Marvel UK continuity question

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Post by Guest » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:53 am

sprunkner wrote:Where's Generation 2?
Not applicable to the Generation 1 Timelines Conundrum. But it lies in a possible future of End of the Road (US).
Legion wrote:Oh poo, i think i've broken my brain...

My Attempt

I've ended up with Timelines A-J (many of which we've never actually seen!) and i've just realised i've not taken into account the 'unseen' timeline in Flashback (had Megatron succeeded)
One little error: D,E,F are split wrongly.

D-E should be Wanted (no DH)/(DH)
E-F should be Burning (no Rod)/(Rod)

The way you've got it, it looks like Death's Head arrives in 1987 after Roddy&co., which leaves Bumblebee out in the cold.

Other than that (and that you've placed J 'inside' G) can't see anything wrong with how you've done yours, besides omitting the messiness that would result from simultaneous time-jumping to the same past points from parallel futures, i.e. Polchinski's Paradox.

Which, I guess, explains why mine follows a more bridge-like mechanism.

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Post by Sunyavadin » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:12 am

I'm liking your D, E, F, G timelines. Too often, myself icluded, people overlook the never-observed timelines.

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Post by Legion » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:20 am

Rebis wrote: One little error: D,E,F are split wrongly.

D-E should be Wanted (no DH)/(DH)
E-F should be Burning (no Rod)/(Rod)

The way you've got it, it looks like Death's Head arrives in 1987 after Roddy&co., which leaves Bumblebee out in the cold.
Good point, i'll fix that up at some point, well spotted! :)
Rebis wrote: Other than that (and that you've placed J 'inside' G) can't see anything wrong with how you've done yours, besides omitting the messiness that would result from simultaneous time-jumping to the same past points from parallel futures, i.e. Polchinski's Paradox.

Which, I guess, explains why mine follows a more bridge-like mechanism.
J being inside G was purely a layout issue, not meant to be a reflection on that timeline's past in any way!

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Post by Guest » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:32 pm

And we all appear to have overlooked the effects of Cyclonus and Scourge being (and not being) thrown back in time from Legacy of Unicron.

Looking at yours again, tho, Lee, I'm not sure I agree with your placement of Aspects:Galvatron, etc. in Timeline C. It seems slightly arbitrary and could equally fit as far along as Timeline F.

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Post by Legion » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:28 pm

Good point about Cyc&Scourge...

As for Aspects:Galvatron. My reasoning was that the Timewars rewrote 'the future' so that Galvatron never went back in Fallen Angel. Thus, when Roddy and co tried returning to their own timeline (A) they were actually brought to timeline C.
It'd be unlikely to go into Timeline F as the divergence point for that was Rodimus' arrival.

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Post by Sunyavadin » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:51 pm

I set Headmasters in an alternate timeline, actually. TECHNICALLY there'd be a timeline BEFORE T2006 or Fallen Angel where Cyclonus and Scourge were under Scorponok's command, however we have no way to know WHEN they first arrived. Hence my only listing that in my timeline B, as the Headmasters stories we know occur AFTER Galvatron's arrival, therefore they could have arrived at any time before then (Creating a timeline into which we have no idea which stories would fit, all of the ones pre-T2006, none of them, etc) or after then (immediately before Headmasters or between T2006 and Headmasters). For neatness' sake, and based on the fact that both they and Galvatron seemed to be from similar enough timelines, I just lumped them together.


My timelines are getting a LOT more complex right now, and I'm looking at, once I have continuity established for all the issues, THEN making an interactive timeline where you can choose which variables to take into account.



*edit*
Okay, Time Wars just gave me an idea of where this continuity can fit in.

Galvatron initially arrived, and carried out his plans, but in THIS continuity, the events of Dry Run do not take place. With no Cyclonus and Scourge, there is insufficient damage to the fabric of spacetime to open the rift. The battle of Time Wars takes place, with Megatron and Galvatron against the Wreckers and Mayhems. Now, after the battle the two of them rest, and wait. When they are recovered they pursue the autobots and decepticons, however none of the future transformers arrive to confront them, and they eventually triumph against Optimus Prime and the others.
In this future, they take command of the Decepticons, and eventually events analogous to the movie occur, Straxatron becoming Galvatron and heading back in time to carry out what he previously saw Galvatron do.
This is where things mess up. The timeline he returns to, Cyclonus and Scourge arrive in from the future. They interfere with the course of events causing the accelerated growth of the rift from of Time Wars. This leads to the future Autobots and Decepticons heading back in time. Things are exacerbated when this new Galvatron attempts to use his memory of what he experienced as Megatron in order to give them an advantage, pursuing the Wreckers and Mayhems. This leads to the conflict with the future transformers, and the results we've seen of Time Wars.

An example of this continuity can be found HERE


And what's even better?

Two pages, a load of timelines, and FINALLY I've got an answer on where those damn micromaster stories fit in.

Here's a fully annotated version of this one, for context.

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Post by Sunyavadin » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:59 pm

Is anyone still interested in timelines here? I was just wondering if my planned revisit to mine to put it in an annotated, interactive format which would detail the flow of events and changes, and where reader can select the variables they want to involve would be worth it?

Since I'm working on a (far easier) IDW one, I figured returning to this one could be worthwhile.

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Post by John_D » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:44 pm

You chaps deserve medals! I KNEW somebody would have attempted continuity timelines.

Reading as a kid, I mind being pretty uneasy with how the Earthforce stories suddenly had Megatron, Shockwave, Prime and all the classic characters suddenly kicking about again. It was fun to see them, but I also knew it wasn't quite correct.

I suppose the biggest question I have is where did all these classic characters go during Time Wars. For me that's really unsatisfactory and makes it a joke story. It seems weird that Furman wrote Time Wars and didn't even try to explain where loads of robots were, but there you go.

Somebody has suggested they were away somewhere in the Ark…I guess it coud be another of these "12 month" fixes ha ha!

I see Rebis has Underbase right after Time Wars. Is there any kind of dodgy argument to suggest that both these stories were almost simultaneous (thereby accounting for - most - of the missing robots)?

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Post by Best First » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:20 pm

Rebis wrote:
sprunkner wrote:Where's Generation 2?
Not applicable to the Generation 1 Timelines Conundrum. But it lies in a possible future of End of the Road (US).
That's cheating.
Image

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Post by Guest » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:04 pm

John_D wrote:I see Rebis has Underbase right after Time Wars. Is there any kind of dodgy argument to suggest that both these stories were almost simultaneous (thereby accounting for - most - of the missing robots)?
Not that I'm aware of. Unless you can somehow get Fortress Maximus to be both fighting Rodimus Prime/Galvatron and rescuing Buster, whilst simultaneously, Scorponok is both recovering his head from Highbrow and fighting Ratbat's crew/Autobots, and also Prime being both in Limbo/fighting Galvatron and shooting Starscream from the Ark in space/on the ground.

Basically, unless a lot of the 'cast' of the two stories can be in two places at once, they happened sequentially.

The only overlap I can see would be concerning events prior to Fort Max rescuing Buster.
Best First wrote:
Rebis wrote:
sprunkner wrote:Where's Generation 2?
Not applicable to the Generation 1 Timelines Conundrum. But it lies in a possible future of End of the Road (US).
That's cheating.
Not really. G2 wasn't Marvel UK. ;)

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Post by Best First » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:59 am

Yes it was - the American's just didn't cotton on.
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Post by Brendocon » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:38 am

Indeed.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:36 am

Best First wrote:Yes it was - the American's just didn't cotton on.
you made me look up the phrase and I still don't understand you. Silly Brits. Stonehenge doesn't make you smarter.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by Best First » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:47 am

bumblemusprime wrote:
Best First wrote:Yes it was - the American's just didn't cotton on.
you made me look up the phrase and I still don't understand you. Silly Brits. Stonehenge doesn't make you smarter.
Shut up and look at the big rocks.

Look. Some of them are on top of each other.

How did they managed that eh? It was ages ago, before pencil sharpeners were even invented. Can you imagine?

Think about that while we invade Washinton and re-institue an imperial dictatorship for your own good.

LOOK AT THE ROCKS.
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Post by bumblemusprime » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:57 pm

Pshaw. You made it for the 1957 World's Fair. I saw the sign--"Leapfrogging Rocks of The Future! Note: Rocks Are Currently Stuck in Mid-Leapfrog"
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by Scraplet » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:58 pm

bumblemusprime wrote: Silly Brits. Stonehenge doesn't make you smarter.
But it keeps bus-loads of American tourists away from our major population centres every day ;)
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Post by Sunyavadin » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:06 am

There are of course two published G2 timelines. Just we never saw the UK version completed, but they're clearly intended to be fairly similar just with a few differences in the setup. (Think Death's Head/Bumblebee/Goldbug/GI Joe situation)

As for Time Wars/Underbase.... I always thought the easiest positioning was something close to the published order. They set up club con, the background is put in place, but then Highbrow becomes a headhunter and the deceps end up pulled into the Time Wars. After Galvatron's defeat the groups go their own ways. Future bots go home, Decepticons and Autobots go and continue fighting for the Underbase, Survivors tell everyone else where to stick it.

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Post by Metal Vendetta » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:41 pm

Sunyavadin wrote:There are of course two published G2 timelines.
Three, if you count Another Time and Place ;)
I would have waited a ******* eternity for this!!!!
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Post by bumblemusprime » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:00 am

Which will apparently never ever be reprinted... Anyone have scans of this and State Games? I never read either one.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by Guest » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:25 am

Don't have the scans myself, but you should be able to find them at these links.

State Games:
http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/einst ... es/01.html

Another Time & Place:
http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/einst ... me/01.html


Almost forgot that place existed, been so long since I've visited there.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:25 pm

SG looks like it's been corrupted, but Another Time and Place is all mine...
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by Guest » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:58 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:SG looks like it's been corrupted
I think it's just that first page. Not sure if there's anything really important on it, not like the next page. ;)

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Post by Sunyavadin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:06 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Sunyavadin wrote:There are of course two published G2 timelines.
Three, if you count Another Time and Place ;)
I always counted that as occuring in the years between End of the Road and G2. As it explains the action masters who can suddenly transform again in G2.

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Post by Guest » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:01 pm

Sunyavadin wrote:
Metal Vendetta wrote:
Sunyavadin wrote:There are of course two published G2 timelines.
Three, if you count Another Time and Place ;)
I always counted that as occuring in the years between End of the Road and G2. As it explains the action masters who can suddenly transform again in G2.
It does, however, tangle up the threads involving Megatron.

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Post by Sunyavadin » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:18 pm

You mean like the UK/US G1 runs managed to do TWICE, and the UK/US G2 runs brushed on doing?

TBH I think the best place for it is in between the end of G1 and the beginning of the UK version of G2, where the GI Joe story is not explicitly linked to it. It wouldn't be the first time they brushed out such a crossover with a different UK story, yes?

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Post by Guest » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:50 pm

With the UK G2 run makes more sense, as there's no hint of how a bisected ex-zombie Megatron got an uber-powerful tank style, while the pre-G2 GI Joe is almost directly led on from the end of an ATAP-free G1.

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Post by Sunyavadin » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:21 pm

Given how much has to be tied together by off camera events anyway....

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Post by Guest » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:01 pm

Well, if we miss out ATAP, we get a Nucleon-powered Megatron barely surviving the second Ark crash, "dealing" with Ratchet and Shockwave, moving the Ark, and spending the next few years disabling the remaining Autobots, repairing Starscream, and finally, finding the Silent Castle.


If, on the other hand, we include ATAP, we get Bludgeon recovering Megatron's corpse, sending it off to Hydrus Four, the reanimated corpse being bisected in an Autobot attack, the Autobots and Decepticons clearing off, some unknown party repairing the corpse, Megatron returning to Earth, recovering and moving the Ark, repairing Starscream, and finally, finding the Silent Castle.

Which leads to obvious questions: Who recovered/repaired Megatron after Hydrus Four? Why didn't Bludgeon & his Decepticons strip the Ark of its goodies? Why would Megatron return to Earth?


Still, it could be worse. Someone could always try and make out that the Megatron in ATAP is the Straxatron clone.

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Post by Metal Vendetta » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:42 pm

Actually now I think of it, there's a fourth G2 timeline from the UK G2 Annual where the Dinobots are solar powered, there's no Savage Land and Megatron was always a tank. It could maybe squeeze in as backstory to the Fleetway G2 comics, but even then it's pretty revisionist, and not strictly in continuity with itself, so anyone's guess really.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Official_Transfo ... n_2_Annual

I've not read Moving Day Planet Earth, either - not even sure whether it was text or strip, let alone what happened.
I would have waited a ******* eternity for this!!!!
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Post by bumblemusprime » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:45 am

the Dinobots are solar powered, there's no Savage Land and Megatron was always a tank.
...the ****?
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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