Ashely Cole

If the Ivory Tower is the brain of the board, and the Transformers discussion is its heart, then General Discussions is the waste disposal pipe. Or kidney. Or something suitably pulpy and soft, like 4 week old bananas.

Moderators:Best First, spiderfrommars, IronHide

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:
Ashely Cole

Post by Best First » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:22 am

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Sto ... 81,00.html

what a whiney little tart.

So he is found guilty but it is Arsenal's fault and they have bretrayed him? I think you will fidn it is the other way round. Shut up mate.
Image

snarl
Over Pompous Autobot Commander
Posts:2646
Joined:Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:London

Post by snarl » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:10 am

He's a ****, he and Chelsea are to blame, although I'd put it on him more.

Arsenal should tell him to [composite word including 'f*ck'] off asap.

Chelsea have [composite word including 'f*ck'] Arsenal here. I feel they're trying to do the same to us now, the lousy *****.
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:38 pm

yeah well they can sponge who they like now, get finned what they want and generally buy the oppostion out of the game.
Image

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by Best First » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:51 pm

i love Man U fans getting all uptight about Chelsea. :D

Serioulsy the FA need to introduce panalties that actually... you know...penalise.
Image

User avatar
Brendocon
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:5299
Joined:Tue Sep 19, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:UK

Post by Brendocon » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:11 pm

I got a letter printed in The Fiver on Thursday. I think it was the dig at Souness that got it in... though they spelt my name wrong. :(
Grrr. Argh.

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:26 pm

Best First wrote:i love Man U fans getting all uptight about Chelsea. :D

Serioulsy the FA need to introduce panalties that actually... you know...penalise.
I think Arsenal fans are more uptight at the moment.

I recently hear United board quite liked Chelski being around because before that when United came asking for a player at a club, the club would go oh hes £10 mill, oh sorry its united, sorry hes £20 mill...

Its like they have taken some of the transfer heat of united now.

United have never been in the postion Chelski have tho, they have near unlimited funds and like you say, if they are gonna fine them, then like fine them proper, the £250k they fined them the other day is like fineing me £2.50 or somthing equally daft.
Image

User avatar
Brendocon
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:5299
Joined:Tue Sep 19, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:UK

Post by Brendocon » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:47 pm

As much as I disagree with the rules of the transfer system, all the clubs implicitly agree to abide by it by being members of the FA/UEFA/FIFA/WHATEFA.

If they disagree with the rules, bring it up at an AGM or whatever.

I think it was Sepp Blatter threw about the suggestion that clubs who break the transfer rules should be blocked from making transfers. Seems fair to me... it's the only language a lot of them can understand. Of course any such block could be torn to shreds by a lawyer who has half a clue what they're doing...
Grrr. Argh.

snarl
Over Pompous Autobot Commander
Posts:2646
Joined:Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:London

Post by snarl » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:09 pm

I think sport should be exempt from normal employment rules.

I dont see football players as members of staff, more as specialist parts to a machine.

Tapping up a player in football is not like headhunting a top lawyer - it's more like software theft.

IMO.

Chelsea taking Arneson... is ******* amazing. As Spurs are concerned, he knows... THE ******* LOT. Contract details, who we're after... Our two best players are finalising big contracts with the ****... has he stuck contractual clauses in there to go to Chelsea and activate them?

They should have the ******* book thrown at them.
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:17 pm

its like robben at chelski by all accounts he was a united player with a house in manc land, then suddenyl the deal falls through, with kenyon.... oh well, butthen Kenyon leaves and turns up at chelski, few months later, surprise robben is there too...

And now you have this young nigerian player olsen whos going through the same thing, all very strange...
Image

User avatar
Brendocon
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:5299
Joined:Tue Sep 19, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:UK

Post by Brendocon » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:18 pm

snarl wrote:I think sport should be exempt from normal employment rules.

I dont see football players as members of staff, more as specialist parts to a machine.

Tapping up a player in football is not like headhunting a top lawyer - it's more like software theft.

IMO.
Should be, yeah. Unfortunately they're professionals who get paid a wage, and therefore it gets covered by regular employment law.

Though, taking a moral view rather than a legal view, if you sign a contract with somebody it should be ******* honoured. Regardless of what industry you work in. If working conditions take a dive, you can ask to leave; if another employer comes in for you the current employer should be able to block it - after all, you've signed an agreement that you're going to spend the next X years working for them.

You can always resign and take thirty days gardening leave. But they can't do that because their contracts say they can't... contracts that the idiots signed knowing the clause was in there.

Morally it's ridiculous. Legally it's shaky, though the acceptance of the contractual terms should be a valid defence, the existence of those clauses is on dodgy legal ground.

The whole Player Registration thing is gonna be the breaker. That's what the money changes hands for. They should either class them as proper employees, or make them play on amateur forms. That way the players would be forced to get a job and live in the real world for a bit...
Grrr. Argh.

User avatar
Jetfire
Help! I have a man for a head!
Posts:952
Joined:Thu Nov 09, 2000 12:00 am
Location:London,Britain

Post by Jetfire » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:00 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:its like robben at chelski by all accounts he was a united player with a house in manc land, then suddenyl the deal falls through, with kenyon.... oh well, butthen Kenyon leaves and turns up at chelski, few months later, surprise robben is there too...

And now you have this young nigerian player olsen whos going through the same thing, all very strange...
Yeah. Very suspicious. First hes like "I'm a Utd man" and then he disapears and suddleny hes Chelski. Though to be fair man Utd have bene caught tapping players (Stamp etc) and have never had points deducted or a serious fine and they can't complain.

However Arsenal and Spurs have every f##king right to be livid at Chelski. Chelski ahve a pretty sinister program going. Their cash isn't made from the game or generated from the club and if the FA did a check up on Abromivitch before hand he wouldn't legally be allowed to buy chelsea in the first place.
ImageImage

Transformers: Arsenal fans in disgise

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:06 pm

considering how he made his money (declaring his state tax free!!! - the leaving with 'his' states local commidity and buying somthing so public no one could ever pull and underhand trick on him like the KJB did on the other russian oil barron) he would be allowed in to football.

I understand United are no saints when it comes to buying players but I dont belive they have been accused of somthing similar to coles case? - i know they have pulled some sneaky ones, but inside the transfer window.

Like rob was saying watch how spurs deals suddenly end up in chelsea pockets now.
Image

Getaway
Got turned into the Spacebridge
Posts:100
Joined:Fri Apr 20, 2001 11:00 pm
Location:York, England

Post by Getaway » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:33 pm

Rather than ban Chelsea from making transfers they mights give them a points deduction - so say they were found guilty on the Arnesen thing could start next season at minus 3 points - with an extra 3 points deducted every time they or anyone else gets caught

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by Best First » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:03 am

why the **** do Chelsea want Spurs targets?
Image

snarl
Over Pompous Autobot Commander
Posts:2646
Joined:Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:London

Post by snarl » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:19 am

Not necessarily targets, but we have a core of young English players that would interest them.
Image

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by Best First » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:34 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: I understand United are no saints when it comes to buying players but I dont belive they have been accused of somthing similar to coles case? - i know they have pulled some sneaky ones, but inside the transfer window.
So essentially...

its fine as long as you get away with it.

United have been accused oftapping up loads of times, they just weren't as stupid as Kenyon has been this time round.

What club was he at previoulsy again?

Fail to see whether you act illegally within or without the transfer window having any bearing on it either.
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:46 am

it does matter if you act inside or outside the transfer window, even in the FA's eyes because when you cause club disruption mid-season the damage is evident.

As for whats right wrong and such, being a Man United fan, and having already said we are no saints, ill guess ill have to defend all guilty parties involved.

so here gos, Like you say Kenyon was stupid, he did it in public view... On jimmy hills football supplement, martin samuel put simply.

"we know this gos on all the time, the difference being, why didnt kenyon jsut pick up the phone like everyone else?"

Out of interest, who in the past say 10 years has United 'tapped' up in an illegal fashion exactly? - the only one I can think of was diego Forlan where they swooped in and pinched him from Boro?
Image

User avatar
Brendocon
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:5299
Joined:Tue Sep 19, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:UK

Post by Brendocon » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:52 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:it does matter if you act inside or outside the transfer window, even in the FA's eyes because when you cause club disruption mid-season the damage is evident.
Your argument falls apart here, mate. There are two transfer windows, one of which is slap bang in the middle of the season.

I think the distinction you're trying to make is between disregarding the rules in the close season and disregarding the rules during the season. Transfer windows are completely irrelevant to it... as should be the close season, because the rules (whether I agree with them or not!) apply throughout the entire year.
Grrr. Argh.

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by Best First » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:58 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: ill have to defend all guilty parties
er...
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:00 am

thats probably what im trying to define.

Im not arguing over if its right or wrong and what ppl are doing, im thier does seem to be times when transfers can be more disruptive. the Cole thing came at a time when Arsenal were trying to keep pace with Chelski and the whole incident deff helped scupper Arsenals chances

Big name/money transfers dont tend to take place in the middle season transfer window much?

-edit.

Essentially what im saying is that for £300'000 you can tap up a player either in the summer window, or in the title race.

Same crime, Same fine - but the the outcome is surely worse?
Image

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by Best First » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:34 am

it deff scuppered aresnal's chances?

Arsenal had already imploded somewhat at that point - ever since you beat them.

It may have played a part but there is nothing definite about it.
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:38 am

thats why I added my get out clause word of 'deff helped scuppered'

Im just saying that the postion Chelski are in now is that with all of £300k fines been thrown about :o they can essentially tap players up, mess with team moral at crucial points of the season.

In contrast if the tapping up saga had happened in the summer, I doubt as much fuss would have been made.
Image

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by Best First » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:45 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:thats why I added my get out clause word of 'deff helped scuppered'.
but how can you prove it definitely helped?

Arse were playing crap at that point anyway - if anything they improved since the initial story came out.

Chelsea should be penalised in a manner that will hurt i agree, but as far as i am concerned the timing is rather irrelevant.

The only thing i would question is waiting until the end of the season to punish the respective parties, but docking Chelsea 3 points would not actually have made any difference anyway as it turns out.
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:39 am

but had they been docked 3 points at the time, I recall thinking United could go level with them.
the pressure might have been different - that and United losing to Norwich...

I think timming does play a factor at that lvl.
Image

User avatar
Brendocon
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:5299
Joined:Tue Sep 19, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:UK

Post by Brendocon » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:48 am

So clubs should be allowed to tap-up in the summer? Meaning that teams start the season with unsettled players and a feeling of resentment in the locker room?

There's never a good time to have disharmony.

Rules that everyone agrees to abide by are rules that everybody agrees to abide by. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it at certain times of the year solely on the basis that they've been getting away with it in the past.

Would as much fuss have been made if it occured in the summer? That's down to Arsenal and the media. The papers have more space to fill in the close season. Arsenal lodged a complaint, that's about as much fuss as they can make. The League whacked Chelsea with a fine and a suspended points deduction should it happen again.

When it happened wouldn't make any difference to Arsenal's reaction, nor Chelsea's punishment. It's a suspended penalty, so they themselves pretty much dictate when they get hit with it. And the deduction wouldn't have been made until the hearing, which was only recent - that's the fault of the PL.

So the point of contention should actually be whether the Prem League should have held the hearing immediately or not. And isn't one of Arsenal's top bods a high ranking whatever on the PL commitee?
Grrr. Argh.

User avatar
Jetfire
Help! I have a man for a head!
Posts:952
Joined:Thu Nov 09, 2000 12:00 am
Location:London,Britain

Post by Jetfire » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:21 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
Out of interest, who in the past say 10 years has United 'tapped' up in an illegal fashion exactly? - the only one I can think of was diego Forlan where they swooped in and pinched him from Boro?
Japp Stamp admitted it. Rememebr fergy promptly shipping him out soon after.

Man Utd were chasing Vieria and Arsenal said they could have done Man Utd for tapping up unless they back off.

Previously Kenchelksis (can't spell it but right winger back in 94ish) admitted being tapped up and several others but I completly forgte who.
ImageImage

Transformers: Arsenal fans in disgise

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:25 pm

stam was shipped out because he wrote a book slagging everyone off.

the viera thing, its common knowledge that United have held an interest in him
and andreai - god knows.

Would need to see some pretty decent proof on the above two. saying u like a player isnt a crime.
Image

User avatar
Jetfire
Help! I have a man for a head!
Posts:952
Joined:Thu Nov 09, 2000 12:00 am
Location:London,Britain

Post by Jetfire » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:44 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Would need to see some pretty decent proof on the above two. saying u like a player isnt a crime.
Stam's own words while he was still at the club not proof enough?
ImageImage

Transformers: Arsenal fans in disgise

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:16 pm

Never saw that
Image

User avatar
Jetfire
Help! I have a man for a head!
Posts:952
Joined:Thu Nov 09, 2000 12:00 am
Location:London,Britain

Post by Jetfire » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:54 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Never saw that
:wtf:

It was all over the news. It was hugh and everybody knew about it. Little or nothing was ever said of his slagging off others it as was all about Fergy's illegal approach:

http://www.soccernet.com/england/news/2 ... lazio.html
The news comes two weeks after the 29-year-old defender published his controversial autobiography and follows his omission from the United squads against Blackburn and Aston Villa.

It includes accusations that United boss Sir Alex Ferguson 'tapped him up' and criticisms of some Old Trafford team-mates

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/ ... 27,00.html
Kenyon faced similar accusations at Old Trafford when he signed the likes of Juan Sebastian Véron, Ferdinand and Cristiano Ronaldo

Face it. Several (ex) Man Utd players have admitted they were tapped uo befor ejoining. Man Utd have persistently had accusations of similar thinsg with many other big signings. It 's apparent that it is or was common practice for them.
ImageImage

Transformers: Arsenal fans in disgise

Post Reply