Devestation #2 Review (SPOILERS)

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:43 pm

Shanti418 wrote:

And Six Shot? C'mon! "Well, the ship crashed into the water, so OF COURSE everyone's dead. "

Didn't they set it to self destruct and leave through the cargo doors?

I'd assume Sixshot is used to big explosions being fatal. It's what he's best at!

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:20 pm

E.J.Su wrote:Actually, it is false.

Point of contention then, I suppose.

But let me say that though the Ark crash took most of the issue, I can certainly appreciate the good things that come from character interaction, like Prime's coolness and Prowl's indecisiveness during the crash. That's top notch stuff and as important to story development as the pace is.

And its why I enjoyed the issue despite my feeling that in terms of moving the story along, not much happened.

By the way, we appreciate having you banter with us about your work both here and at the IDW boards, even if I may not see eye to eye with you on some points. It's a credit to guys like you and Eric, who in the face of criticism (sometimes harsh criticism) that you can still make the effort to communicate with the fans and reach out to us on a more personal level.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:53 pm

E.J.Su wrote: You'll finding things out slowly, and I am can almost predict that Yaya will always finds each issue unsatistifying (although I am sure he will have more to cheer next issue since Nick is on it, Nick was amazing in the issue btw).

Actually, to me the story carries much more weight than the art, regardless of who pencils it (unless its Manny Galan).

You might be right though, I have found Infiltration-Escalation-Devestation as a solid "B" with some "A" moments, never going beyond this because I find the pacing is a bit slow for my taste.

One thing I have learned about myself is that despite my being in my thirties and being more mature than I was in my early teens, I still need that physical metal on metal TF battle to satisfy me, what some might label as fanwankish mindless aggression. For example, when Predaking went at it with Bruticus during the DW run, a lot of fans understandably had a "what's the point?" kind of take on it. Me? I was drooling to the point of drowning in a pool of my own saliva. I think the current series needs more of that, like that kickass Prime-Megatron battle you did. More moments like that, and for me, that's when we move from an "B" comic to an "A" one.

In todays comic world though, I'll take a solid "B" comic anyday.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:09 am

E.J.Su wrote:
>> and if you rephrased it to say "Hot Rod and Wheeljack are on their way to rescue ironhide" his point would stand.

but he didn't.

mmm, thanks for pointing that out.

Anyway... Simon makes some interesting comments on pacing on his blog for this issue:

http://simonfurman.wordpress.com/2007/1 ... /#comments

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:41 pm

Best First wrote:
E.J.Su wrote:
>> and if you rephrased it to say "Hot Rod and Wheeljack are on their way to rescue ironhide" his point would stand.

but he didn't.

mmm, thanks for pointing that out.

Anyway... Simon makes some interesting comments on pacing on his blog for this issue:

http://simonfurman.wordpress.com/2007/1 ... /#comments

Thanks for the link.

E.J.Su · Post by **E.J.Su** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:13 pm

Yaya wrote:I think the current series needs more of that, like that kickass Prime-Megatron battle you did. More moments like that, and for me, that's when we move from an "B" comic to an "A" one.

What you want are somewhat contradicting though. battles usually don't move along story plot much.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:29 pm

E.J.Su wrote:
Yaya wrote:I think the current series needs more of that, like that kickass Prime-Megatron battle you did. More moments like that, and for me, that's when we move from an "B" comic to an "A" one.
What you want are somewhat contradicting though. battles usually don't move along story plot much.

But that's where good writing comes in, IMO. A good writer can strike a nice balance with both, can please the impatient triggerhappy fans all the whilst catering to the intellectuals of our fanbase.

I'm going to get verbally accosted here when I say this, but where some fans hated McDounough's War and Peace and the G1 ongoing during DW's run, to me, that was first class stuff, just where I wanted things. To me, that was "A" grade material. I just don't think the current stuff has reached the level of Early Budiansky, Late Marvel G1 or G2 Furman, or DW McDonough level just yet.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:47 pm

ah, you were doing quite well there for a minute.

so sad.

Anyway, Rebis! Take him away.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:03 pm

Yaya wrote:I'm going to get verbally accosted here when I say this, but where some fans hated McDounough's War and Peace and the G1 ongoing during DW's run, to me, that was first class stuff, just where I wanted things. To me, that was "A" grade material. I just don't think the current stuff has reached the level of Early Budiansky, Late Marvel G1 or G2 Furman, or DW McDonough level just yet.

Hang on... are we actually reading the same comics?!?!

Post by **snarl** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:12 pm

innit, they were ******* ****

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:33 pm

War and Peace was utter utter crap.

At the time I thought it was ok, but the IDW series has raised the bar considerably.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:29 am

Hound wrote:War and Peace was utter utter crap.

At the time I thought it was ok, but the IDW series has raised the bar considerably.

In an intellectual sense, yeah, I'd say the bar has been raised by IDW.

But as far as overall entertainment, I don't think it comes close to the things I mentioned above, for me anyway. (We'll disagree on DW's G1 stuff, I guess, but surely there are some here who thought Marvel Furman and early Budiansky were better?)

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:21 am

War and Peace started with a big fat shot of potential, but it was a mess by the end, don't you think?

And EJ! Not drawing Devastation #3? But... but... no! I like Roche and all, but this is your time to give us a fix!

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:09 am

sprunkner wrote:War and Peace started with a big fat shot of potential, but it was a mess by the end, don't you think?

It WAS a mess, but it still was a mess that A, involved Shockwave doing it, and B, nicked my most favorite TF angle, the ol' "Autobots and Decepticons are outdated ideas" idea from G2.

spiderfrommars wrote:Didn't they set it to self destruct and leave through the cargo doors?

I'd assume Sixshot is used to big explosions being fatal. It's what he's best at!

Oh yeah, I'm not saying saying it didn't look like everyone died, I'm just saying, the whole "Fall into the Ocean and Have Everyone Assume You're Dead" trick is an old one, used most recently in The Movie by Megatron, to say nothing of the numerous times Shockwave fell into the water back in the Marvel days.

YaYa/Shockwav wrote:I'm going to get verbally accosted here when I say this, but where some fans hated McDounough's War and Peace and the G1 ongoing during DW's run, to me, that was first class stuff, just where I wanted things. To me, that was "A" grade material. I just don't think the current stuff has reached the level of Early Budiansky, Late Marvel G1 or G2 Furman, or DW McDonough level just yet.

I never knew it was possible for a thread to jump the shark before. Early Budiansky and DW McDonough better than IDW thus far? If you believe that, I've got a highly articulated Powermaster Optimus Prime I'd like to sell you.

Post by **Denyer** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:55 am

Yaya wrote: surely there are some here who thought Marvel Furman and early Budiansky were better?

Good for different things, some of which I find more consistently enjoyable. Better overall? Like comparing types of fruit. If I feel like A, I'll read A, B B, etc.

E.J.Su · Post by **E.J.Su** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:35 am

sprunkner wrote:And EJ! Not drawing Devastation #3? But... but... no! I like Roche and all, but this is your time to give us a fix!

I had to take a leave of absent for 2 issues because my wife just had our first baby. Robby Musso is on #4, both look really good.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:59 am

Shanti418 wrote: I never knew it was possible for a thread to jump the shark before.

You have met Predabot, Aaron and Hotshot right?

Early Budiansky and DW McDonough better than IDW thus far? If you believe that, I've got a highly articulated Powermaster Optimus Prime I'd like to sell you.

I'll also offer a discont on the prototypel for the life size Arcee love doll.

I would rather have had no TF comic than war and peace. Reading it was like waking up next to a fat girl.

As for Marvel Furmy, i think a good chunck of it is on a par, but not noticably better than what we are getting at the moment.

edit - good reason for the break

Post by **Kaylee** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:59 am

E.J.Su wrote:I had to take a leave of absent for 2 issues because my wife just had our first baby.

Many congratulations

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:12 am

jar jar wrote:to me, that was first class stuff, just where I wanted things

And, to the rest of us, it wasn't. To the rest of us, Devastation is pretty much just where we want things. So #2 was light on plot compared to #1? #1 contained more plot progression than the whole of Infiltration, dammit.

War and Peace was badly thought-out garbage. An insult to both my intelligence and my wallet. And the sole reason I didn't bother with volume 3.

Shanti418 wrote: I never knew it was possible for a thread to jump the shark before.

Best First wrote:I would rather have had no TF comic than war and peace. Reading it was like waking up next to a fat girl.

I love this thread.

Oh, and congrats Mr Su. (And Mrs Su, obviously).

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:05 am

Brendocon wrote:
I love this thread.

Oh, and congrats Mr Su. (And Mrs Su, obviously).

Seconded, on both fronts!

Congrats to both of you!

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:46 am

Legion wrote:
Brendocon wrote:I love this thread.

Oh, and congrats Mr Su. (And Mrs Su, obviously).
Seconded, on both fronts!

Congrats to both of you!

Thirded right here. Hope your paternity leave goes well and no offence to Roche and Musso, I think they're both great but I can't wait to see you back on Devastation. Your art style is so familiar now, it's one of the things that defines the IDW Transformers brand for me.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:30 pm

agree 118%.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:28 pm

E.J.Su wrote:I had to take a leave of absent for 2 issues because my wife just had our first baby. Robby Musso is on #4, both look really good.

Congrats, man.

I never knew it was possible for a thread to jump the shark before. Early Budiansky and DW McDonough better than IDW thus far? If you believe that, I've got a highly articulated Powermaster Optimus Prime I'd like to sell you.

How much?

Anyway, I wouldn't say that DW G1 was better quality than what we have now, but that I enjoyed it more.

I can see why some would not like War and Peace, I really do. I don't have a real argument if you want to debate quality between Devestation and W&P. I just found it fun.

But I will say that the G1 ongoing after War and Peace was of much better quality and more fun, and I would at least recommend those who haven't read it to give it a try. I enjoyed the Sunstorm Saga, his tussles with Jetfire, Starscream being Starscream, Brawn and Ratchet taking on Bruticus and blowing him up in the Ark, Predaking kicking Brutics's ass, the Insecticon story, but more than anything, the return of Megatron. I liked the idea of multiple subplots, like what Furman is doing now, but a lot of fans lost patience by the time it was cancelled.

War and Peace was badly thought-out garbage. An insult to both my intelligence and my wallet. And the sole reason I didn't bother with volume 3.

Like I said, Volume 3 was, to me, the best DW had offered. I would say give it a try if you haven't, at least.

Post by **Kaylee** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:31 pm

But did it have stupid dinobots? If not, I don't want to know about it. [/Scott]

Post by **Best First** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:12 pm

Vol 3 was the same sh*t with better art IMO.

There was the occassional nice moment and Don's vastly superior story telling eased the turds passage a bit but it was still largely shallow and often nonsensical ill paced fanwankery.

Yes a Gestalt fight is fun, but so what? Literally anyone could write that scene, its hardly a credit to the guy.

Script: Massive Robots clatter each other for 5 pages.

Plus while the last issue had some good Decep stuff the foreshadowing of Quints etc boded for more of the same.

Basically it was like waking up with a slightly prettier fat girl but with a more vivid recollection of all the nasty things you had done with her the night before.

Thank his noodley appendage that it was axed before the Tittybots (new name, lets spread it) showed up in full titty force.

Scott loves those Tittybots...

Post by **Kaylee** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:22 pm

Such a shame Furman's writing them now. He's gonna completely mess up the fembots. Yet another blow to the franchise.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:31 pm

Best First wrote:Vol 3 was the same sh*t with better art IMO.

Was the gist I got from the preview pages, reviews, summaries, etc that I was reading. Just because I wasn't flushing my money away didn't mean I wasn't following it. I gave them 12 issues to convince me it was worth me paying for... they couldn't do it.

"look - it's this character!"
"why?"
"because it's cool!"
"is it? how?"
"because they were in the cartoon. look - now it's this character! they weren't in the cartoon, but they're a neon recolour of an existing character who we've decided is their brother... or something, we're not sure, we'll worry about it later - isn't it cool that we're using a brand new character who only exists because eHobby wanted to explain an animation error?"
"not really... it's a bit fanwanky. aren't there enough characters for you to choose from... what makes this character more worthy than, say, Bugly?"
"uhm... they're superpowered!!!!!"
"thought as much... any chance of a coherent plot where the developments aren't blatantly telegraphed?"
"LOOK!! GIANT GESTALT BATTLE!!! ISN'T THAT KEWL?"

Post by **Best First** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:35 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:He's gonna completely mess up the fembots.

Say it with me: Tittybots.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:55 pm

Best First wrote:
Karl Lynch wrote:He's gonna completely mess up the fembots.
Say it with me: Tittybots.

How titillating!

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:32 pm

Best First wrote:Vol 3 was the same sh*t with better art IMO.

There was the occassional nice moment and Don's vastly superior story telling eased the turds passage a bit but it was still largely shallow and often nonsensical ill paced fanwankery.

Yes a Gestalt fight is fun, but so what? Literally anyone could write that scene, its hardly a credit to the guy.

Script: Massive Robots clatter each other for 5 pages.

Plus while the last issue had some good Decep stuff the foreshadowing of Quints etc boded for more of the same.

Basically it was like waking up with a slightly prettier fat girl but with a more vivid recollection of all the nasty things you had done with her the night before.

Thank his noodley appendage that it was axed before the Tittybots (new name, lets spread it) showed up in full titty force.

Don't listen to this guy.

He's full of....tit.