I like comics, How 'bout you?

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Thu May 04, 2006 8:45 pm

Best First wrote:Once Ellis left it was astoundingly bad, but at least it had some kind of identity, unlike X-Factor which, post the original 5 x-men didn't seem to know what it was.

Bunch of comedians disguised as a government sponsored mutant... eh, sorry, genetically-challenged team?

PAD's (old) X-Factor is another thing that I'm glad is getting rereleased.

Hama on Generation X... suprisingly, I didn't hate it and I was really afraid I would, considering what I heard before and how quickly he destroyed nice setup done by Claremont in Wolverine. And yes, every time some **** from that book showed up in GenX I cringed. ******* Elsie Dee. At least that rat and that chick got what they deserved, yeah!

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:25 pm

They got thrown into a black hole!

In the Wolverine/Venom mini. The art was despicable, the story infantile, but atleast we saw a gravimetric singularity put to good use.

No more napping for you... Dirt Nap..

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Thu May 04, 2006 9:50 pm

Predabot wrote:They got thrown into a black hole! In the Wolverine/Venom mini.

That was before they starred in Generation X.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Thu May 11, 2006 2:09 pm

So what did everyone thinik of the end of IC/start of CW/start of 52?

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Thu May 11, 2006 2:18 pm

I thought the first issue of Civil War was....ok. It could have done with being twice as long really.

House of M was kinda slow to start with too, I expect this will pick up like M did.

The latest issue of Nextwave is probably the funniest yet. The Captain's origin had me in stitches. This comic is a winner. I can see it making an excellent animated series too...

Post by **Best First** » Thu May 11, 2006 2:49 pm

see, this is where i get all out of loop, cos i get my comics shipped about once a month so i'ma bit behind.

made the collossal mistake of picking up the Decimation: x-Men: The Day After TPB the other day - i was just in a mood to spend money and thought i would give it a go.

Utter, utter rubbish. Absurdly contrived fighting, recycled plots and no character interest whatsoever. oh, and no real story arc, the TPB wrapped up hal way through a story - nice one. Bloody hell Havok and Polaris are uninteresting.

still, money well spent in the sense that i will continue to steer well clear of x-men comics while CC is one them...

Mate got me Secrret Wars TPB for my bday though - its a bit cheesey but quite enjoying its retro stylings.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Fri May 12, 2006 7:56 am

Yeah, I felt the same way on the Secret Wars TPB. Was actually a bit of a slog in places, simply because of teh style. But so many cool moments.

I tried the #1 issues of the Decimation event. The only one I liked and continued with was Son of M. What's in the Day After trade?

Just re-read the Dark Phoenix saga in TPB, coz of the tie-in scene from the last Astonishing X-Men, still pretty much holds up well. Do you guys think it's the best X-Men story, as is often claimed?

I liked Civil War #1, I did feel like there was something missing with it, but in a different way from HOM. I think I could have done with a bit of the Bendis verbal expansiveness in this, but on the other hand, Millar delivered his usual excellent action scenes and tight characterisation.
Plus it was like, really kewl.

Best comics recently for me were the latest Rex Libris and Ellis' new one, Wolfskin which I got just because it was Ellis and am now going to continue getting because it was really rather enjoyable.

I saw a couple of pages of IC, the ones where all 3 Superblokes fight on the green lantern planet, and then the original Superman goes out Lion King style.
A friend told me the end. He did a very good impression of someone getting their face burnt off by acid, electrocuted and then shot.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Fri May 12, 2006 8:59 am

KingMob wrote:What's in the Day After trade?

Claremont's House of M: The Day After and Milligan's X-Men #177-181, which are the issues where Milligan lost his mojo, IMO.

Dark Phoenix being the best one out of those big multi-part world shattering things, I dunno. It's quite brilliant, but i think I like Fall of the Mutants and X-Cutioner's Song more.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Fri May 12, 2006 9:00 pm

Best First wrote:
Mate got me Secrret Wars TPB for my bday though - its a bit cheesey but quite enjoying its retro stylings.

I love secret wars.

It works. Somehow.

Every character has their moment in the sun, even some of the villians (Galactus, Titanna, Molecule man, The Wreking crew) and it was the series that really elivated Doctor Doom as one of he best villians for me.

Post by **Best First** » Sat May 13, 2006 12:15 am

Ozz wrote:
KingMob wrote:What's in the Day After trade?
Claremont's House of M: The Day After and Milligan's X-Men #177-181, which are the issues where Milligan lost his mojo, IMO.

Dark Phoenix being the best one out of those big multi-part world shattering things, I dunno. It's quite brilliant, but i think I like Fall of the Mutants and X-Cutioner's Song more.

you can say that again. it was so poor i just assumed it was CC - its certainly a good imitation.

Personally Age of Apocalypse really did it for me.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sat May 13, 2006 6:23 am

The disco in Dark Phoenix makes it hard to swallow these days.

Especially when the characters have aged about five years max.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sat May 13, 2006 7:49 am

Best First wrote:
Ozz wrote:
Personally Age of Apocalypse really did it for me.

That was probably the best excuted crossover ever. I've felt the X-men never got this good again. Every X series was firing on all cylinders there.
Actually all the big X-storylines from the 80's untill the mid\late 90's were good.

Post by **Denyer** » Sat May 13, 2006 8:33 am

Phalanx Convenant wasn't bad. Asgardian War has aged... the whole Cyclops/Phoenix in the future thing -- the whole "set future events in stone and then have to retcon around massively" -- didn't work for me, personally.

There's good stuff in there, but I think "all" is nostalgia talking...

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sat May 13, 2006 9:24 am

Well Cyclops and Phoenix has hardly abig X-story line. At that period most characters were getting their own limited series that had to somehow shove the characters off somewhere away from the main comic.

Asgardian War was more of an annual storyline which are neve important.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sat May 13, 2006 9:26 am

Well Cyclops and Phoenix was hardly a big X-story line. At that period most characters were getting their own limited series that had to somehow shove the characters off somewhere away from the main comic.

Asgardian War was more of an annual storyline which are never important.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Sat May 13, 2006 11:31 am

AOA was pretty much what got me into Xmen comics in the first place. It's stll a great read now.

Nothing tops Morrison's Xmen run though.

Post by **Best First** » Sat May 13, 2006 11:48 am

Jetfire wrote:Well Cyclops and Phoenix has hardly abig X-story line. At that period most characters were getting their own limited series that had to somehow shove the characters off somewhere away from the main comic.

Dude. Cyclops and Phenoix was huge - the fate of their son, the origin of Cable, the origin of Stryfe, the fate of Apocolypse, it was way more significant than some random Rogue story and had far more implications for a number of ongoings than most other ltd series and addressed storylines that had been running for years.

Phalanx was quite good fun, although the best thing about it was that it launnched Gen X.

I think Whedon's stuff is as good as Mozzas personally.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sat May 13, 2006 6:53 pm

It's a shame that Joss is having to work around all this 198 crap... they should just give him control of all the X-titles and let him run with it.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Sat May 13, 2006 7:06 pm

Ah yes, but you see the problem with that is that then he'd have to get into a fisticuffs with Brubaker and David over it.

I'm sure it could be divided within reason of course, but I have the nagging feeling that this is what's happening right now.

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Sun May 14, 2006 1:04 am

Best First wrote:
Jetfire wrote:Well Cyclops and Phoenix has hardly abig X-story line. At that period most characters were getting their own limited series that had to somehow shove the characters off somewhere away from the main comic.
Dude. Cyclops and Phenoix was huge - the fate of their son, the origin of Cable, the origin of Stryfe, the fate of Apocolypse, it was way more significant than some random Rogue story and had far more implications for a number of ongoings than most other ltd series and addressed storylines that had been running for years.

I re read it ocassionally. I like it all a lot and specially moments like the 3 of them facing apocalypse in issue 4. The text there and all the things the characters think and do are pretty good

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Sun May 14, 2006 9:30 am

Ozz wrote:
KingMob wrote:What's in the Day After trade?
Claremont's House of M: The Day After and Milligan's X-Men #177-181, which are the issues where Milligan lost his mojo, IMO.

Oh, Turd City then. Thanks. I keep hearing Milligan X-Men is awful - never read any of it - shame, really. Dead Girl is great.

AoA is my fave also - people been getting the trades? It's great to re-read the story, but the 90's art style makes them somewhat unwieldy when collected...the numerous skip pages that have to be inserted to work out all the double-page spreads...which a lot of are vertical for no particularly clear reason...but ah, Generation Next might just be the best X-comic evah.

Liked Phalanx Covenant a lot as well. Some of those storylines are...not great, IMHO. Even then I thought Bloodties was a crock.

Apols if people already check this site out, but the indexes can make quite interesting reading, when you're in the mood:
http://www.thexaxis.com/indexes/intro.htm
Most of the 90's are done on both Uncanny and Adjectiveless.

Post by **Best First** » Sun May 14, 2006 12:00 pm

Generation Next is just amazing, it saddens me that such a great bunch of characters under Lobdell have been pretty much wasted (figuuratively and litterally in some cases)

i don't think i have read blood ties. Is that the one where Wolvie loses the metal and Collosus goes bad?

X-tinction agenda is... ok, bits are great but a lot of that is more down to the quality of Jim Lee's artwork but some of the art is shambolic. Hodge is a bit of a twatty bad guy as well.

X-cutioners... i quite like, although for me its a good Cable story with a few too many extra trimmings

to be honest one of my fave x-stories is the first three issues of Adjectiveless, back when CC still kind of of knew what was what and Lee was on fire but AOA is pretty peerless IMO, maybe in part because the whole alt universe setting gives the opportunity for raising stakes but also i think because it was just so well planned, each individual strand worked on its own but equally worked in forging towards x-Men: Omega.

"What are you doing?"

"Concentrating"

ace.

looking through that index tat the latest CC issues "the X-Men fight super dinosaurs." of dear.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Sun May 14, 2006 1:34 pm

Best First wrote:i don't think i have read blood ties. Is that the one where Wolvie loses the metal and Collosus goes bad?

Almost, that's Fatal Attractions, which is also pants IMHO. Bloodties happesn almost straight afterwards it's the one where Fabian Cortez kidnaps Luna and the X-Men and Avengers go to Genosha.

Adjectiveless 1-3 were great, I re-read those issues (and I think the next one, where there was a basketball game and then Rogue + Gambit's first attempt to go on a date) over and over again when I was younger.

Considering how the character was developed for...most of the rest of the time since, actually, X-Men #1-3 might have made a good 'the last Magneto story'?

Post by **Best First** » Sun May 14, 2006 2:22 pm

yeah, totally, although he does sacrifice himself a bit needlessly. I bloody love Xaviers speech at the end of the sequence though.

I guess its always going to be the problem with strong characters - people want to use them and put their own mark on them but often that spoils what was good about the character in the first place or just over exposes them and waters down their impact. Usually both.

Always leave them wanting more has to be the guiding principle but i can see why people aren't very good at following it. Buffy Season 20 please.

the next issue is the one where Wolvie gets nabbed by Fenris isn't it? I recall my teenage mind being slightly mangled by the shot of Psylocke in her bikini...

I recall at the time the launch was so big that the first few issues even appeared in regular news agents.

I have read bloodties in that case. Its 'stupid really powerful character who you don't really care about' time. Although my biggest bugbear is that Cortez is killed and then he's back in some crap x-story a few months later. Oh, and Sersi and the Blacknight - does anyone give a damn? One thinks not.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Sun May 14, 2006 6:43 pm

I spent this morning reading the sypnopsis for most of the Uncannys in the lat 10 years. You really get the impression that the book has struggled more than it has shone.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Sun May 14, 2006 6:44 pm

KingMob wrote:I keep hearing Milligan X-Men is awful - never read any of it - shame, really.

Personally, I loved his first two arcs. It's a bit like X-Statix where he does somewhat ridiculous plots with great character interaction, but in X-Men they are more bit serious. He got quite interesting cast, with Rogue and Gambit having problems with each other and Havok-Polaris-ceman love triangle plus he added Emma Frost, who gest the best lines. Third arc, a cross-over with Black Panther was a bit worse on account half of it being written by the other mag's writer. Then came Decimation stuff, and his current storyline with Apoc is mediocre, but still can fall apart.

If you'll ever have chance to read Bizarre Love Triangle, you might try it.

AoA I liked like half of it... The issues that weren't part of X-Men related thread (Factor X, Weapon X and X-Man) didn't really grab me. I loved Generation Next the most, too. And was it me, or all of those series had really good artists at the time?

X-tinction Agenda was weird. We got in Poland onyl 1/3 of it, the Uncanny parts by Lee/Claremont. And that was quite cool. I read whole story few years later. Other parts had worse art and mainly consisted of X-people running around and getting caught/hurt stupidly.

X-Cutioner's Song I love, because it's really good example of how to make a story about four super-teams actually good instead of having thirty characters meet, fight, make up and spend last installment standing in large group and exchanging stupid lines.

As for many deaths of Magneto, my favourite was the one in Eve of Destruction, when it's clear that Magneto must be eliminated, but Xavier hestitates, so Wolvie simply guts him. I like that story, kind of end of an era.

Hound wrote:I spent this morning reading the sypnopsis for most of the Uncannys in the lat 10 years. You really get the impression that the book has struggled more than it has shone.

Having read all of that, I concur.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sun May 14, 2006 6:54 pm

If Whedon did one X-book and Lobdell the other, we would have happiness and harmony throughout the entire universe. Or so I've always thought.

Adjectiveless 1-3 were great. Plus the ones where Jim Lee kept drawing all the women in skimpy swimsuits.

Post by **Best First** » Sun May 14, 2006 7:22 pm

Hound wrote:I spent this morning reading the sypnopsis for most of the Uncannys in the lat 10 years. You really get the impression that the book has struggled more than it has shone.

word.

also, is it me, but if you total up the number of times Xavier has either used his powers in a dodgy fashion, utterly lied to his team and/or had something extremely dubious come back from his past to haunt him that he just turns out to be a guy with a nice idea but a very dubious way of going about things and a bit of a messiah complex?

If i was on the X-Men i would have grave reservations about anything he did or said.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Sun May 14, 2006 9:11 pm

Sod that, every writer seems to ditch Xavier at the first possible opportunity. He doesn't even have a chance to manipulate people!

Post by **Best First** » Sun May 14, 2006 9:37 pm

come on, he tried to kill his sister in the womb, respressed an emerging alien life form, fancied Jean when she was about 17, messed Moira about, messed Amelia Voigt about, pretty much abandoned his ker-azy son, takes random leaves of absence whenever he feels like it, occassionally forces his leadership on the team and he's all shouty.

he's a nobber.