Christianity vs. Islam

If the Ivory Tower is the brain of the board, and the Transformers discussion is its heart, then General Discussions is the waste disposal pipe. Or kidney. Or something suitably pulpy and soft, like 4 week old bananas.

Moderators:Best First, spiderfrommars, IronHide

If everyone had to be a Christian or Muslim, what would you be?

Christian
13
81%
Muslim
3
19%
 
Total votes: 16

User avatar
Autobot 420
Decepticon Cannon Fodder
Posts:52
Joined:Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:55 pm
Location:Tampa, FL
Contact:

Post by Autobot 420 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:26 am

Professor Smooth wrote:The two religions I hate more than almost anything else and I'm forced to pick between the two. My first choice would be "death" but I don't know if that would be worse than either of the two. I admit it seems a bit melodramatic. Huh. I'll have to sleep on it. I suppose an entire world of Muslims would be peaceful. It would, because of their strict laws, probably suck hardcore (and I'm a male!) An entire world of Christians would probably still be devided into different sects that would eventually begin to hate and war with each other.
I agree F*** christinaity F*** Islam screw orginized religon in general (I'm a unitarian)
Autobots transform and........... wait what was I saying again? Dude Roddimus I'm so baked right now.

User avatar
Kaylee
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:4071
Joined:Thu Oct 26, 2000 12:00 am
::More venomous than I appear
Location:Ashford, Kent, UK.
Contact:

Post by Kaylee » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:47 am

sprunkner wrote:
Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Karl Lynch wrote:{bows}
Isnt that what got you into this mess in the first place?
I got it.
There must be some sort of upper IQ limit on that joke then ;)

User avatar
Metal Vendetta
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:4950
Joined:Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:00 am
Location:Lahndan, innit

Post by Metal Vendetta » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:56 am

Yaya wrote:Of course, violence is not the answer here, but as far as I know there has only been peaceful protesting.

I think they should have that right to protest.
I too believe that Muslims have the right to protest if they believe someone has slighted their religion by calling it evil and inhuman.

Like all those churches in the middle east that have been firebombed and attacked with gunfire as a result. Or the Muslims in Somalia who protested against the pope's words by shooting a nun who was volunteer-working at a hospital four times in the back and leaving her to die. Good way to prove the pope wrong there.

Now I know I've only read western news sources which are probably biased about this sort of thing, but while I've seen a whole ****load of Muslim protestors calling for the pope to be executed I haven't seen one example of a Muslim protesting against the violence perpetrated by Muslims in response to the pope's words, which in my eyes is a far bigger slight on their religion. It's one thing for the leader of another religion to call Islam violent and inhuman, but surely it's far more serious when Muslims go around proving him to be exactly right. Do these people not get irony?

Does this count as religious debating? Hopefully it's more like politics at this level...which reminds me, does this topic remind anyone else of a certain episode of South Park?
I would have waited a ******* eternity for this!!!!
Impactor returns 2.0, 28th January 2010

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by Best First » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:15 am

Yaya wrote:
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:what I want to know is why Muslim have more extreamists views, and get all violent and ****?

**** sakes, the other day, the pope quotes a ******* book and u have radical muslim group outside the main chucrch in london asking for jesus to go to hell.

why must muslims always get so ******* over the top on anyone thats mentions Allah in the wrong way - its like, ******* calm down!

Why dont the muslim clerics get down there and tell these 'radical' muslim twats to calm the **** down.
.
Because its the Pope.
surely who it is makes no difference if you practice your faith, as I understand it, correctly?
Of course, violence is not the answer here, but as far as I know there has only been peaceful protesting.
there hasn't though has there? a nun has been gun downed and churches in the middle east have been attacked – not to mention several supposedly Islamic fundamentalist groups have made sweeping threats of violence.

I understand these people do not represent the majority of muslims but, as seems to be coming commonplace, the condemnation from those they apparently do not represent remains noticeably muted
I think they should have that right to protest.
Yes, peacefully, and without the threat of violence.

However you have to wonder what is really being protested against – because if the message is “you can’t criticise Islam” then the response has to really be: Sorry, I can & will if I see fit.

Other people should be free to say they believe your beliefs are a load of rubbish if they so desire.

I mean lets take the statement the pope quoted, at the end of the day its an opinion - it may be wrong or factually flakey, but some guy from the 14th century is entitled to have it, and some guy from the 20th century is entitled to agree with it if he so wishes. Let's be clear, i have the right not to respect your faith.

The Pope has been a dick, but the response is disproportionate – compare it to the reaction to Iran’s PM’s remarks that Israel should be wiped off the map, eh?

I mean lets not be too surprised, the Pope thinks that the world was created by an invisible fairy that talks to him, its not surprising when he turns out to be a bit daft is it?

As a total aside, found this interesting, if in no way surprising:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,1875800,00.html
Image

User avatar
Metal Vendetta
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:4950
Joined:Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:00 am
Location:Lahndan, innit

Post by Metal Vendetta » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:48 am

Should also point out that the man the pope was quoting was hardly likely to be a fan of the Catholics either.

In 1204 the fourth crusade entered Constantinople and ransacked it - you know the sort of thing, Christian-on-Christian massacre, raping, looting and pillaging - and they remained there until 1261 when Michael VIII drove the Catholics out of Constantinople and established the house of Palaiologoi. The sack of Constantinople was the beginning of its decline, not least because the Catholics had killed a load of people and stolen everything.

Emperor Manual II Palaiologos, the man the pope quoted, was a member of this house and ruler of the Byzantine empire from 1391 to 1425. The empire he had inherited had been invaded piece-by-piece by the Turks, leaving only the capital city in his hands. He spent much of his time appealing to the countries of western Europe to help him repel the Turks from his lands, only to be disappointed. His son was the last emperor.

The quote, in context, is perhaps quite understandable. After all, his entire empire had been invaded by Muslims during his lifetime. Of course, whether the present pope has any business quoting him is another matter.
I would have waited a ******* eternity for this!!!!
Impactor returns 2.0, 28th January 2010

User avatar
BB Shockwave
Insane Decepticon Commander
Posts:1877
Joined:Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:00 pm
Location:Hungary, Budapest
Contact:

Post by BB Shockwave » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:59 am

Know what's wrong with Islam? No central leader, like we catholics have the Pope or the Dalai Lama for Tibet...

That way. when things like the recent Danish comics uproar or the Pope's speech happens, there is no Islam leader who would simply tell the angry mobs to calm down and would discuss the problems with the other side normally...
Image

"I've come to believe you are working for the enemy, Vervain. There is no other explanation... for your idiocy." (General Woundwort)

User avatar
Aaron Hong
Me king!
Posts:1269
Joined:Fri Jan 11, 2002 12:00 am
::No pity for fools
Location:...No let ME fold the map GAAH

Post by Aaron Hong » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:02 am

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Eline wrote:From my limited knowledge, neither seems to be very keen on women who want to do stuff other than conceiving and cooking.
wait.. yall do other stuff?
Annie drives the MPV on weekdays...
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:27 am

BB Shockwave wrote:Know what's wrong with Islam? No central leader, like we catholics have the Pope or the Dalai Lama for Tibet...

That way. when things like the recent Danish comics uproar or the Pope's speech happens, there is no Islam leader who would simply tell the angry mobs to calm down and would discuss the problems with the other side normally...
Good point, but then the responsiblity for calming down the mobs, that seem to forget the basics of religon in favour of burning ppl, and violence, should fall to the high Clerics?

These Clerics, that the government is supposed to liason with are never seen to be doing anything to quell violence, and telling the more Radical Muslims to get in line.

Islam scares me. - was that what Allah wanted?
Image

Dead Head
Back stabbing Seeker
Posts:309
Joined:Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:18 pm

Post by Dead Head » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:49 pm

BB Shockwave wrote:Know what's wrong with Islam? No central leader
No central leader can be seen to have benefits too.

Yaya
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:3374
Joined:Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:58 am
Location:Florida, USA

Post by Yaya » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:20 pm

The besmeared image of Islam is due to two major factors.

Firstly and foremost, the Muslims failure to behave like Muslims, to be knowledgable of their own belief, and to act on what they believe. Those who are in a position to actually assist others, like the Saudi princes, are too caught up in their lives of luxury to care about anything else.

And secondly, the lack of media channels to Western audiences to give correct assessments of their faith and their opinion of events that involve them. People keep saying, "why don't Muslims stand up and speak out against acts of violence." How can they when CNN and Fox News does not wish to give them a voice, when they are in the hand of special interest groups? These are media groups that span the world, yet they will never take as a news source Muslim media. Because it runs counter to what they are reporting. Al Jazeera is one of the few that is ever allowed to air, and now they too are under the control of Western influence.

Anytime a Muslim scholar tries to tell the truth about Islam, he or she is cut out. I've seen it happen over and over again.

People of the West will never get the chance to hear what Muslims themselves feel about the events of the world. Only what BBC and CNN want you to hear and see.
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: Islam scares me.
Of course it does. That is precisely the result that Western media wants to create. It serves their purpose, like the fear of Communism did when the USSR existed.
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

Dead Head
Back stabbing Seeker
Posts:309
Joined:Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:18 pm

Post by Dead Head » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:40 pm

Rot. Religions like Islam have an 'image problem' due to their inherent unfounded bases and repugnant decrees, adhered to and enforced by a large swathe of cupid stunts on this planet.

Yaya
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:3374
Joined:Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:58 am
Location:Florida, USA

Post by Yaya » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:44 pm

What's that awful smell?
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

User avatar
Best First
King of the, er, Kingdom.
Posts:9750
Joined:Tue Oct 17, 2000 11:00 pm
Location:Manchester, UK
Contact:

Post by Best First » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:05 pm

I think yaya needs to bear two things in mind:

1) the 'truth' about Islam may not be what he wants you to be - especially if you will insist on relying on this bizarre approach of only relying on muslim scholars to interpret muslim actions and history. As stated before you wouldn't rely on a Tory for a balanced view of the history of the conservative party and the implications of its views.

2) The BBC is actually pretty good, bear in mind a lot of people you are debating with don't watch so much Fox or CNN but British news which isn’t nerdy as bad, for example the BBC's chief corespondent on the Iraqi was, oh yes, a muslim (Ragi Omar) so to accuse them of stifling opinion seems to me to be a bit of a nonsense. Equally muslim spokes people are actually given quite a lot of time on both UK current affairs programs and faith shows and condemnation of such things (actual violence) remains decidedly lukewarm in comparison to a guy saying some stuff. Even if he is an important guy and it was pretty hairy stuff.

Plus - its all very well saying 'ah, but they are not real muslims', but seeing as these people are responding to someone insulting Islam its obvious they think they are. I also very much doubt that those commiting violence and getting worked up are the Muslims whose faith is dulled by their economic situation, because to do so would be a threat to that situation - if anything I would say its a combination of people who are easily led as a result of being a) disenfranchised and b) indoctrinated with a sense of some kind of cross national unity and genuine fundamentalist arseholes.

There are, no doubt, media distortions of Islam, but to assume that all criticism of Islam is a deliberate distortion or unfounded is an equally blinkered and invalid position to come from and serves to rob you of credibility as much as the media sources that do this distorting - like lumping the BBC in with CNN above (or even lumping CNN with Fox) when if you look at the facts such assertions don't stand-up - just as I suspect many of Fox's representations don't - you re guilty of that which you are complaining about.
Image

User avatar
Scraplet
Smart Mouthed Rodent
Posts:623
Joined:Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:08 pm
Location:Derbyshire, UK

Post by Scraplet » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:07 pm

Yaya wrote:The besmeared image of Islam is due to two major factors.

Firstly and foremost, the Muslims failure to behave like Muslims, to be knowledgable of their own belief, and to act on what they believe. Those who are in a position to actually assist others, like the Saudi princes, are too caught up in their lives of luxury to care about anything else.

And secondly, the lack of media channels to Western audiences to give correct assessments of their faith and their opinion of events that involve them. People keep saying, "why don't Muslims stand up and speak out against acts of violence." How can they when CNN and Fox News does not wish to give them a voice, when they are in the hand of special interest groups? These are media groups that span the world, yet they will never take as a news source Muslim media. Because it runs counter to what they are reporting. Al Jazeera is one of the few that is ever allowed to air, and now they too are under the control of Western influence.

Anytime a Muslim scholar tries to tell the truth about Islam, he or she is cut out. I've seen it happen over and over again.

People of the West will never get the chance to hear what Muslims themselves feel about the events of the world. Only what BBC and CNN want you to hear and see.
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: Islam scares me.
Of course it does. That is precisely the result that Western media wants to create. It serves their purpose, like the fear of Communism did when the USSR existed.
Absolutly. I think you pretty much got it spot on.

I work in, and until recently lived in, a prodominantly muslim community of Pakistani origin. Most of the things that people consider to be 'extremist islamic' lifstyles are in fact just outdated cultural traditions, where the side that have the most to loose (ie the men) use religion to justify their chauvinism.

Islam itself does not decree these things. I know many 'westernised' muslims who consider themselves devoute.

Personally, I'm much more fearful of the Christians of the American right-wing.

However, both religions are just seperate legs of the same tossy religion, IMHO (along with Jewdism). So, really, there is no choice to make. Which would make all the disagreements funny, if they wern't so tragic
:(
___________________________________
http://www.tiananmen.co.uk/index.php

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:23 pm

Cheers Best First for writting what I was thinking response to YaYa's post.

To be honest, when it starts comming down to ' you dont know anything about Islam because your media is all out of whack ' strikes me as clutching at straws and slightly paranoid behaviour.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5354862.stm

take this article - and read the links to the right, and view the images down the side - explain to me whats wrong with this 'media' coverage and your argument might have some weight behind it. it doesnt seem unfair to me at all.

when thousands of Muslims are on film, walking along, holding banners, saying burn Jesus etc... and other slogans that are based on violence (nice religion) are you trying to tell me that all these boards, all these ppl, and everything they are saying on film isnt true, like they have been added via some special effects team?
Image

spiderfrommars
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:5673
Joined:Sun Aug 25, 2002 11:00 pm
Location:Oxford, UK
Contact:

Post by spiderfrommars » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:48 pm

Yaya wrote:The besmeared image of Islam is due to two major factors.

Firstly and foremost, the Muslims failure to behave like Muslims, to be knowledgable of their own belief, and to act on what they believe. Those who are in a position to actually assist others, like the Saudi princes, are too caught up in their lives of luxury to care about anything else.

And secondly, the lack of media channels to Western audiences to give correct assessments of their faith and their opinion of events that involve them. People keep saying, "why don't Muslims stand up and speak out against acts of violence." How can they when CNN and Fox News does not wish to give them a voice, when they are in the hand of special interest groups? These are media groups that span the world, yet they will never take as a news source Muslim media. Because it runs counter to what they are reporting. Al Jazeera is one of the few that is ever allowed to air, and now they too are under the control of Western influence.

Anytime a Muslim scholar tries to tell the truth about Islam, he or she is cut out. I've seen it happen over and over again.

People of the West will never get the chance to hear what Muslims themselves feel about the events of the world. Only what BBC and CNN want you to hear and see.
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: Islam scares me.
Of course it does. That is precisely the result that Western media wants to create. It serves their purpose, like the fear of Communism did when the USSR existed.
Whilst I sympathise with you on some of this, I have to say in most cases it is not an agenda, merely the cold hard fact that muslims condoning extremism is not the sexy part of the story and won't make the banner headline.

Working in a newsroom I know we have many contacts in the muslim community that abhor these acts - admittedly the media could do more - till then for the most part these groups are stuck with printing leaflets and touring schools to get their message across. They will always get drowned out by the mad ravings of others.

Yaya
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:3374
Joined:Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:58 am
Location:Florida, USA

Post by Yaya » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:06 pm

Best First wrote:I think yaya needs to bear two things in mind:

1) the 'truth' about Islam may not be what he wants it to be - especially if you will insist on relying on this bizarre approach of only relying on muslim scholars to interpret muslim actions and history.
How is it bizarre that I leave the study of Islam to those who know more about it than I do? I would rather defer to them than to accept what a nonMuslim who lacks but a superficial knowledge of the faith based on the actions of a few Muslims today.
2) The BBC is actually pretty good, bear in mind a lot of people you are debating with don't watch so much Fox or CNN but British news which isn’t nerdy as bad
So I've heard. I can only speak about what I know, so I will leave BBC out of the equation. But certainly Fox and CNN have their biased slant on what they report, and the way they report it.
Plus - its all very well saying 'ah, but they are not real muslims', but seeing as these people are responding to someone insulting Islam its obvious they think they are.
Oh, I'm not denying that they are Muslims. Muslims are certainly capable of evil, as much as anyone else. Shooting nuns over this is evil, for sure. But I can say with certainty "but this is not Islam." Because its not. There is a difference. I don't defend the evil actions of Muslims throughout the world, but I will defend my faith.
There are, no doubt, media distortions of Islam, but to assume that all criticism of Islam is a deliberate distortion or unfounded...
That is a matter of opinion then. If a women wears a hijab, the media will say is subjugation. The Muslim will say its obedience. It's a matter of perspective. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to say that Islam teaches violence, for example, is just erroneous.
Impactor wrote:when thousands of Muslims are on film, walking along, holding banners, saying burn Jesus etc...
See, this is where you don't make sense. A Muslim holds Jesus Christ as one of the most beloved persons in human history. Find me a single banner where a Muslim says "burn Jesus". You won't. Because a Muslim would not say this. We love Jesus Christ, we simply don't believe he is God or the Son of God.

But hey, you believe anything you hear on CNN, so that doesn't surprise me.
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

Yaya
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:3374
Joined:Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:58 am
Location:Florida, USA

Post by Yaya » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:09 pm

spiderfrommars wrote: Working in a newsroom I know we have many contacts in the muslim community that abhor these acts - admittedly the media could do more - till then for the most part these groups are stuck with printing leaflets and touring schools to get their message across. They will always get drowned out by the mad ravings of others.
That is exactly my point. People ask "where is the Muslim voice against these acts, why don't they speak out?"

But how can you speak out if you have no way of reaching the pulpit. It doesn't make the headlines. Just the angry protestors.

Its not a level playing field. For most who watch the tele, they don't know this.
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

User avatar
Shanti418
Over Pompous Autobot Commander
Posts:2633
Joined:Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:52 pm
Location:Austin, Texas

Post by Shanti418 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:17 pm

I agree that it's not a level playing field, but that's not taking away ANYTHING from the points BF and others have made.

Islam ain't a field of roses, and it ain't a pile a ****. EDIT: Hey, wow, I can just write **** and it'll put in the asterisks for me? Think of all the time I've wasted pressnig shifts and making asterisks. **** **** ****.

Meanwhile........

It takes the Papacy DECADES to apologize for the church's role in the Holocaust, but a couple of days to apologize for referencing a guy who made some disparaging comments about Islam?

Now THOSE are results.
Best First wrote:I thought we could just meander between making well thought out points, being needlessly immature, provocative and generalist, then veer into caring about constructive debate and make a few valid points, act civil for a bit, then lower the tone again, then act offended when we get called on it, then dictate what it is and isn't worth debating, reinterpret a few of my own posts through a less offensive lens, then jaunt down whatever other path our seemingly volatile mood took us in.

User avatar
Aaron Hong
Me king!
Posts:1269
Joined:Fri Jan 11, 2002 12:00 am
::No pity for fools
Location:...No let ME fold the map GAAH

Post by Aaron Hong » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:20 pm

Shanti418 wrote:EDIT: Hey, wow, I can just write **** and it'll put in the asterisks for me? Think of all the time I've wasted pressnig shifts and making asterisks. **** **** ****.
NOW we're in TransFans. :)
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:05 pm

See, this is where you don't make sense. A Muslim holds Jesus Christ as one of the most beloved persons in human history. Find me a single banner where a Muslim says "burn Jesus". You won't. Because a Muslim would not say this. We love Jesus Christ, we simply don't believe he is God or the Son of God.

But hey, you believe anything you hear on CNN, so that doesn't surprise me.

hahaha - you seriously dont watch any news in the world do you? ffs mate, thier was a protest in the UK 2 days ago with many Muslims holding such a banner. Millions of ppl saw it !!! - many ppl turned up to ask these fruit loops what on earth they were shouting about.

And why do you keep talking about me watching CNN? - I just gave you a link to the BBC? which proved your ideas about the media wrong.
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:14 pm

[quote=Muslim]
That is a matter of opinion then. If a women wears a hijab, the media will say is subjugation. The Muslim will say its obedience. It's a matter of perspective. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to say that Islam teaches violence, for example, is just erroneous.[/quote]


this is classic - this is what you think the west reports? this is what you think the media says? this is what a Muslim like yourself is told by your peers?

I have never heard this on a single news channel, and for good reason!!? - because the Muslim radicals would kill the news reporter! its that simple, look at the cartoon protest, look at the pope protest - ppl are dying over trival things that I, a non religous person wouldnt even give a **** about.

Look, im not saying your a radical, and im sure your version of Islam is the correct, true and honest path - but there are bloody millions of Muslims who dont follow the good version of Islam right now, and you cannot deny this.
these ppl are not being spoken to, they are not being controlled, they are dangerous, and right now the Islamic religon is not holdings its house in check.

this is why Islam scares me - for all the good it does, there is currently alot of angry young men going in the wrong direction - I find it very scary when someone makes a cartoon about Allah, and millions go mad, thats ******* Insane. I find it scary that the pope says somthing, and thier a riots and murder.

This might not be 'your' islam but to these ppl it is thier Islam - the message has gone wrong somewhere along line has it not?
Image

Yaya
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:3374
Joined:Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:58 am
Location:Florida, USA

Post by Yaya » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:07 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
See, this is where you don't make sense. A Muslim holds Jesus Christ as one of the most beloved persons in human history. Find me a single banner where a Muslim says "burn Jesus". You won't. Because a Muslim would not say this. We love Jesus Christ, we simply don't believe he is God or the Son of God.

But hey, you believe anything you hear on CNN, so that doesn't surprise me.

hahaha - you seriously dont watch any news in the world do you? ffs mate, thier was a protest in the UK 2 days ago with many Muslims holding such a banner. Millions of ppl saw it !!! - many ppl turned up to ask these fruit loops what on earth they were shouting about.
Of course there was a protest.

I'm talking about the banner. Prove to me there was a banner that read "burn Jesus". There wasn't one, I can assure you.
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

User avatar
Kaylee
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:4071
Joined:Thu Oct 26, 2000 12:00 am
::More venomous than I appear
Location:Ashford, Kent, UK.
Contact:

Post by Kaylee » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:56 pm

Make love, not war.

Four words. About as simple as you can get. And people can't even get those through their heads. Very sad indeed.

I think I was a hippy in a former life. Probably one with a green VW and a big great dane...

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:50 pm

Yaya wrote: Of course there was a protest.

I'm talking about the banner. Prove to me there was a banner that read "burn Jesus". There wasn't one, I can assure you.
Ok mate - whatever, im not going to [composite word including 'f*ck'] around looking for an image, anyone watching the news that day saw the placards of these 'radical mulsims'

seriously, instead of slagging off all news channles, try turning a few on, or read the links I have posted. You might like to watch the documentarys we have here in the UK aswell.

If you can find me somthing you dont agree with on the BBC link I posted then im ready to listen - untill that time your argument falls completely flat.
Everyone here is waiting.

Why do Muslims get so ******* angry? im not religous, and I dont behave like a ******* deranged mental patient over a cartoon, or what some bloke called the Pope says. seriously ****** up religon you got going there.
Image

Yaya
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:3374
Joined:Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:58 am
Location:Florida, USA

Post by Yaya » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:32 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
Yaya wrote: Of course there was a protest.

I'm talking about the banner. Prove to me there was a banner that read "burn Jesus". There wasn't one, I can assure you.
Ok mate - whatever, im not going to **** around looking for an image, anyone watching the news that day saw the placards of these 'radical mulsims'
So you're trying to tell me that Muslims are going to carry around placards that say "Burn our Holy Prophet"?

You are just revealing your ignorance about Islam. We hold Jesus in very high regard. But see, you didn't know that. So you just decided to insert your two make-believe cents in. [composite word including 'f*ck'] man, I have little respect for someone who not only falls for the propoganda machine, but is one themselves.

You can't show me that placard because it doesn't exist. [composite word including 'f*ck'] man, your making it up. Sounds good to you, though doesn't it? Sounds like something those Muslims would say. Stop making **** up. We all know protests have occurred, but to create ******* slogans just to prove your point? That's low, man.
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

Yaya
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:3374
Joined:Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:58 am
Location:Florida, USA

Post by Yaya » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:51 pm

Regarding Impactors BBC link, it basically hammers home the same point that has been made ad nauseum in every news station here in the U.S. Muslims are angry.

But see things for what they are.

When the Pope first said it, Muslims were surprised.

Headlines read "Muslims Enraged Over Pope's Statements"

The next day or so, the Pope issues an apology.

Since that time, most Muslims accepted the apology. There have not been any demostrations in the United States that I know of, living here myself, since that time (or even right after he said it). I cannot site even a single protest by Muslims here.

Next day though , headlines read "Muslims Still Outraged Despite Pope's Apology".

Now, of the over one billion Muslims in the world, most have forgotten it. Except for some small pockets in the Middle East and in other Muslims countries, likely numbering in the thousands of protesters.

So the next day on Yahoo, front page, top news report reads "Muslims Demand Sincere Apology, Pope's Words Not Enough". Oh fuc man, he apologized. It's OLD news.

Yet, what does the fourth day in a row on Yahoo say? Same ****. "Muslims Demand More".

Now by this time, 99.9% of the worlds Muslims have almost forgotten this incident (including my wife, who was asked if she joined any protest, to which she answered "what are you talking about?"), save again, small pockets in scattered Muslim countries.

Yet again, like BBC reports we get the picture of millions of ravenous beasts that have nothing better to do than to complain about something said a week ago for which the old man apologized. "Muslims Still Angry"

"Muslims Demand More"

Next day, "Muslims Still Protest"

"Muslims Hurt by Popes Words, Demand More", etc. etc. etc.

If you show something enough, over and over, even if it involves 0.01% of the billion of worlds Muslims, you'll get that mission of besmearing Islam accomplished. I almost, almost give them credit for this. Its pretty ingenious, and shows they have quite a grasp of the sponge-like nature of the human mind.

This is called subtle, masterful propoganda.

Because if I were a Christian, and everytime I turned on my computer to my Yahoo homepage, and read this about Muslims ******* day in and day out, I too would believe all Muslims were homicidal maniacs that can't forgive and hold deathly grudges.

With that kind of press, with that kind of focus, how can you NOT think Muslims are predatory beasts out to kill?
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:57 pm

sorry - i found the quote now, 'Jesus is the slave of allah' and - the 'pope should burn hell'

Image

Why are these muslims so over-reactional, is this what religon is all about?
Nice ppl you Muslims, I wish I could be a muslim so I too can go ******* mental over nothing - actually ill stay non religous so I dont have stupid mental freak outs when someone talks about my god.
you dont find that an utter contridiction of what your religons about then?

I dont care if its Jesus Burn or whatever - its still a ******* retarded thing to say when your supposed to be all religous and peacfull and **** - Islam is ******* whack man.

Your religon scares me - cheers for that.
Image

User avatar
Impactor returns 2.0
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:6885
Joined:Sat Sep 22, 2001 11:00 pm
::Starlord
Location:Your Mums

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:02 am

In reply to your readings about the BBC and Yahoo etc...

but it is news, these ppl are protesting - in very large numbers across the world over somthing thats an utterly stupid matter.

Now, as you have acepted the fact this is going on, we can finnaly get back to the matter at hand - why are the clerics etc.. not going to these protests to tell thes radical Muslims to shut the [composite word including 'f*ck'] up and calm down?
Image

Yaya
Big Honking Planet Eater
Posts:3374
Joined:Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:58 am
Location:Florida, USA

Post by Yaya » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:37 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:sorry - i found the quote now, 'Jesus is the slave of allah'
Now that's better.

Let me clarify what this guy with the placard is saying. The literal definition of Islam is "Submission". The literal definition of a Muslim is "one who is submits, or is a slave, of Allah". In other words, I am a slave of Allah, as is every Muslim. This man is simply saying that, as Muslims believe, Jesus was a Muslim or believer in One God, "one who submits" to Allah.

To a Muslim, this is not derogatory at all, but in fact, the total opposite. The highest station a human being can reach in this world is to be "a slave of Allah."
but it is news, these ppl are protesting - in very large numbers across the world over somthing thats an utterly stupid matter.
"Utterly stupid" is relative. What you hold dear, others might categorize as stupid. In any case, as long as the protest is done peacefully, it does no harm.
Now, as you have acepted the fact this is going on, we can finnaly get back to the matter at hand - why are the clerics etc.. not going to these protests to tell thes radical Muslims to shut the **** up and calm down?
Because there is nothing "radical" about protesting. Why should a cleric condemn this right? Do you not believe it should be their right? I mean, I know you think its stupid, but to say it is not their right is being restrictive. Killing, pillaging, arson, etc,, those are actions which should be spoken out against by Muslim leaders of the world, and are most of time. But you will never hear it. Because the media will not play it.

Again, these protestors number in the thousands, probably no more than that. To categorize over a billion Muslims as hatemongers over the actions of probably no more than fifty thousand around the world is not fair. But the media will show you those fifty thousand. Over and over again, as has been the case this week. Anytime Muslims do wrong, the ramifications are amplified manyfold to send a message-"Islam is a religion of violence.".

Look at this war in Iraq. Hundreds of thousands have been killed, tortured, humiliated in the name of freedom. Do we hear a lot about that? Do we get anniversaries and memorials in their honor? Yet, the only lives that truly matter were those few thousand that died on 9/11.

Media focus. That's what makes people think the way they do.

I do not ask you to like Islam. I do not ask you to become Muslim. All I ask is that you understand how vulnerable you are to the whims of those who convey to you the news, how they want, when they want.
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

Post Reply