The fall and sorta rise of Star Wars. My take.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:44 pm

I think 2-3 would have been better minus Hayden... is he trying to sound sarcastic or somthing, he just come across as being naff.

also 3 would have been better if they had come up with a better idea for why Anakin just turned evil.

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:29 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Have you noticed that in Eps 2 and 3 they made Obi-Wan much more of a dude? I think that helped immeasurably, as the other characters are a bit drab.

Yes

Well, no. I mean, in Episode 2 he was a poncy git, but less so than in Episode 1. In three he's like a slightly silly, but loveable Jedi goofball who gets by as much on luck as his skill re: his fight with General Grievous.

I liked the fact that he smiled a bit this time around and was a bit more chilled out rather than the starchy, simpering and uptight goody two-shoes they made him out to be in the earlier episodes.

It's not perfect. As a kid when watching A New Hope, Alec Guiness had a very visual twinkle in his eye when talking about the past, and I would imagine him as a rougish, roister-doistering bounder and cad. Basically Alan Whicker with a lightsabre.

Episodes 1 and 2 shat all over that. So that's why I was glad for his depiction in 3, but they still should have bumped his Alan Whicker-ness up a few notches i.e. the off-screen daliances with the ladies, the cutting Bond-like quip for the baddies. The ol' glint in the eye. And a bloody good Jedi to boot.

George Lucas short-changed Kenobi to the tune of billion$ in my book.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:03 pm

Yeah, if only he'd been like that in Eps 1 and 2. It seemed Ewan put a bit of his personality into it in 3.

I mean, in Ep 5 when Obi-wan makes out he used to be 'reckless', you look back at Ep 1 and think, No.

Missed opportunity.

But I do think the transition from 3 to 4 is quite believable. He really had the right look in 3.

"Alan Whicker with a lightsabre"

Post by **Best First** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:06 am

Auntie Slag wrote: George Lucas short-changed Kenobi to the tune of billion$ in my book.

Him and, what's his name again? That big dude in the black armour? Used to be regarded as scarey, now primarily thought of as a whiney bell?

I still think Ep 3 should have ended with Obi -Wan killing Anakin and then Geroge popping up on screen ad going "There! Now it doesn't even make sense! ahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!".

That would have been brilliant.

Don't actually own any of the new ones on DVD.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:11 am

I actually had one moment - I think it was when he was chasing Greivous on that big lizard thing, when I thought Yes, this is what Kenobi should be like. But only for a moment.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:48 am

Best First wrote: Him and, what's his name again? That big dude in the black armour? Used to be regarded as scarey, now primarily thought of as a whiney bell?

Yeah, although Hayden was a teeny bit less crap in Ep3, you're right... he's still given Vader a whiney arse background, it's no wonder "Vader betrayed and murdered" him...

Metal Vendetta wrote:I actually had one moment - I think it was when he was chasing Greivous on that big lizard thing, when I thought Yes, this is what Kenobi should be like. But only for a moment.

Yes, i know what you mean, however in general i thought Kenobi was a hell of a lot better in this one that in the previous ones...

now we just got to ignore the fact that he ages something like 40 years in the 20 year gap between Eps 3 & 4.

Would have loved to see the "Wicker with a Lightsaber" approach tho!

Post by **Best First** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:55 pm

Obi is def better in ep 3... whether that is good enough is a different matter.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:17 pm

Best First wrote:Obi is def better in ep 3... whether that is good enough is a different matter.

Well, i would have liked to have seen him be even better, but i think that he was adequately Alecenobi in some of his stuff for there it to work. Don't forget, Obiwan spends the next 20 years as a hermit, hanging out with Sand people and smugglers in the Cantina, gonna make him change quite a bit anyway before we see him again

Post by **Best First** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:40 pm

What you don't see is that he has a boradband connection and spends most of his time downloading grot for free after Quigon shows him how.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:43 am

Best First wrote:What you don't see is that he has a boradband connection and spends most of his time downloading grot for free after Quigon shows him how.

Does he go into the chat rooms with the alias of "Ben" ?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:33 pm

I believe he uses "Crazy Old Wizard"

This may also explain his wan apperance.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:03 pm

Best First wrote:I believe he uses "Crazy Old Wizard"

This may also explain his wan apperance.

ah yes, thought there was a touch of mmorpg addict about his appearnce in EpIV...

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:34 pm

http://mushroom.nosox.org/b3ta/episode1.gif

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:37 pm

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:58 pm

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:05 am

I watched Episode III yesterday (second time I saw it).

The first time I saw it I said that it had that "Star Wars feeling to it".
I take that back.

There's one part in the movie that I really love. I think it's ******* brilliant and I get chills down my spine when I see it, and that's when Obi-Wan hollers "You were The Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy The Sith, not join them! It was you who would bring balance to The Force, not leave it in Darkness! [Hayden tries to act] You were my brother, Anakin. I loved you."
(and overall I think Ewan McGregor does a good job in Episode III).

But the rest of it? Meh... Hayden and Portman stink. The dialouge is horrible (I saw the movie without subtitles this time, so I listened more to the dialouge).
And I still don't get the whole "I have the higher ground" thing.
In every fight people goof around like friggin Flubber - but if you're standing two feet above your opponent, POW, you're untouchable..?

Anakins turn to evil isn't convincing.
And I find myself thinking "How the hell did Anakin turn into the übercool Darth Vader?"

Etc etc. It sucks.

On another note; The Emperor says "I have a new apprentice, one that will become more powerful than you and I" (when talking to Yoda).
So, is Darth Vader more powerful than the emperor in the Old Trilogy?
And if so; How powerful is Luke? 'Cause the Emperor wants Luke to take his fathers place, right?
Or am I missing something here.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:50 am

Obfleur wrote: On another note; The Emperor says "I have a new apprentice, one that will become more powerful than you and I" (when talking to Yoda).
So, is Darth Vader more powerful than the emperor in the Old Trilogy?
And if so; How powerful is Luke? 'Cause the Emperor wants Luke to take his fathers place, right?
Or am I missing something here.

I think Vader had the potential for being more powerful, back in Ep1 Quigon tells us that Anakin has more of those ****** little made up things living in him that Yoda does, making him more intune with the force.
But, after Obiwan kicks his arse and Padme dies, Vader is left with emotional problems and an emotional dependance to the Emperor. These severely limit his potential i reckon. He feels he owes Palply his life and actually beleives in what he's doing, so he's not going to be usurping him (like he was tempted to do before Obiwan did him in). It's not until Luke begins to redeem him later on that he starts to kick back against the Emperor.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:04 am

Obfleur wrote: And I still don't get the whole "I have the higher ground" thing.
In every fight people goof around like friggin Flubber - but if you're standing two feet above your opponent, POW, you're untouchable..?

High Ground Bonus + Lightside Beard Enlightenment + Force Speed Accent Mastery = Obi-Wan has a 72 point Unstoppable Alan Whicker attack.

Anakin's Defence rating is only 55, and his resistances had been lowered by his use of Sith Bedwetter Rage (attack bonus at defence cost).

...when fans kept petitioning Lucas to put stuff from the EU into the movies, I don't think they were expecting the combat system coders from KotOR to take over fight choreography...

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:30 am

KingMob wrote:...when fans kept petitioning Lucas to put stuff from the EU into the movies, I don't think they were expecting the combat system coders from KotOR to take over fight choreography...

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:11 pm

Obfleur wrote:
On another note; The Emperor says "I have a new apprentice, one that will become more powerful than you and I" (when talking to Yoda).
So, is Darth Vader more powerful than the emperor in the Old Trilogy?
And if so; How powerful is Luke? 'Cause the Emperor wants Luke to take his fathers place, right?
Or am I missing something here.

Basically, Anakin was to be the most powerful jedi ever, but after his fight with Obi-wan he was left as half a man in a life support suit. So he never fulfilled his potential and Luke was potentially stronger. Thats why the Emperor was quite happy to ditch Vader at the end of Jedi and get a more powerful apprentice.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:39 pm

There's something that's been bothering me about Palpatine/Sidious in Episodes 1-3. It's only a minor niggle, but I thought I'd see if anyone could shed some light on it for me?

Okey dokey then-I remember there was some debate on here as to whether Sidious' craggy old face was a result of him being disfigured by his own force-lightning being deflected back at him, or whether his 'Palpatine Face' is just a disguise and the attack caused him to drop the facade. In the end, I believe it was decided (with back-up from the Episode III book) that the latter was the case.

If this is the case, is there are any explanation as to why whenever we see him as Sidious, his face isn't disfigured? Granted, most of the time his face is all but covered by his hood, but from what I remember the face under the hood is the Palpatine version, not the manky Sidious one. Like I said, it's a minor niggle but to me it would make more sense for him to use his 'true' face in conjunction with the hood so there's less chance of anyone figuring out who he is, and what he's up to? I'm basing this on the brief bit of AOTC I watched the other day, and I haven't got the time, inclination or patience to see if this is the case throughout the new trilogy, so apologies if I'm wrong.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:52 pm

Pissin' Poonani wrote:If this is the case, is there are any explanation as to why whenever we see him as Sidious, his face isn't disfigured? Granted, most of the time his face is all but covered by his hood, but from what I remember the face under the hood is the Palpatine version, not the manky Sidious one. Like I said, it's a minor niggle but to me it would make more sense for him to use his 'true' face in conjunction with the hood so there's less chance of anyone figuring out who he is, and what he's up to? I'm basing this on the brief bit of AOTC I watched the other day, and I haven't got the time, inclination or patience to see if this is the case throughout the new trilogy, so apologies if I'm wrong.

You mean when we see him under the hood in 1-3, yeah?

At a guess, maybe maintaining the illusion used a lot of power, and once it was broken he wouldn't be able to recreate it.

You construct yourself an elaborate new face, then drop it... there may be no guarantee you'll be able to get it back exactly as it was before.

[/Rough guess]

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:55 pm

It's a three-fold downfall, really

1. The prequals didn't live up to the quality of the first trilogy in many people's opinions. Star Wars ends leaving a bad taste in the mouth of popular culture. It's bound to affect how we view the rest of the series.

2. So much of the allure of Star Wars was its potential. We watched those movies truly believing that the best might still be yet to come. There were so many stories that had only been hinted at, between 3 and 6 mysterious sequals in the works for over twenty years, and no reason to suspect that any of this would end up being anything short of amazing. Now that we see the original trilogy as the high point of the series rather than the begining of something much greater, so much of the allure of Star Wars is lost. Apparently, so much of what we believed in and were waiting for was more of a fantasy than we ever could have suspected.

3. For three decades, Star Wars was the only major motion picture adventure franchise that had a story that spanned several films (in a planned way as opposed to through mindless sequals), attracted a wide and diverse audience with each installment, and had a high rewatchability factor too. Lord of the Rings changed all of that, opening the doorway for the Harry Potter series, Narnia, Pirates of the Carribean, and possibly even Spider-Man and the new Batman films. Star Wars just doesn't stand out as unique in the same way anymore.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:13 pm

Brendocon wrote:
You mean when we see him under the hood in 1-3, yeah?

At a guess, maybe maintaining the illusion used a lot of power, and once it was broken he wouldn't be able to recreate it.

You construct yourself an elaborate new face, then drop it... there may be no guarantee you'll be able to get it back exactly as it was before.

[/Rough guess]

Good theory that man-you do however realise that George Lucas will have stolen your explanation by now, and taken steps to ensure that "It was always my intention for it to be that way, and not an oversight on my part. Brendo-who? Erm, never heard of him..."

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:27 pm

The Palpy face thingy annoys me too.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:43 pm

If I remember correctly we never get to see Palpy in Episode IV.
Why? Maybe because Lucas wanted to keep the main bad guy 'secret' (which I find kind of cool).

But after Episode I, II and III he's not very 'secret' any more.
So why doesnt he show his face in Episode IV?
"Because Anakin turned in to Darth in Episode III and now we'll focus on him" - but that doesnt sound right to me, since an Episode III wasnt planned.
I gotta go home from work so I cant finish my crappy thoughts - but I hope ya'll can figure out what I mean.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:11 pm

Obfleur wrote:If I remember correctly we never get to see Palpy in Episode IV.
Why?

...because he probably hadn't thought of him yet. As much as Lucus lies and says otherwise now, he made up most of the series by the seat of his pants. Luke was originally supposed to be an older Obi-Wan type general, which means Vadar couldn't have been slated to be his father. Luke and Leia definitely weren't slated to be brother and sister in the first film either (check out that kiss in the Death Star!). Chances are, Lucus still believed Vadar was the head honcho when he filmed A New Hope too. He's not crafty enough to have held that surprise for so long. I'm willing to bet the same is true of Yoda. Not planned yet.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:18 pm

Obfleur wrote:If I remember correctly we never get to see Palpy in Episode IV.
Why? Maybe because Lucas wanted to keep the main bad guy 'secret' (which I find kind of cool).

well, when ep IV was originally made, lucas had no idea if he was goign to make anymore and didn't want to throw too much into one film i guess.
i've heard, rather worryingly, rumours that there are plans to put a short Paply scene into some future version of EpIV to go before Tarkin mentions that the Emperor has "dissolved the Senate permenantly"...
i get the feeling that, should this ever come to pass, it will stick out like a sore thumb and be a bit ****... much like the whole Jabba scene...

talking of which, Boba's short stint in the DE of EpIV might have a bit more whack for first time viewers after EpII. People* might think, hang on, who's that? Jango got killed in EpII...

*not particulary bright people...

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:29 pm

One glaring ommision that proves how utterly useless Lucas has become:

He tries, and fails miserably, to inject humour into AOTC via C3PO and his "Die Jedi Dogs!/This is such a drag" crap, when all he had to do for instant hilarity and the possible salvation of the trilogy, was to have Jangos head fall out of the bottom of his helmet when Boba picks it up off of the arena floor.

Would. Have. Loved. That.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:32 pm

Legion wrote:i've heard, rather worryingly, rumours that there are plans to put a short Paply scene into some future version of EpIV to go before Tarkin mentions that the Emperor has "dissolved the Senate permenantly"...
i get the feeling that, should this ever come to pass, it will stick out like a sore thumb and be a bit ****... much like the whole Jabba scene...

Is this the version where he dubs every single Stormtrooper with an annoying Kiwi accent to match the clones in Eps 1-3?

"Leck sair! Drayads!"
"Thise err net thar drayads werr lecking fear. Moive elaong. Moive elaong."