LotR - extended version and what not.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:38 am

I'd just like to say, for no real reason, that I think the Death Star Trench Run is the most awesome thing ever. Even better than a shiny robot dinosaur that could transform into the Duke of Wellington.
I played this for hours yesterday:
Get set up for your attack run

I love Lord of the Rings, big Tolkien geek here, but I can kinda see where Impy is coming from.
Fellowship of the Ring is possibly my favourite film...no wait, that's Aliens. Uh, top three anyway. But the OT Star Wars films would be in there before the other two parts of LOTR. They are lacking something (a focused plot I guess - unavoidable I know, but still...and the OMG KEWL bits irk me) compared to the first part, whereas all 3 OT SW movies deliver the gold. Even the one with the Ewoks.

However, there's no way I could say the cast of Star Wars are better actors than the cast of LOTR. Or stronger characters...for most. And the books colour the films in the that respect.

But to be properly honest, I don't really care, they're both tops and I'm glad we have them.

The ring thing...it weakens all bearers over time, metnally and physically (with the exception being longevity, obv) as it's basically too strong' for mortals...however, the weight felt by Frodo is, while not specific to him, something only he really, really goes on about IIRC. When Sam wears it in Cirith Ungol, I seem to recall he feels a weight, also...but describes it more as a pull he had to resist, whereas Frodo seems to feel pressed to the ground.
Basically agree with anglo; likely just the proximity to Sauron combined with amount of pressure/psychological/physical draining aready felt by the bearer. Sam jumped about a fair bit when he wore it. And Frodo was cracking up bad by the time they got into Mordor.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:34 am

The actors thing is still debatable.

There's not much to seperate an Astin or Bloom from a Hamill or Fisher. Of course you've got Blanchett, Hill, Lee and McKellen to fall back on, but McDiarmid, Guinness, Ford and Cushing are no pushovers!

I think Jackson and co did an amazing job making workable screenplays from a very chunky book, but I don't put them in the same league as Kasdan or Brackett, who are truly great screenwriters.

As far as the source material is concerned, LOTR wins, but Lucas might be the closest to a modern day Tolkien as we'll get.

Ah, LOTR vs SW. Fanboys will continue to debate which is best across the lands...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:41 am

Makes sense that the ring would manifest itself in the bearer's subconscious in a way that's related to their perceptions of it.

Frodo regarded it as a burden? And as such, it grew heavier around his neck the longer he carried it.

Sam views it as a driving force, pulling them towards Mordor. Therefore a pulling sensation.

Lordy knows what Gollum's subconscious thought of it...

Spidey wrote:Lucas might be the closest to a modern day Tolkien as we'll get.

You mean that Lucas pioneered the clichés that everybody else uses today?
Or that Tolkien gave us shoddy dialogue and was a cack director?

Sean Astin directed an episode of Angel. Mark Hamill never did that! But then, Astin was never reduced to appearing in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back... or at least he hasn't been yet.

Aah, Hobbits. A tv director, a heroin-addict rock star and Kevin from Sin City. How can we not love you?

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:55 am

Brendocon wrote:
Aah, Hobbits. A tv director, a heroin-addict rock star and Kevin from Sin City. How can we not love you?

By finding out the most beautiful woman in the world, Evangeline Lilly, is dating him.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:58 am

Jetfire wrote:By finding out the most beautiful woman in the world, Evangeline Lilly, is dating him.

What? All three of them? The filthy slutwhore!

The miraculous pulling power just adds to the mystique! Like when Alexis Denisof pulled Aly Hannigan, it somehow elevated him beyond the level of coolness that even the Wydam-Pryce had attained.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:00 am

Brendocon wrote:
Spidey wrote:Lucas might be the closest to a modern day Tolkien as we'll get.
You mean that Lucas pioneered the clichés that everybody else uses today?
Or that Tolkien gave us shoddy dialogue and was a cack director?

Nope! The fact that Lucas brought to us between '77 and '83 a whole universe of characters and places that caught the imagination of so many.

Since then he's done his best to ruin it.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:19 am

spiderfrommars wrote: Nope! The fact that Lucas brought to us between '77 and '83 a whole universe of characters and places that caught the imagination of so many.

Since then he's done his best to ruin it.

Yeah. Raiders of the Lost Ark was pretty amazing. But I think Spielberg deserves his share of the credit there.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:06 am

spiderfrommars wrote:
Brendocon wrote:
Spidey wrote:Lucas might be the closest to a modern day Tolkien as we'll get.
You mean that Lucas pioneered the clichés that everybody else uses today?
Or that Tolkien gave us shoddy dialogue and was a cack director?

Nope! The fact that Lucas brought to us between '77 and '83 a whole universe of characters and places that caught the imagination of so many.

Since then he's done his best to ruin it.

yeah, at least tolkien had teh decency to die.

I'm afraid i can't help but let the new SW films slightly taint my enjoyment of the old ones.

Ah well, Serenity is better anyway. And Aliens. And possibly Mallrats.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:16 am

Silent Bob is a god damn Jedi!

Post by **Best First** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:25 am

you bet your ass

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:20 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: SW achives very much the same, oh and not to mention SW has a decent script. think about the other day when we were listing quotes from SW, there are so many cool quotes u can do it for ages.

Just because a movie has cool quotes(/quotes you remember) doesn't mean its script is good?

"RUN! GET TO DA CHOPPA!"
"You're one ugly *************"
"Stick around

"
"If it bleeds, we can kill it"

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:49 am

I think if a film has lines init which are worth repeating you know they were doing somthing right?

I meanthats the thing I cant recall any line from LotR apart from the "one ring to bind them all..." line

Nearly everyone I know can recall a SW or twwo, it seems to be littered with cool bits of, well, 'script, - ok I understand that a cool line doesnt make a good script completely but it must go half the way - if u look at how bad the new SW film scripts are, because they handle the SW world so badley - it makes u appreciate how good the old script was

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:40 pm

Oh... sniff.... I'm such a nerd... I need to argue this and I can't help myself! (Cries like a junkie on withdrawals)

Rings beats SW. It's better acted, stronger thematically. Maybe not quite as enchanting, but close enough.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:26 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:I think if a film has lines init which are worth repeating you know they were doing somthing right?

so, Harriosn Ford ad libs and suddenly teh script is good? Don't think so.

I meanthats the thing I cant recall any line from LotR apart from the "one ring to bind them all..." line

doesn't mean no one esle can. Plus bear in mind you have had 20 years of repeate viewings to learn them.

Nearly everyone I know can recall a SW or twwo, it seems to be littered with cool bits of, well, 'script, - ok I understand that a cool line doesnt make a good script completely but it must go half the way

why, excactly?

- if u look at how bad the new SW film scripts are, because they handle the SW world so badley - it makes u appreciate how good the old script was

no as bad as utter sh*** isn't the most glowing recommendation.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:36 pm

I can't think of a single line from SW, other than "use the force" or somesuch, rubbish. Which is only because it's been quoted in just about everything else, ever.

Nobody knows any lines from LotR? Fair enough, my precious.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:50 pm

Harrison ad libs and what. I thin u ight find every actor ad libs to some degree. do u know exatcly how much of SW he did ablib to make such a comment?

Regardless of 20 years of repeat viewing (begs the question why have i watched em for 20 years etc... bad script, no) LoTr doesnt have memorable lines. im sure some die hard fans of LoTr can recall some lines but it doesnt have anything that stands out.
Its all very genric, lets go here and do that, it suffers what i would call 'riker syndrome' - as in Star Trek where they to explain whats going on, on screen for the benifit of the half stupid. some of the script is passionate between Frodo and Sam, but it still lacks coolness.

YOu can define what makes somthing cool, SW has it, LotR doesnt - its script doesnt excite in the same way SW does - ppl recall SW lines because they are cool, they are so cool u dont forget them, its like moments in a film are defined by it. I cant actually think of a defining moment in LoTr.

For example, "no luke I am your father!" - cheese it might be but I swear humans are born with tatooed upon thier DNA or somthing. its cool. LoTR doesnt have these moments. its has a big battle, a cool special effect etc but it lacks the lines..
"I love you - I know!
"USE THE FORCE LUKE!"

A decent line stuck into an action film add weight to scene, because otherwise its just plain action, script adds interaction and emotion.

for example.

Terminator - "ill be back" - simple line, but when he comes back, he comes back in freaking style. the line is cemented in history, when someone speaks that line to you, if there not joking they mean buissness just like the T-100 did.
So a few simple lines of dialouge can make the best action sequence so much more powerfull. SW somehow got the balance right.
As much as everyone knows "ill be back" - the same can be said for SW lines.

The recent films fall down so much because they lack even one decent single line thats worth sticking in your head and remebering - the only ones u do recall are because they are silly.

SW script brings out the best in SW set pieces, LoTR bombards you with special effects in much the same way the recent SW movies do. of course the LOTR script is far better then the recent SW, and its actors far better (bar Ewan who was working with **** but still good in Sith) but it lacks the great moments of great scrips, like Terminator, like Aliens etc and ultimately SW.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:04 pm

maybe if you just post longer and longer rants about it people will just stop disagreeing...

zzzzzzzzzz.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:11 pm

never thought id see the day you react like that

"you disapoint me"

oh look, SW again

Post by **Best First** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:20 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:never thought id see the day you react like that

"you disapoint me"

oh look, SW again

yeah, that combination of words is entirely unique to Starwars.

I just can't be bothered to spend 40 minutes writing a post trying to justify my own opinion on a subjective matter that isn't reallt that important mate.

especially if it ivolves engaging arguments such as "YOu can define what makes somthing cool".

well... so can everyone else.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:26 pm

Of course its subjective, but at least im trying to discuss it. im trying my best to try and answer the questions you put to me in your previous post.

if you didnt want me to answer them, then you should have said. I was trying to be polite in taking up what you left me with.

aaaa i just laughed out loud. BF and Impy argue again...

Look, I find the Orignal SW script more exciting, more fun, more witty even. certain lines send chills down my spine, now sure I understand it can be nostalgia that does that too. but LoTR whilst a great film, and dont get me wrong, I think it is. It doesnt do that 'thing' for me.

if you had to take a set of films to a desert island discs style place. it would be SW for me.

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:54 pm

“But, what about DEMOCRACY”?

That’s got to be the silliest anf funniest line at the worst moment of almost anything, ever, save almost anything else said in the new Star Wars films.

You have to wonder what they clipped out of the script in order to leave stuff in this bad.

Oh and that bit where Anakin’s sweet-talking Padme:

“I love you like some sand falling through my fingers but I’m a Jedi and I’m confused but you’re my dream and I wake in the night and I see you but I’m screaming because I feel so violent and this rage takes me but I love you like I’ve never loved a cardboard actress before but I’m confused and that dress you’re wearing makes me want to play a Prince song and now I can’t think straight because you’re looking at me like that but I don’t know and I’m a Jedi and I can’t do something and now I’m understand every Linkin Park track because this darkness is taking me and there is nothing else but my soul and your soul and…”

He’s smooth isn’t he?

I really love that Democracy line though, it’s so ******* bad.

Memorable lines in LOTR:

“They have a cave troll”

Gandalf’s stirring speech to Pippin that death will probably be quite fun really.

That’s about it I think. Star Wars is more colourful, and I remember thinking how great Episode I was when I went to see it in the Cinema, everything up to the point where they meet Jar Jar Binks was grand. Then the bit where Liam Neeson and Obi Wan fight Darth Maul. Everything in between was tosh apart from Neeson using a Phillips Ladyshave upside down as a communication device.

Star Wars is like loads of nice junk food, which starts to make you feel ill when you get to the new trilogy, like when you really can’t stomach any more chocolate.

LOTR is like a proper meal, which is never as lively as junk food, but its solid fare. However, it also becomes too much after a few hours.

But the Mouth of Sauron is amazing. Better than any Star Wars character.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:25 pm

Quotable dialogue does not a good script make.

- Coherent plotting
- Articulation of key points in a manner that doesn't become trite
- Continuity
- Properly paced scenes
- Decent act breaks
- Grasp of character

Those things make a good script. Or something.

Good dialogue makes a good soundbite. Little Britain has memorable dialogue. Resulting in every ****** in the country knowing what somebody's on about whenever they go "I want that wun!" thinking it's funny. Doesn't change the fact that it's the same joke over and over.

Memorable dialogue doesn't change the fact that I lost the will to live halfway through Wedding Crashers because the pacing was crap.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:43 pm

I think we need a poll.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:43 pm

I dont remember that many lines from LOTR (allthough there are a few, like Precious) because I was busy being "emotional" (or whatever you call it).

IE; I find the LOTR movies alot more emotional than the SW movies.
Thus they arent as "Arnie-cool" and I wont remember the cool lines.

(this maybe sounds more harsh than it is).

Post by **Best First** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:38 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: aaaa i just laughed out loud. BF and Impy argue again...

yeah, must piss you off that i am always right tho.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:07 am

Best First wrote:
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: aaaa i just laughed out loud. BF and Impy argue again...

yeah, must piss you off that i am always right tho.

No I worry you get pissed of that im always right

Post by **Best First** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:18 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
Best First wrote:
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: aaaa i just laughed out loud. BF and Impy argue again...

yeah, must piss you off that i am always right tho.
No I worry you get pissed of that im always right

only that you think you are...

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:33 am

You guys are arguing in two topics at once. It has a beautiful syncronicity.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:41 am

Batman should've been summoned to the council of elrond.
Agent Smith "Soo... who's gonna take care of the ring?"
*Everybody stares at The Batman*
Batman "I'll take it *puts ring in utility belt*"

Nobody ever sees the ring again

</End of movie>

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:07 am

Auntie Slag wrote:cardboard actress.

She's actually great. Check Leon, Garden State, Closer.

I think the only actor to come out of the new SW trilogy unscathed was Christopher Lee.

There's only so much you can do with ****.