I like comics, How 'bout you?

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:28 am

Cool! That sounds awesome, man. I'll need listening material while I draw my comic-book thesis over the next few months, so I'll check it out.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:29 am

So what do people think about the comic books coming out these weeks? I have one comic on my pull list in between last week and this week, and I'm bummed out that my LCS has gone from offering pull lists with a 15% discount on everything if you have one, to no pull lists and a 10% if you buy 6 comics on the same day.

But Secret Invasion has continued to suck, and Final Crisis has ramped it up, although it seems the the whole multiverse/Anti Monitor angle will inevitably come across as jammed in and forced whenever it happens. But I'm loving Submit, Resist, Revelations, and to a certain extant, Legion of the 3 Worlds, even though I have only a passing knowledge of the whole 31st Century Legion thing. Oh, and JG Jones screwed the pooch big time; the artist transitions in #4 are patently obvious.

1985 ended on a whimper. That seems to be an increasing trend with Millar for me: He comes up with a SUPER BAD ASS concept, and ratchets up the tension and expectation, and then falls on his ass tying everything up. I'm thinking Civil War, 1985, the first arc of FF, and most likely Kick Ass, the way the last issue drifted. That really sucks, because the endings to Chosen and Red Son were super super ace.

I'm still with Trinity, and I have no regrets thus far. Much more enjoyable than Countdown.
Herc is still the best, thou.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:09 am

Yes Herc is quality.

I quite liked the end to 1985, altho i'm not sure what it means having a character in the MU who knows its all stories. But yeah it could have been about 2 issues shorter if that was to be the ending. Know what you mean about Millar tho - the ending of Old Man Logan has great potential to tank already i think.

I have not minded Civil War but it should have been 6 issues not 8 and the Jan thing was horribly telegraphed. Best thing about it has probably been the Iniative and the Thor series. SI: Frontline has been terrible and lots of meh to good and back again in the Avengers titles. SI: X-Men had a pretty dastardly twist this month which i liked.

Enjoying the 2 main X-men titles, the Original Sin arc has added a bit more relevance to Wolverine Origins plus Deadeto's art is lovely.

Most importantly: Is anyone else reading Marvel Zombies 3? Its like an unnoffical NextWave sequel - which is about as big a recommendation as i can give and actually gives some nice insight into Aaron Stack's transition from straight laced hero to Fleshie hater.

Machineman would be quality for a film wouldn't he? Good time for it given the popularity of Iron Man and TFs.

Ultimate Spidey Annual was pretty good and a bit of a two fingers up to Brand New Day i think.

Oh, and Jeof Loeb's output is becoming synonymous with crap for me.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:16 pm

Incredible Herc is good? Must have improved around the time I dropped it (right before the God Squad).

I think I'm bowing out of most titles, and the ones I'm sticking with, I'm going trade. I'm just not retaining anything month to month anymore, which really detracts from the story. Maybe it's my age.

Sticking with The Initiative, Thunderbolts, and Iron Fist, dropping everything else Marvel related for now. Secret Invasion should have been six issues. The last issue in particular sucked.

I might give Daredevil a try. Anybody reading it? I'm thinking Brubaker is probably my favorite Marvel writer.

RASL #3 by Jeff Smith finally came out.....about four months late. I can't recall a damn thing that happened before. So, yep, going trade with it too.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:32 am

Yaya wrote:
I think I'm bowing out of most titles, and the ones I'm sticking with, I'm going trade. I'm just not retaining anything month to month anymore, which really detracts from the story. Maybe it's my age.

Mmm, i'm starting to get that with some titles as well. I'm not sure whether its just that i buy a lot of titles tho. Or that some writers just suck at continuity from issue to issue - Ultimate X-Men was one where half the time i felt like i missed an issue for example.

I am planning on moving again next year - might switch to trades on quite a few titles when i do.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:46 pm

Best First wrote:Ultimate X-Men was one where half the time i felt like i missed an issue for example.

I am planning on moving again next year - might switch to trades on quite a few titles when i do.

Was that during the infamous Robert Kirkman run? I think it worked rather swish when Millar and Bendis was writing it.

I had to drop it during Kirkman's run, it was simply too bloody dull. (Very, very hard to believe it's the same lad that wrote Marvel Zombies)

Might have to check out some kind of cliff-notes version of that run tho, since he wrote like 25 issues or so.

Anybody know what they're supposed to be doing with Ultimate X and FF after Ultimatum btw? I know Millar and Bendis is coming back in after that, to sort of "clean house", but I haven't actually heard if these two mags are going to continue.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:01 am

I KNOW the YouTubes are full, but....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azGhHh9mV_Q&NR=1

It's basically funny inside comics jokes with Marvel people interacting with DC people in a Robot Chicken style. Check out the OP. He's got LOTS of stuff.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:43 pm

I look at the new X-Men stuff by Brubaker and I can see the guy's trying... but seriously, which storyline has NOT been done in X-Men? Professor X died... seen it. Team broke up... seen it. Shi'ar Empire had a big political upset... seen it.

Joss's run even had some bits of "seen it" with the Danger Room and Emma's flip-out, though the mutant cure and Breakworld were good. Even Grant Morrison had some "seen it" syndrome with the Shi'ar intrigue and Cassandra Nova and Magneto infiltrating the X-Men... though as an insane drug addict I liked him much better than the traditional ideological difference. Oh, let's not forget the "Days of Future Past+Massive LSD Trip" that was "Here Comes Tomorrow."

The biggest "not-seen-it" lately has been "No More Mutants." And San Francisco, but I didn't see how a new city was such a great thing.

The whole concept of New Avengers, I think, really reinvented the team in a long-overdue way, and so continues to make a big splash, especially after Civil War (which even copied a former X-Men event) and with Secret Invasion (which looked really cool up until issue #2). Something like that needs to be done with X-Men... but seriously, what hasn't been done?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:33 pm

Yaya wrote:Bought some TPB's and comics that look appealing, though not sure how they will turn out:

Mouse Guard by David Petersen (haven't found Mice Templar yet, Sprunk)

Shazam The Monster Society of Evil TPB by Jeff Smith. Don't like Shazam, but it's J. Smith, so gotta give it a try.

Batman: Murder at Wayne Manor An Interactive Mystery by D. Swierczynski. My bro tells me its a mystery tale that somehow involves the reader (hence the title)

The Arrival, by Shaun Tan, a graphic novel story solely of illustration without dialogue using the magic of silent cinema and picture-story tradition. It's about an immigrant arriving at a fantastic new world. Looks amazing.

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed TPB by H. Blackman. Cause I'm a Star Wars fan.

Big Hero 6 #1 by Claremont, I understand its a story from Asia.

I'll let you know what I think. Anyone read and like any of these (without spoilers)?

Done reading these. So here's some brief feelings on the above:

Mouse Guard was actually quite good. Not on the level of Watership Down, but it certainly wasn't forgettable. In particular, the art very nice. Gave it an "A-".

Shazam The Monster Society of Evil TPB by Jeff Smith. It was alright. Not in any way on the level of Bone. It had that Bone-like innocent charm to it, for sure, but the story was a tad too childish for my liking. Give it a "B-".

Batman: Murder at Wayne Manor An Interactive Mystery . Actually enjoyed this. It's an interactive story, where they present you with clues, and you have to piece a murder mystery together alongside Batman. It was a different experience, one I found entertaining. Recommend it. "A-"

The Arrival by Shaun Tan. LOVED this. See independent thread for my feelings. One of my top three comic works ever, for sure. "A+"

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed TPB by H. Blackman. Based on the game, a story about Darth Vader's secret apprentice spotlighting how the Rebellion came to be. It was just okay. Not anywhere near as good as the other Star Wars Dark Horse titles, like Knights of the Old Republic. Gave it a "C". Don't read unless you're a hardcore SW fan.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:12 pm

byyyyyyyyyyyyy thzzzzzzzzzzzzz yoooooooouuuuuu crrrrrrntttts

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:28 pm

Batman R.I.P. is over. I wonder if LitG will have an update on how much of Morrison's story was changed by DC Editiorial.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Was it changed a lot? I flipped through it at the LCS.....surprised to see the Black Glove reveal, even though a lot of people had guessed it, but didn't read enough to see what Bruce thought about it. I DID like how the whole "Battle for the Cowl" thing seemed to be shaping up, though.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:03 pm

Unfortunately, I haven't read the 2,000 previous Batman stories required to fully understand what was going on.

I might be wrong, but has Batman's ID become known by the underworld? I know he's running around sans-mask, but that didn't seem to be acknowledged by anyone.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:18 pm

In the late spirit of Thanksgiving and Better Plotting Than Jeph Loeb, here's a hillarious clip that must be seen to believed:

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:36 pm

Shanti418 wrote:In the late spirit of Thanksgiving and Better Plotting Than Jeph Loeb, here's a hillarious clip that must be seen to believed:

I... I could not watch more than the first 20 or so seconds... too much! Too much pain! >_<

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:33 pm

Anybody reading Deadpool? It's awesome! Issue #4 got the biggest laughs out of me from a comic in a long time. Way is a superb writer.

Also, the new writer on Thunderbolts from this last issue holds promise. Never heard of him, but he writes well.

Glad Secret Invasion is coming to a close. Overall, the main arc was mediocre, but some of the side stories (like the Initiative issues) were fun.

The year-long Star Wars Vector saga comes to a close next month. Mediocre, I would say.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:47 pm

Yaya wrote: Also, the new writer on Thunderbolts from this last issue holds promise. Never heard of him, but he writes well.

Andy Diggle. His big series was The Losers, which I didn't care for. I dropped the title, but it was more due to economic conditions than a lack of interest.

Glad Secret Invasion is coming to a close. Overall, the main arc was mediocre, but some of the side stories (like the Initiative issues) were fun.

Yes, I'm interested to see how they go from SI to Dark Reign and the ultimate fate of the Skrulls. I thought the side issues were overall better than Civil War or WWH: I enjoyed FF, Thor, and Inhumans (and hated Frontline). But also, I feel ambivalent about Mighty and New Avengers. There were some issues that clicked into place and told you a lot, but there were others where the second I finished reading it I felt like I had wasted money. I think what kind of put a damper on it for me was that there were no big reveals (yet) post Pym and Drew, and I think Bendis LOOKED like he had a more extravagant plan before SI, whereas now he basically just mentioned it a few times over the years and then drew vast narrative connections.

The year-long Star Wars Vector saga comes to a close next month. Mediocre, I would say.

[/quote]

So what exactly happened? I was thinking about picking it up at the start, but my LCS never dependably got the issues. That was the same reason I dropped that Star Wars title set in the future with Cade Skywalker.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:55 pm

Shanti418 wrote:
Yaya wrote: Also, the new writer on Thunderbolts from this last issue holds promise. Never heard of him, but he writes well.
Andy Diggle. His big series was The Losers, which I didn't care for. I dropped the title, but it was more due to economic conditions than a lack of interest.

This guy is going to be big. I can tell from just one issue that this guy's got the goods. Gotta look up The Losers.

The year-long Star Wars Vector saga comes to a close next month. Mediocre, I would say.

So what exactly happened? I was thinking about picking it up at the start, but my LCS never dependably got the issues. That was the same reason I dropped that Star Wars title set in the future with Cade Skywalker.

Well, the last issue (the most important one) isn't out yet, but essentially a Jedi from the Old Republic, Celeste Morne, uncovers a Sith artifact called the Muur Talisman that essentially houses the persona of the ancient Sith Karness Muur. The item gives full control over the hordes of Rakghouls, a race of vampire like creatures, as well as providing it's wearer with longevity. Karness, still alive in the talisman, chooses Celeste as it's wearer. Because of this, Celeste is able to survive from the times of the Old Republic through the times of Revenge of the Sith (where she clashes with Vader) through the events of a New Hope (where she clashes with Luke) through the events of Legacy with Cade, where the story will conclude. Essentially, the purpose of the Muur Talisman was to allow Karness to live forever by taking over the body of it's wearer. So the whole time, Celeste struggles to stay in control of herself.

From the cover of the final issue, looks like the talisman finds a new wearer in Cade.

That's pretty much the gist of it. It was okay. Neat idea, but nothing spectacular.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:03 am

What is it with Jedis never dying? I remember the Exar Kun story having that thing too.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:13 am

sprunkner wrote:What is it with Jedis never dying? I remember the Exar Kun story having that thing too.

That story sucked.

He died, though, didn't he?

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:49 am

Uh.. not sure. How do you kill an evil spirit? I guess he got exorcised.

He was around for 4000 years, though. Hardcore.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:13 pm

sprunkner wrote:Uh.. not sure. How do you kill an evil spirit? I guess he got exorcised.

He was around for 4000 years, though. Hardcore.

Oh, you must be talking about some other story. I only remember reading about Exar Kun when he was alive and became a Sith and eventually was killed on that Yavin moon. I guess there was a story somewhere that took place sometime afterwards that I haven't got to read?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:48 pm

Yaya wrote:
sprunkner wrote:Uh.. not sure. How do you kill an evil spirit? I guess he got exorcised.

He was around for 4000 years, though. Hardcore.
Oh, you must be talking about some other story. I only remember reading about Exar Kun when he was alive and became a Sith and eventually was killed on that Yavin moon. I guess there was a story somewhere that took place sometime afterwards that I haven't got to read?

That would be the Jedi Academy trilogy. Not really Exar Kun in the spotlight, as it focuses mostly on Luke setting up his Jedi Academy, but it did introduce him and a few others, i.e. Kyp Durron, etc.

Don't think they had many non-movie-character-centric stories back in 1994, did they? No comics besides the old Marvel ones from the early '80s?

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:14 am

SECRET INVASION SPOILERS:

In actuality, this story is more epilogue than conclusion. Wasp from last issue is just some sort of unnamed biological bomb that's going to kill everything, and Thor stops her from killing everything in an equally muddy way (although Janet bites the big one(a shock value death if I ever saw one)), and after Janet dies, everyone's pissed, and all of a sudden Spider Skrully Woman is all alone, and before everyone can rip her to shreds, Norman Osborn gets in the kill shot in front of the cameras. Fliers take to the air to finish off the Armada, and Iron Man (in a retro suit he pulled out of the closet) finds a ship with all the REAL people that the Skrulls had replaced (Even Mockingbird). How conveniant!

Post Battle, Thor is still pissed at Iron Man, and Bucky Cap isn't chummy with him either. Fury teleports off without saying a word to the real Duggan, SHIELD is disbanded because it sure sucked it up, and in its place is an organization (known as HAMMER) led by Norman Osborn. Norman has been given the keys to the city, basically, and the big last page splash is Norman reveling in his new power and planning abuses of it therein around a table with Doom, Namor, Loki, The Hood, and Emma Frost.? Can one of you X-People tell me WTF is up with that? I thought she was all reformed and banging Cyclops and whatnot.

So yeah, there's no info in SI #8 about how and why the new Avengers teams come about. Civil War fans, FINALLY Tony Stark is hated by everyone and his life is in the ****ter. Not only do Cap and Thor still hate 'em, but he's percieved as the guy who screwed the pooch on the whole "The Initiative will keep us safe from threats!" thing, AND on top of that, the government also went the extra tech of ridding their systems of StarkTech, so he's feeling it in the pocketbook, too.

And what's up with Mockingbird? I thought she was dead for a WHILE. Like Avengers West Coast #100 early 90s a while. Are they saying the Skrulls replaced THAT one, or that the Skrulls were just like, "And you know what? We'll go ahead and throw in Mockinbird, no extra charge."

Oh yeah, and the whole thing with Jessica Jones/Baby's green eyes, etc....all we know is that Skrull Jarvis is gone and so is the baby.

The whole Norman Osborn angle is cool except it leaves him somewhere between a macro version of the late 90s Osborn that ran the Daily Bugle to conspire against Spider Man and a bad Marvel version of Lex Luthor as President.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:18 am

Shanti418 wrote:Emma Frost.? Can one of you X-People tell me WTF is up with that? I thought she was all reformed and banging Cyclops and whatnot.

My Reply with spoilerssss wrote:Marvel innit. No matter how much things change, other things have to revert in order to preserve some status quo.

Emma as Secretly Evil isn't just lazy, it's a reminder that the Marvel Universe will always be comfy and familiar and free from longterm dramatic impact.

Two years from now, Tony Stark will have redeemed himself and be a Big Damn Hero again.

And battle the Corporate Goblin. Wooha.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:51 am

Ozz, concernig Em, wrote:Her being in some business with Osborn doesn't mean she suddenly became evil again. If Cyclops can have X-Force hacking and slashing old X-Men foes left and right and keep it secret from his girlfriend, she can have her own plans which may be about something totally different than ruling the world. We could just wait for the special next week and then the Uncanny X-Men Annual which should reveal more about what's going on with Frost, but hell, why not just break into "Marvel this" and "Marvel that" right now.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:37 pm

I love how the Secret Invasion's last few pages are just Joe Q going, "Get it? Isn't this great? Don't you see how great this is going to be!"

Oh wait, no I don't. That's stupid. Almost as stupid as having the final issue of your 8 month long mini-series be nothing more than an epilogue.

And what the hell happened to Bendis? How did the guy who wrote POWERS devolve into scripting this drivel?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:38 pm

Read it.

I liked Civil War. I liked Planet Hulk.

I liked the concept of Secret Invasion, but the finale for me was somewhat of a letdown.

Not that I had high hopes for it. I like the elements that are set up now more than what actually ended up happening during Secret Invasion.

SPOILERS BELOW

I like that Stark is getting what he had coming to him. I like the idea that Oscorp was effective against the Skrulls when Starktech wasn't, and that Osborn gets the credit for that. Him killing the Skrull Queen was too over the top and wasn't really necessary to make him the hero of this whole venture. I mean, who else was next in the tech wars line but Oscorp?

Also disappointed that only Wasp bit it after all that. Should have been more casualties. What's worse is all those the skrulls impersonated survived. Even Dum Dum Dugan. Lame.

Marvel needs to be careful. I think they have been head and shoulders above DC in the risks they take and in the quality of their writers, but they have to be wary about these year long 'gimmick' stories that tie into everything. IMO, they shouldn't right away lead into another such epic. Give things some more time to breath, otherwise, the fans might get burnt out.

Overall:

Civil War gets an "A-"
Planet and WW Hulk gets a "B-"
Secret Invasion gets a "C+".

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:58 pm

Yaya wrote: Marvel needs to be careful. I think they have been head and shoulders above DC in the risks they take and in the quality of their writers, but they have to be wary about these year long 'gimmick' stories that tie into everything. IMO, they shouldn't right away lead into another such epic. Give things some more time to breath, otherwise, the fans might get burnt out.

Yeah, they're LEADING into Dark Reign, which won't be an event so much as an imprint a la "Initiative", "Unmasked" (for Spider Man), or "WWH: Aftershocks".

I hate it all. And that's ANOTHER thing about talking with the people who write your comics (like the AHM discussion): You may think you're getting the inside scoop, or they're being straight with you or whatever, but it turns out they are there to try and sell you comics, not be your best friends and they will say whatever it takes to get you to part with your money. So Bendis and Joe Q will say WHATEVER they want before and during SI to get you to buy SI, and will look back without regrets because hey, it sold comics.

But the problem is, is that so wrong? Look at it like a movie studio: Does Paramount apologize for Transformers lacking pathos and character development? No, it's a summer movie, a popcorn movie, a lets-get-butts-in-seats-so-we-can-make-a-killing movie. They have their dramas and independent films elsewhere. I'm sure this is the way Marvel is looking at this: that way, the sales of these events DO justify whatever crap there is in there or whatever PR bull they throw at you during.

But yeah, the part that does seem to be annoying are these "lead in" endings, (which again I'm sure they're doing to capitalize on SI's sales and push their line for the year, not unlike putting your new show you want to do well to premiere after the Super Bowl), which means that you don't get a solid ending. If I read Secret Invasion in trade, I'd be like, "OK, WTF happened now? Is there a Part 2 or something" This, surprisingly, is something Civil War got right - the miniseries got a REAL ending, and there were plenty of obvious threads dangling to make the story continue.

Here's it's like, Secret Invasion ends in the first 8 pages, and everything afterwards is selling you on things you haven't bought yet.

I just feel like a horse who has been chasing a carrot that is realizing the carrot is attached to the stick and no matter what you do, Joe Q will always keep the carrot just a LITTLE bit out of my reach, and goad me on to continue.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:17 pm

Well, the sad fact to me is that Bendis just ain't that good. Yet, we've been fed BS for over a year about how damn good he is.

Secret Invasion should be evidence enough that he's all hype.

Here, he thought he was weaving this intricately woven tale whose seeds were sown years ago, thinking how clever he is, and then, as Shanti says, doesn't conclude with a bang, but with....another carrot!

Joe Q has to do what he has to do. In all fairness, I have to give him credit for what he's done with Marvel, the directions he's dared to go with the company with Civil War and Planet Hulk. He does take chances. Sometimes its a win, sometimes its a lose.

Most importantly, I respect Joe Q's concern for maintaining continuity and respecting the past, even with things that have happened as far back as the 60's. (Shane could actually learn a thing or two about that kind of respect, because if Marvel can do it with a billion titles, surely he can deal with one?)

Anyway, I'm going through some changes myself, I've decided.

1. Manga, here I come. Going to give it a try. I hear some of the best and most memorable stories come from manga. I hope to find them.

2. Going trade. I just feel I'm wasting money on singles when I can't remember what happened last month.

3. Going to be more picky about what I buy. I like Thunderbolts, Deadpool, Initiative, Transformers, and Star Wars. If I pick up anything else from the Big Two, it will have to prove itself first.

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I like comics, How 'bout you?

Secret Invasion #8

Re: Secret Invasion #8