Hellboy - pretty good!

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:32 pm

I couldn't find if this movie had already been discussed here. If not, maybe for a reason?

Well, I personally thought it was a decent film. Good pacing, never dull, never dumbing the senses because of too much non-stop violence. Enough humour, though not used to carry the movie or so, in which case it would have failed.
Nice characters, not too deep, but still believable. No nonsense "let's just tell a story already" narration. A bit saddened by the fact that the Nazi's were involved, again, but that's probably the comic writer's "fault".

I especially liked the matter-of-factness of the various characters and alien species. They just were there, no endless drama and mystery surrounding their origins... this is the Hellboy universe, get used to it pronto.

I also felt the special effects were top knotch. Not too original, not mind blowing, but again, with a level of sober acceptance that really made the movie. Not in your face technology, just used where it should, and very nicely, too. It was not that I couldn't distinguish between actors and cgi models, rather, I didn't feel the need to try and look for the faults that usually betray cgi animation.

Pretty darn cool.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:48 pm

the comics are better than the film.

i liked the movie tho, it did a good job with the material, with the exception of the romance angle, which was rather forced and felt unneccessary.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:44 pm

I finally got to watch this yesterday, and really enjoyed it

I've read a pathetically small amount of the comic material (which I also enjoyed), but www.hellboy.com have some that you can read online (which are hosted on the playboy website for some reason), so that should give me something to educate myself with.

Any recommendations as to the best way to collect the comics? Is it a simple case of buying a few graphic novels, or will I have to ruthlessly bid vast ammounts of cash for a single comic on ebay?

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:18 pm

Good thing about Hellboy TPBs is that they collect all stories with him. OK, the ones where he's the main character and the art is by Mignola, excluding cross-overs and guest appearances, but those aren't essential.

Apart from the main mini-series, there are plenty of short Hellboy stories featured in different anthologies published by Dark Horse and as back-up strips in other series, and I suppose finding the original issues of them all would be difficult, and quite expensive. Instead you can get five graphic novels: 'Seed of Destruction', 'Wake the Devil', 'Chained Coffin', 'Right Hand of Doom' and 'Conqueror Worm' and you have all stories from 1994-2001 (and two bonus ones, which were made only for TPBs) in nice five volumes.

Later, you can move onto 'Hellboy: Weird Tales', B.P.R.D. trades and the Hellboy stories which continue the story after 'Conqueror Worm' (one mini-series was published in 2002 and is entitled 'The Third Wish', the next one, 'The Island', will be out this year followed by another).

Post by **Denyer** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:30 pm

There are four TPBs I've read...

-Wake The Devil (big story)
-Right Hand of Doom (short stories)
-The Chained Coffin and Other Stories (short stories)
-Conqueror Worm (big story)

'Seed of Destruction' is the one the movie is based off, and there's probably a couple more by now.

I'd suggest starting with one or both of the short story volumes, as there's more variety than in the big story arc ones.

Generally liked the romance bit in the film. Since the project was hand-held at every step of the way by Mignola, it was done in a way that fitted with the universe. In the comics, we don't see much of the world the stories are set in, and the film set out to use the medium to show that rather than fight it like most adaptations...

The occult/Nazi backplot will make a lot more sense after reading the source—it's not just a throwaway thing, and Rasputin's quite a sympathetic character in some ways.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:10 pm

Thanks for the info guys

The comics available to read online are:

The Corpse

The Iron Shoes

The Wolves of Saint August

A Christmas Underground

Ghost/Hellboy #1 (of 2)

The Baba Yaga

The Vârcolac

The Chained Coffin

Almost Colossus, Part I (Episodes 1-6)

Almost Colossus, Part II (Episodes 7-11)

Conqueror Worm - Epilogue

The Cave

BPRD

I'm off to read

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:18 pm

Sheesh, that's a decent amount of comics.

Rasputin's story-arc is one of the more interesting aspects of the Hellboy comics, I find myself liking him more than Hellboy, in many ways. In fact, I prefer Abe and Rodger to Hellboy as well actually, and as a result I've been enjoying the recent BPRD stories a lot. Shame they are so Mignola-lite.
Although I've missed a couple of the current series, so I'm now aiming for the collection.

Film was good, I liked it. Haven't got it on DVD yet but I intend to at some point.

Dark Link · Post by **Dark Link** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:45 pm

Hellboy 2 is supposed to be out in 2006.

Ron Perlman is a god

.

An interesting thing I was wondering about, have Hellboy and Indiana Jones ever crossed over?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:48 pm

Hellboy was utter rubish, im sorry if u think thats good u need brain surgery.

it has a useless script for starters,
a rule of thumb for super heroe films is to quantify a super heroes abilitys, this isnt done, i dont know what hell boy can do, or is or anything really.
there fore i dont care for him as i cannont sense danager for him.
direction was rubbish, it chops and changes pace with no drama or build up.

it was just utter cack to be honest, i place it as one of my worse films i have ever had to watch.

I watched he supposedly 'bad' punisher last night, thats far better then hellboy.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:00 pm

Hellboy's a superhero?
Oh well, brain surgery it is then.

Have not seen Punisher yet, but want to very much, esp as I hear bits of the film are inspired by the first Garth Ennis maxi-series.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:09 pm

There's nowt wrong with a bit of mystery to a character though surely?

I thought it did quite a good job of explaining his abilities: it's obvious that he's pretty tough, as evidenced by the amount of damage he takes, and I think anyone can summise that it's because he's a little different to us. Secondly, it was explained and shown that he's fireproof, thirdly that he has that huge stone glove, the purpose of which even Hellboy isn't aware of, until fourthly, his purpose as being the, erm, being who will bring about armageddon was explained.

I haven't read much of the comic material, but I felt the character was fleshed out and his origins explained enough for his first outing on the ole silver screen.

Post by **Denyer** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:24 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:super heroe films

There's your first misapprehension.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:i dont know what hell boy can do, or is

There's your second.

It's a "read/watch it and find out story" and doesn't involve super-heroes, spandex or similar.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:30 pm

I was indifferent to it reallly. I have never read the comics and knew little about the character before hand.

Just found the ending to be a huge anticlimax. And after 2 hours, the realisation that not a lot had actually happened in the film

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:37 pm

so what am i watching then?

either way if the film doesnt explain to me what im watching itsdnot doing a very good job is it.

my presumptions that i was watching a film about some sort of mutant be it a heroes or be it super, i deff knew it wasnt about knitting and was based on a comic series.

by the end of the film i didnt know sod all or care [composite word including 'f*ck'] all about the character in questions, thats not to say Hellboy is a cack character, im saying the film is badly handled, its frankly rubbish directing, story telling and poorly edited.
the only thing that was ok was the special effects and visulisation in places.

it didnt save the film tho, it was just poor - essentially be it hellboy or knitting man, or generic mutant/ SUPER HEROE / man with extrodinary powers that allow him to do more the average man etc... film it was poorely directed.

pure rubbish.

i was told this was a good film and that riddick was a bad a film. now i hired hellboy ahead of riddick, and watched riddick after helboy, i wasted 2 hours of life and my money where i could have been watching the supposedly bad riddick.

Post by **snarl** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:54 pm

RIDDICK

Complete ****!

Necromongers? WTF is that all about?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:03 am

i knew more about the necros then the rubber dog things that had varying levels of power in HB.

example, HB has trouble with one rubber doggy, then gets done by about 10 at the end HB gets angry and just kills em like they are flys... right, u see its called continuity, HB has none, at least riddick i know Rid can kill a necro pretty easily

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:21 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
example, HB has trouble with one rubber doggy, then gets done by about 10 at the end HB gets angry and just kills em like they are flys... right, u see its called continuity, HB has none, at least riddick i know Rid can kill a necro pretty easily

But he didn't kill them though, did he?

I remember him getting a few good shots in, maybe even doing some hefty damge, but nothing that they couldn't regenerate from. In the end he was about to get murdered beyond belief because the odds were against him, and the only thing that stopped that was his friend torching them all.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:58 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:so what am i watching then?

either way if the film doesnt explain to me what im watching itsdnot doing a very good job is it.

my presumptions that i was watching a film about some sort of mutant

The film gives you the backstory. Hellboy comes through the portal Rasputin is attempting to open at the beginning, and Professor Broom raises the young demon as his son. Broom is an operative for a bureau investigating paranormal happenings, and Hellboy grows up working with his father—along with other operatives such as Abe (the fish bloke) and Liz (pyrokinetic). No, they don't have extended backstories given—myth, legend and the paranormal are taken as fact here.

Rasputin wants to use Hellboy to unlock the portal permanently.

There's a really good, non-foaming review of this from a Christian perspective here:
http://metaphilm.com/philm.php?id=306_0_2_0

And a really bad, extremely foaming review here if you want something to laugh at:
http://www.capalert.com/capreports/hellboy.htm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:by the end of the film i didnt know sod all or care **** all about the character in questions, thats not to say Hellboy is a cack character, im saying the film is badly handled, its frankly rubbish directing, story telling and poorly edited.

Some reviewers have complained that the climax wasn't explosive enough for them, but my favourite thing about the film is that it doesn't end with a massive fight sequence and actually has a happy outcome.

Given your feelings about the way the film explains things, you're unlikely to enjoy the comics either. There's a more staggered explanation there (though it builds up somewhat over five collections) which is both intentional and one of the best things about the series. Art and dialogue are both very understated.

If you don't enjoy following to discover and the premise doesn't catch your interest, it isn't for you.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:59 am

snarl wrote:RIDDICK

Complete ****!

Necromongers? WTF is that all about?

I liked Riddick, but yeah the Necro story was weak, had it been fully explained it could have been pretty cool. All I know is they get drilled in the spine and are suddenly a new race with a new religion

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:14 am

if the film is good for HB fans and thats how HB is directed in comic form then i guess HB fans are happy but as someone who doesnt know HB i felt no reasons to get to know him better, it just didnt excite me, or capture me in anyway.

im not the biggest spidrman fan either, but the films are enjoyable, and i feel the average movie goer can get to grips with spidy easier then HB.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:18 am

I hate Spiderman as a character, but parts of the 2nd film were quite endearing. What I hate most about the current superhero films is that they offer no depth, only stereotypes. SM, SM2 and X-Men have all been like that; X-Men 2 was the best of the bunch. [/edit]

Incidentally, one criticism [of HB] I'd have is that shared by some of these people:

http://www.mutantreviewers.com/rhellboy.html

...in that the Hellboy we see in the film is basically a teenager.

Hellboy the comic book is beautiful to look at but somehow also absurdly fun escapism into a world of crumbling castles and supernatural threats, with a big huge protagonist who looks like the devil but is actually a world-wide celebrity who is nigh-indestructible and affably upbeat. Hellboy the film is dark and dank to look at, with a protagonist who is moody and only vaguely-likeable, probably because in the film world he’s considered a “freak” who is only known in the world as an “urban legend” who shows up every so often in tabloid cover stories. That’s the part I don’t like about the film: Hellboy isn’t a celebrity, he’s a monster whose existence is classified. A lot of the fun in the comics is this devil-looking guy in a trenchcoat walking around and barely getting second-glances, because he’s been on the cover of Time and Newsweek. Making him a detached, depressed, and resentful shut-in takes away his freedom to walk among humanity, which then makes it hard to understand why he fights for humanity against the evils of the universe. Eh.

Other criticisms I really don't agree with. Lissa, for example, wanted more in-fighting between the characters... but Abe and HB get along because they're friends. They've worked together for decades, and things don't need to be overstated. Actor/actress chemistry and casting for the leads was all decent, although Myers is somewhat irritating and the BPRD boss is a bit much of a jerk.

"In the dark I heard your voice, what did you say?"
"I said, 'Hey, you on the other side. Let her go. 'Cause for her, I'll cross over, and when that happens you'll be sorry.' "

It's entertaining, not-too-taxing fun with a few likeable characters, which is all I really look for in movies.

General question for people who didn't enjoy Hellboy: did you enjoy The Ninth Gate?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:27 am

yes i did enjoy the 9th gate, Depp is more likable character tho then HB, maybe because he acts better, the plot was more interesting, and better paced to the finnal conclusion.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:35 am

I was thinking more about the conclusion... I love that film because it doesn't give too many cues to work with and the ambiguous ending confuses or annoys a lot of people. I like having to pick things out when I'm watching things (although I think Donnie Darko goes over-the-top in doing this... it's still a very welcome change from most cinema, though.)*

Hellboy doesn't do that all the time (it's a very linear plot) but there are lots of nice touches—dialogue done with subtitles rather than contrived English, Liz isn't a stereotype starlet, there's real chemistry between her and HB, the villains' death at the end is quite sympathetic, the emphasis at the end wasn't on effects, the title character has very understated dialogue, etc.

*Probably wouldn't go so far as to say Corso is likeable. Charismatic, but he's a complete bastard who actually uses the book the other characters have been fighting over at the end.

Jazz · Post by **Jazz** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:53 am

hell boy is on ditigal cable this week on i beileve stars or showtime.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:03 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: my presumptions that i was watching a film about some sort of mutant be it a heroes or be it super, i deff knew it wasnt about knitting and was based on a comic series

since when does being based on a comic automatically imply super heroes?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:41 am

super devil mutant thing, i said that later on. essentially hes a heroe, and pretty super so i dont see a problem with it. not all super heroes are by marvel and wear pants outside thier lycra thights.

my problem with the film is not HB imself, its that the way the film is directed. I didnt feel anything for HB's character, i found the script unispiring, i wasnt overly interested in other characters, except that fish thing, i found myself asking to many questions, and thats not due to mystery, its because they didnt explain things. the action sequences were lame in the sense they had no balance threat to the character or continuity. and overal the film plot is really drawn out.

I went into HB with an open mind as knew bugger all about him, and that how alot of other ppl probably see this movie, i left very uninspired by the whole event. in fact i was bored and wanted it to end.

HB is a film about a central character, hes not like u and me, hes different, the film has action centered around him.
the film left me with no feeling for the cenetral character, which is bad direction,
and the action was cack. actually to be fair the action for HB was cack it was like mighty morphin power rangers, big rubber suits fighting each other.
some of nazi characters like that clockwork heart guy were cool, and had better action sequences, id rather see more of that oddball to be honest.
and the humor, ok i can see where they were going with it, but no, it wasnt funny.

essetially as u can prolly tell i didnt like the film - i watched walking tall with the Rock after HB and thats a pretty lame film but i was genuinly more excited, and concerned about Rocks character then HB.good casino
fight in that...

surely the first rule of any film book etc must be to make the lead character cool,endearing or interesting, HB wasnt to me, i could see what he was, big red, prolly strong, cuts his horns off, prolly got a badd ass persona, that fire hydrant arm looks heavy, bet it hurts when punched in face. so after that summery through my brain looking at him in 2 secs im left to get to grips with his character, which wasnt interesting and bery cliched, oh he loves someone? ok maybe its gonna be a really interesting love, nope, hes just to shy or somthing else... blugh rubbish!
at least spiderman has his whole with great power comes great responsibility thing going on (but [composite word including 'f*ck'] it after ive lost grandand and my powers, ill go off with mary jane in a total contridiction of the entire movies plotline) or lets look at superman, ok hes 'super' but just how super?

some might think i shouldnt keep going back to the super heroes, but the film is really super heroe contrived and based, so if im missing the point, again, the films not done a good job of putting me in the right place.

4/10

its not as bad of the extrodinary league of gentlemen tho...

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:44 am

well... i enjoyed it in the main and don't really percieve most of the things you are criticising.

not much point saying more than that.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:03 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:good casino fight in that...

Hellboy isn't an action movie. It has a lot of incidental action, and would be sold by many as an action film, mostly because filmgoers feel happy being able to slot things into a neat block of preconceptions. The story isn't about hitting things.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:surely the first rule of any film book etc must be to make the lead character cool,endearing or interesting

He wanders around fighting evil and being unimpressed with people trying to kill him. An understated "aw, crap" is as much of a catchphrase as the character needs, and Ron Perlman has the perfect voice for it. He's loved and loves. Under the horns, he's an average Joe—which is what the character is all about.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:maybe its gonna be a really interesting love, nope, hes just to shy or somthing else...

I think everyone who's been in love like a giddy teenager (especially when no longer a teenager) probably got the right cues from Ron Perlman and Selma Blair.

I'd like to see a branching out in a sequel that deals more with travelling and international myths and monsters. For instance, the corpse is a nod to The Corpse but doesn't capture any of the flavour of that story—in which a decidedly more mature Hellboy helps out a rural couple whose baby has been switched for a changeling. More active helping of people rather than just a "weird detective in a world that fears him" angle would be good.

8/10, a few things that will hopefully improve in a sequel.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:at least spiderman has his whole with great power comes great responsibility thing going on (but **** it after ive lost grandand and my powers, ill go off with mary jane in a total contridiction of the entire movies plotline)

Him being a whiny little prat doesn't help. **** I hate Spider-Man...

I still want to see LXG at some point... it's probably just masochistic curiosity, but the film's such a significant rewrite in parts that I think I could take it separately to the comics.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:00 pm

Denyer wrote:
Hellboy isn't an action movie. It has a lot of incidental action, and would be sold by many as an action film, mostly because filmgoers feel happy being able to slot things into a neat block of preconceptions. The story isn't about hitting things.

ok this is my point exactly tho, HB as a movie is shown as an action film, if u watch a trailler they are suggesting action. the film comes across as an action film aswell, i could break down the number of action sequences into a time line, and its pretty action orientated.
If HB is not about this, then the film isnt being sold on this level, im being let down by this.

I think everyone who's been in love like a giddy teenager (especially when no longer a teenager) probably got the right cues from Ron Perlman and Selma Blair.

yeah thats cool, but this has been covered in alot of films since the dawn of time, i wasnt going to be to interested. what made me laugh in spiderman is he destroyed the films (or MJ did ) entire sub-plot in 30 secs!

I'd like to see a branching out in a sequel that deals more with travelling and international myths and monsters. For instance, the corpse is a nod to The Corpse but doesn't capture any of the flavour of that story—in which a decidedly more mature Hellboy helps out a rural couple whose baby has been switched for a changeling. More active helping of people rather than just a "weird detective in a world that fears him" angle would be good.

8/10, a few things that will hopefully improve in a sequel.

now that actually sounds far more interesting, because what we were given was big red guy helps a men in black/x-files type community fight monsters, and how does he fight them, by being big and red... and that, par the above very basic love aspect, is all the film is about. now from what im being told this isnt what HB is about, but thats all this film gave me, i was very unimpressed.

out of interest, i find 8/10 very high, i mean im giving lord of the rings 9/10, star wars films (certain ones) 10/10 the matrix is really cool, thats like 8/10 etc... spidermans good, that would be like 6-7/10

so its not that i dislike HB, i just didnt think the film did him any justice.

I still want to see LXG at some point... it's probably just masochistic curiosity, but the film's such a significant rewrite in parts that I think I could take it separately to the comics.

sorry whats LXG ?

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:06 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:sorry whats LXG ?

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Which I quite enjoyed-feel free to launch your projectiles at will.