Girl wins right to wear muslim dress in school.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:05 pm

hmm - stupid. now every school kid in the land will take off thier uniform and wear what they like proclaiming its thier 'religous right'

Im sorry - but if you go to a school where they have a uniform, you have to respect thier traditions first.

Apart from the obvious logic behind it, now school kids being rebels by nature, will just do as they please. - stupid.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:13 pm

It's not a case of it being her "religious right." It can be proven to be part of her culture. She's got a right to an education, and the school disliking her religious/cultural beliefs shouldn't stand in the way.

It hardly gives the brats the right to turn up wearing whatever they want. She's been granted dispensation to wear a specific outfit because that's what her religion dictates she wears.

Doesn't automatically mean kids can turn up in jeans claiming that their religion demands it, as it can be proven that it's not the case.

but if you go to a school where they have a uniform, you have to respect thier traditions first.

Their cultural traditions are more important than some bloke in an office somewhere trying to create an army of clones.

[this post brought to you by the religion+culture-free Brendocon Party. The views expressed above are not influenced by anything other than the notion of "let people do what they want, so long as it's not hurting anybody, for [composite word including 'f*ck']'s sake"]

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:15 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds ... 310545.stm for those interested...

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:32 pm

Religon ****s me off period.

Id become a budist monk and wear a robe to school - respect my religon!!!

Gekigengar · Post by **Gekigengar** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:33 pm

This is is my .02 cents, schillings, euros, yens, peso, gold, copper, etc... I don't know what school regs are in Europe especially between public and private schools... but I asume that the girl went to a more public than private school and probably should be allowed to wear what her religion dictates. However in a more private school, you are paying for education from their institution and must abide by their rules. I don't believe the government has much to say other than ensuring the students are being treated respectfully as far as education, punishment and well being of the student and should not be concerned to what a student wears, other than what is dictated and defined at the school.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:41 pm

Gekigengar wrote:However in a more private school, you are paying for education from their institution and must abide by their rules.

Pretty much. Whereas I think she was one of the many who get told "you're entitled to an education, this is the school you have to go to." (or words to that effect... catchment areas, quotas and other blah get involved).

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:46 pm

Brend's first post

Thanks for the link, Spidey...

impactor returns wrote:Religon ****s me off period.

Id become a budist monk and wear a robe to school - respect my religon!!!

Yeah, somehow I doubt that'd fly.

I'd probably say more/will say more later but right now it's ******* early...

Though, just for info... what's the tradition behind the uniforms?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:50 pm

she went to a nice school from what I saw not public but a good one.

I dunno, essentially her right to wear her "uniform" is more important then the schools right to have thier "uniform" respected.

Because one is religous in value its worth more weight.

Just think its bollox she should have respect for the school. wearing a sodding dress or not wearing one doesnt mean her religous belifes are being opressed, its a ******* dress.

if she wants to understand what a 'multi-cultural' society is like, maybe she should try some others out then.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:53 pm

saysadie wrote:
Brend's first post

ditto.

religion pisses me off as well by and large but i don't see the resoloution to that as stomping on people's basic rights.

As for whoe traditions came first, i'm fairly sure a several thousand year old religion would win over my local comp...

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:54 pm

saysadie wrote: Though, just for info... what's the tradition behind the uniforms?

Well lots of schools have uniforms, they date right back normally, and generally have a logo and colours that represent the school.

Next time i play football im going in a dress or a robe or somthing else.

If I join the police force, the firebrigade or become a doctor etc I want a dress

respect my religon!!!

religon = ****.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:01 pm

In Sweden police officers are allowed to wear turbans instead of a police hat.

Nice idea, really. But... it looks ******* ridiculous.
I really respect police officers - but I cant help but giggle when I think of a police officer with a turban.
It's like the FA would force all the footy players to play in skirts or something (meaning that it looks silly).

Post by **Best First** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:08 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
saysadie wrote: Though, just for info... what's the tradition behind the uniforms?
Well lots of schools have uniforms, they date right back normally, and generally have a logo and colours that represent the school.

Next time i play football im going in a dress or a robe or somthing else.

If I join the police force, the firebrigade or become a doctor etc I want a dress

respect my religon!!!

religon = ****.

so your tactic for pointing out the flaws and negative uimpacts of religion on the world and getting people on side is... to be a bit of a nob about it?

what are you hoping to achieve exactly?

Cos as someone who would quite ike to see a shift to a seclarly driven approach to morality and community you are doing me no favours whatsoever.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:10 pm

Doesn't Buddhism kinda frown on sports anyway? So becoming a Buddhist Monk would remove your need to play football, thus solving the problem of the robe not being standard kit... innit?

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:17 pm

Dude...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:24 pm

Obfleur wrote:Dude...

I need to see that movie...

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:32 pm

"Your rules don't apply to me because I'm religious! Respect my irrational beliefs!"

Pffft.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:34 pm

Best First wrote: so your tactic for pointing out the flaws and negative uimpacts of religion on the world and getting people on side is... to be a bit of a nob about it?

what are you hoping to achieve exactly?

Cos as someone who would quite ike to see a shift to a seclarly driven approach to morality and community you are doing me no favours whatsoever.

sorry to be a nob. ill try not to be just for you

Im pointing out that I dont see why one group of ppl has to bend over for another group off ppl - they are both arguing over "uniforms" - yet religon seems to win on default over tradition. I think thats bent.

this country seems to try and respect so many different cultures all the time, but when it comes to our own we let them go.

were not a true multi-cultural society, the respect only gos one way - and untill gos both ways there will be friction.

Id like to point out that the school already allows girls to dress in full headwear and trousers, covering all the parts of the skin that the Muslim religons belives should be covered. the only difference is the cut off the cloth. - this dress for Muslim girls was seens as a comprimise, to meet the Muslim religon halfway and intergrate thier own traditions, which to alot of ppl are important and do no more harm then the Muslim religon.
She should have accepted the comprimise IMO, now legislation has been parsed that allows for all sorts of 'nob' conotations.

Just because the schools traditions are not as old as the Muslim religon doesnt make thier values any less important.

Personaly the argument is as stupid as it sounds, ppl arguing over what you can and cannot wear, but underneath this i feel theres more to it.

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:28 pm

If she didn`t like that school`s rules, go to another who`s rules she does like.

It`s very simple. This wasn`t a religious belief, or command, it was HER belief. When I was at school, I believed it was wrong to have a uniform at all, but did I whine about it, and take the school to court? No I didn`t. I sucked it up, and went to school.

If she didn`t agree with the school policy, then she and her parents should have reconsidered her schooling, and either taken her to another school, or schooled her at home.

All this ruling means is that more and more CHILDREN (important to remember this is a 13 year old girl here, a child) dictating to schools what they want and don`t want, on the grounds of religious freedom, human rights, whatever.

If she hated the dress code that much, she should have asked to be put in a muslim school, where she could dress how she liked. Hell, I remember in the 80s you couldn`t put a muslim into a non-secular school, the world would end or something.

Post by **Denyer** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:48 pm

"It is amazing that in the so-called free world I have to fight to wear this attire."

No, it isn't. You attend a school, you abide by their rules or try to change them—which generally involves arguments and committees. Fights, in other words.

Most uniform policies allow trousers and headwear; this extension is pushing towards an "own clothes" policy rather than an act of religious observation.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:49 pm

I'll have to agree with Snowcat. Also...

Brendocon wrote:It's not a case of it being her "religious right."

Brendocon wrote:She's been granted dispensation to wear a specific outfit because that's what her religion dictates she wears.

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:53 pm

Don't try to tell her to do and we wouldn't have these problems.

Let people wear whatever they damn well please.

-J

Post by **Best First** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:56 pm

Snowcat wrote:This wasn`t a religious belief...it was HER belief.

the difference being?

And by virtue of your point you didn;t do anything about it, she did so...

fair play to her, surely?

Here's the key question - who is she hurting by doing this?

Here's the other key question - why do we spend so much time on piffle liek this when people are starving etc?

FFS.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:43 pm

Why do we waste time on anything when people are starving?

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:45 pm

The difference being she stated her human rights were being affected because she couldn`t wear the bloody dress she wanted at school.

Boo hoo.

Either play by the rules, or go find another school where the rules are slacker, or different.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:48 pm

Snowcat wrote:The difference being she stated her human rights were being affected because she couldn`t wear the bloody dress she wanted at school.

Yeah, the school had already made provision for muslim headdresses and the like. This should never have been a "muslim" issue at all.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:56 pm

Snowcat wrote:The difference being she stated her human rights were being affected because she couldn`t wear the bloody dress she wanted at school.

Boo hoo.

Either play by the rules, or go find another school where the rules are slacker, or different.

or try and change the rules?

how many schools do you have near you by the way?

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:02 pm

Arrgh...no..no..this cannot..be.. I once more find myself agreeing whole-heartedly with something that Brendocon said.

Noooo....

Mark, your utter belief in the School-uniform code/tradition might run a wedge between us.

Please, say that you really think it's naff..?

Thank god there's no uniform-code in sweden or our naboring countries, or in most of Western-Europe, or in USA..or in.. It would have been a bloody nightmare for me.

Post by **Denyer** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:07 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Yeah, the school had already made provision for muslim headdresses and the like. This should never have been a "muslim" issue at all.

Exactly.

Snowcat wrote:All this ruling means is that more and more CHILDREN (important to remember this is a 13 year old girl here, a child) dictating to schools

Most often it's a case of parents or others getting arsey on pretexts. Kids become political poker chips, or are manipulated into becoming a soapbox platform for those more savvy.

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:07 pm

There`s loads of schools where I live in York, in one area alone there`s about 3.

Seriously though, this is a choice society. No one forced her to go to this school, they only asked that the rules of school dress be observed.

What next? The Armed Forces having to rethink their uniforms because the a religious group finds camouflage offensive?

Tescos having to have a rethink on deli counter wear because a pressure group finds the wearing of a hat an affront to God?

Rules are there for a reason. School uniforms are there so that there are no distinctions between pupils, that they`re all in the same boat, as it were. Follow this girl`s logic, and school rules are rendered obsolete.

And to reiterate...she`s 13. A child. When she`s old enough to vote, then she`ll have a say, until then, I`m going with the Victorians on this one - children should be seen, and not heard.

Oh, and just a quick aside? Most Muslim people I know are actually shocked at all this, 1. because it`s making them all seem like sepratists again, and 2. because they think a Muslim woman shouldn`t even be having opinions, 13 or not.

Post by **Denyer** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:10 pm

Snowcat wrote:And to reiterate...she`s 13.

You think she is responsible for pushing it this far?

Pull the other one. Bells, and all that.