f*ck'] off, fanboy. He's an evil clone of the main character. Which, let's face it, is dull, unoriginal and clichéd beyond belief.

[composite word including 'f*ck'].

I mean who here gave a crap about Black LioConvoy? Nemesis Prime in Armada? Black Convoy in Car Robots? Why? Because it's Prime, but evil and black? Boring!

Or maybe I'm just jaded. Which would be cool, because I'd rather be green than black. And I don't mean that in a racist way, I mean that in a done-to-death plot-contrivance kinda way.

Black eHobby Starscream?

Post by **Best First** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:12 pm

Is that a really long winded way of saying you want to be the Hulk?

Spiderman 2 was ace by the way.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:51 pm

Topher Grace is Venom?

But he was the wimpy Eric Foreman in That 70's Show, wasn't he?

Surely he'd be better suited, visually, to play a Carnage than a Venom?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:58 pm

Brendocon wrote:I mean who here gave a crap about Black LioConvoy? Nemesis Prime in Armada? Black Convoy in Car Robots? Why? Because it's Prime, but evil and black? Boring!

Um, I got the Black Convoy toy. It is really cool, and I didn't have a Laser Rod Optimus back then, so that's ok, right?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:03 am

But I still like venom, he looks freaking cool - and evil spidy, oh sod it. comics are cliched.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:48 am

The Venom character, before he became the Wolverine of the 90's, was an amazing piece of work. I'm not sure if you know how difficult it is to come up with a new villian that's actually worth a damn for characters that've been around for decades, but it's f'n difficult. Spider-Man, for example was more or less stuck with the Ditko villains for about 25 years and has had exactly 2 more new guys that have come around that fans care about since then. Hobgoblin (if you haven't read the early Hobgoblin stuff, you're missing out), and Venom. Venom was no simply "Black Spider-Man" he was a completely different character...who happened upon Spidey's powers. A character who didn't do what he did for personal gain or because he was crazy with power. A character who's literally 2 steps away from being a superhero.

The McFarlane/Larson Venom stuff was spectacular. Hell, even as far as the early Bagley Venom was a great character. Bendis' Venom on the other hand...pretty 2 dimensional.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:06 am

Professor Smooth wrote:
The McFarlane/Larson Venom stuff was spectacular. Hell, even as far as the early Bagley Venom was a great character. Bendis' Venom on the other hand...pretty 2 dimensional.

I wasn't down with Ultimate Venom. The original really gave a lot of strength to the series, and even though he returned every ten issues, was always creepy. The fact that he came after Mary Jane was great... I hope he throws that annoying Dunst out a window.

And Spidey 2 ties with X-men 2 for best superhero flick, after Batman Begins.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:08 am

sprunkner wrote:
And Spidey 2 ties with X-men 2 for best superhero flick, after Batman Begins.

Yeah, that's about right. Those 3 movies were all better than they had any right to be.

Jazz · Post by **Jazz** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:16 am

Lets see Flash Thompson aka Sandman, Eddie Broke aka Venom sounds good just as long as it looks like it's supose too.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:10 am

I could so be the Hulk.

Brend smash!

Or something.

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Brendocon wrote:I mean who here gave a crap about Black LioConvoy? Nemesis Prime in Armada? Black Convoy in Car Robots? Why? Because it's Prime, but evil and black? Boring!
Um, I got the Black Convoy toy. It is really cool, and I didn't have a Laser Rod Optimus back then, so that's ok, right?

Yeah, that's okay because it's an ace toy.

I meant character-wise.

If Car Robots were just a 'toon without a toyline I doubt anybody bar the really annoying fanboys would give a toss.

I mean people laugh at the concept of Reverse Convoy. But I bet you if he'd been done in black, half the fandom would be wanking over the idea.

Smooth wrote: I'm not sure if you know how difficult it is to come up with a new villian that's actually worth a damn for characters that've been around for decades, but it's f'n difficult. Spider-Man, for example was more or less stuck with the Ditko villains for about 25 years and has had exactly 2 more new guys that have come around that fans care about since then.

Oh, I've no doubt that as Spidey villains go Venom was a breath of fresh air and a unique twist (on a potentially stale by then formula?). And I know that Brock is an interesting character in his own right. I just get pissed off by everybody fawning over Venom and screaming for him to be in everything.

I have the same problem with Dark Phoenix. Jean seemingly dies at the end of X2, and suddenly everybody's screaming for Dark Phoenix in X3? Why? Because it's an iconic character? Because it's evil and Claremont did it? Because the whole notion of the Phoenix has been overexposed? Because the cosmic force makes no sense in the context of the first two films?

What? Where was I?

Oh yeah. Rush-job, over-exposed concept, too many fanboys wanking over the notion. I won't dispute Venom as a character in his own right, but most of the love I see for him seems to stem not from the character, but because he's (in basic premise) an evil version of Spidey. Which, at base level, stinks of fanwank.

And this is where the whole Phoenix parallel comes into it: I don't think it's the sort of villain that works to just be introduced and dealt with in one movie.

Venom was an interesting character (not concept!) because Brock hated Spider-Man. I really can't see them establishing that level of hate for him from a brand new character and making him Venom in the same film and have it not be rubbish. Of course I'd love to be proven wrong.

I'd love even more for them to do something original and not retread the same tried and tested formula in every media. I don't know how long it took them in the 90s cartoon, but they didn't seem to hang about in Ultimate Spidey, nor are they doing so in the Movie. It seems that they just can't wait to break Venom out of the box... which smells to me of a lack of ideas.

Making Jameson's kid Venom would have been an interesting twist, seeing as he's got a legit reason to think Spider-Man ruined part of his life already. Original, and makes sense in the context, as he's an astronaut and stuff.

I also don't like the idea of introducing alien life into the film series. Everything so far has been grounded somewhat in science. Makes me uncomfortable.

Venom's one of those things (like the Phoenix) that has name value, and therefore they seem determined to do it straight away. Like Mad Brick trying to recreate the Movie in comic form as soon as possible, rather than doing something new. He knew it was popular, therefore he tried it and ended up producing rubbish.

... tangent: Anybody else getting pissed off with people crying because [insert a dozen characters here] won't be in X3? From the looks of it, they're going down the "good Phoenix" route for the third movie. Which is good. Dark Phoenix only really works in my eyes when you've established the super-charged biddy as a good-guy (and I know Jean's already established as a hero, I mean whilst Phoenixed up). Though I'm nervous as to how they're going to handle it, being as the comic run retconned her to be an entirely different being. I don't like the idea of aliens in it, dammit.

All comments about Venom being rushed out because of a lack of ideas also apply to Phoenix, incidentally. Though I may have said that already. Yes, I'm rambling by now. Feel free to ignore me, most of you do anyway.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:47 am

It's a sad day when I can't be bothered to register the username Dark Brendocon for a one-post joke...

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:04 am

I think there's plenty of old-school Spidey villains to stick with for now. That said, Sandman is pretty bland personality-wise, so having another villain to provide the grit makes sense. Just not sure Venom fits the tone of the series so far.

However, I do have every faith in Raimi. Apparently this will be the last Spidey film he'll direct.

Spidey 2's the best comic film ever.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:28 am

spiderfrommars wrote:Spidey 2's the best comic film ever.

Mystery Men, bitch.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:58 am

Howard the Duck?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:02 pm

Superman 2

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:17 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Superman 2

Son of Jor-El. KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 pm

I was excited about Venom because id love to see how the special effects were done...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:28 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:
Metal Vendetta wrote:Superman 2
Son of Jor-El. KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!

"Oh. My. God." "Zod."

Brendocon wrote:I also don't like the idea of introducing alien life into the film series. Everything so far has been grounded somewhat in science. Makes me uncomfortable.

Venom originally began as a by-product of the Beyonder's first outing.

Hopefully Spider-Man 4 (if there will be one) won't be a Secret War.

spiderfrommars wrote:I think there's plenty of old-school Spidey villains to stick with for now. That said, Sandman is pretty bland personality-wise, so having another villain to provide the grit makes sense. Just not sure Venom fits the tone of the series so far.

Hmm. Not sure I agree with the bland Sandman comment. His history is a somewhat spotted affair: Founding member of the Frightful Four, went alone against Spidey, gave up crime, sacrificed himself to defeat Hydro-man and ended up in the Mudman amalgam, revived and joined Silver Sable's mercs.

Plus, if anyone's familiar with the short-lived Webspinners series, there's quite a bit of potential for screwing around with his sandiness.

Btw, does this mean Raimi's dropped the Harry Osborn/Goblin thread?