Interesting Conversation I had Today...religion related

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:58 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Karl Lynch wrote:What's the point in existing if all things will come to dust and dust only, save only to procreate so your genes don't die? If what I am doesn't have some more relevance than knocking some poor girl up then it's a pretty sad existence imo.
The point is that your genes made it this far: you're alive. Congratulations. The point of the whole thing is to survive, to be alive. And as far as I'm concerned, that's it. You are alive, you have a short time to enjoy your existence, then you die. Knocking up some poor girl (aw...) only allows your offspring to enjoy the same. I never said that reproduction is the sole purpose of life.

Karl Lynch wrote:Laugh, drink, have fun- not really much purpose if everything I love will eventually not only be taken from me but will utterly cease to be; I'd rather get it over with now and save the heartache, considering you end up in exactly the same way at the end of it. Whether one lives heartily or dies sadly you're still utterly destroyed, why not save the nonsense of living with all its set-backs and pains if all the good things you love and believe make it worthwhile are in fact as entirely meaningless as yourself?
Because we only have ourselves to relate these experiences to: if I am meaningless then so is chocolate ice cream, Optimus Prime and sex while wearing women's clothing. Some people never get the chance to enjoy these things, they die lonely and miserable after scratching a living from the soil. Usually accepting it as their lot in life because that's what they have been told their god expects of them.
Fun is only fun because we experience it. Without us there would be no fun, so we may as well make the most of it. And yes, in the end everyone dies and everything is destroyed. So it goes.

Karl Lynch wrote:For the record being bad doesn't equal being disabled in any future life unless you go along with people like Glenn Hoddle. Kharma's a really difficult idea and varies from one philosophy to another- the general idea is that your 'actions' are neither good nor bad, but they have consequences and how the consequences reflect on you determines, amongst other things, how you will be reincarnated. Not afaik whether you will be crippled, mentally handicapped etc. but to do with whether or not you're 'kharmic potential' will come back as a human. Kharma is a philosophised extension of cause-and-effect imo (e.g. you're mean to someone, some time later you need help and said person is mean to you).
I know the Hoddle theory doesn't hold water, but what about those people who believe in a benevolent God? Are conjoined twins His idea of a joke, or something?

No idea about the benevolent God- why a God who is all loving and all powerful can't make everyone happy and preserve freewill I don't understand (I appreciate it's having your cake and eating it, but he's all-powerful so by definition he can have his cake and eat it).

You seem to agree with me about the emptiness of life without any sort of purpose/afterlife. I like to think that I will come back in some form after death, I also like the Pagan/Wiccan idea that the people you truly love you meet again and again in different loves.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:17 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:You seem to agree with me about the emptiness of life without any sort of purpose/afterlife. I like to think that I will come back in some form after death, I also like the Pagan/Wiccan idea that the people you truly love you meet again and again in different loves.

It's a nice idea for sure, but again, it seems like wishful thinking

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:24 pm

Life isnt empty, its life. death is whats empty, and it doesnt matter because im dead.

the dead know only 1 thing, that it is better to be alive.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:25 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Karl Lynch wrote:You seem to agree with me about the emptiness of life without any sort of purpose/afterlife. I like to think that I will come back in some form after death, I also like the Pagan/Wiccan idea that the people you truly love you meet again and again in different loves.
It's a nice idea for sure, but again, it seems like wishful thinking

As long as biologists and everyone else draw a blank to explain humanity I have hope that people are something more

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:36 pm

Karl Lynch wrote: As long as biologists and everyone else draw a blank to explain humanity I have hope that people are something more

I dont get that. last time i checked

dead = dead

If a single cell organism 'dies' we dont assume it gos to the afterlife. so why, am i any differemnt. what because I have an imagination?

when did this happen, mankinf kept evolving and one day, at the year -18227372 and 3 days + 5 secs, mans brain had a thought. and from there on in we all go to heaven or get re-incarnated.

bah im no more special then plant, dead = dead.

It doesnt worry me at all.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:45 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
Karl Lynch wrote: As long as biologists and everyone else draw a blank to explain humanity I have hope that people are something more
I dont get that. last time i checked

dead = dead

If a single cell organism 'dies' we dont assume it gos to the afterlife. so why, am i any differemnt. what because I have an imagination?

when did this happen, mankinf kept evolving and one day, at the year -18227372 and 3 days + 5 secs, mans brain had a thought. and from there on in we all go to heaven or get re-incarnated.

bah im no more special then plant, dead = dead.

It doesnt worry me at all.

Who ever said plants/animals don't have some energy which carries over into something else? I don't see any reason they shouldn't.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:52 pm

and I dont see any reason why they should?

simpler if things just die - and to be honest I think nature just kills things in a giant recyling bin. all this energy and stuff to me is wishfull thinking.

Anyhows it cant be proved either way. if your happy with your idea then cool, im happy with mine so I guess everyone is happy.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:00 pm

Death is a very strange thing. I think that they might one day experimentally determine what happens after, the 'suck-it-and-see' scenario doesn't appeal to me much.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:49 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:Who ever said plants/animals don't have some energy which carries over into something else?

I like to think they have matter that carries over into everything else. All organic matter gets recyled into other organic matter eventually. We're all made of the same stuff, after all. To me that's far more "magical" and fascinating than some hidden energy that we can't explain and may not even exist, just as I find evolution to be a far more incredible explanation than "God did it".

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:59 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Karl Lynch wrote:Who ever said plants/animals don't have some energy which carries over into something else?
I like to think they have matter that carries over into everything else. All organic matter gets recyled into other organic matter eventually. We're all made of the same stuff, after all. To me that's far more "magical" and fascinating than some hidden energy that we can't explain and may not even exist, just as I find evolution to be a far more incredible explanation than "God did it".

yup

For me its all there in front of my face, science cant explain things perfectly yet, but its getting there.
And I find that very interesting.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:35 pm

As I said, I see no reason science shouldn't find and explain something more to death than just an end, I don't see that cheapening anything. An empty end is also a decided possibility, but I find my whole existence being reduced to nought with such an eventuality and that's a notion too distressing to process fully.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:01 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:I find my whole existence being reduced to nought with such an eventuality and that's a notion too distressing to process fully.

It took me awhile too. Then it dawned on me that perhaps I should enjoy my life since it's all I've got.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:07 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Karl Lynch wrote:Who ever said plants/animals don't have some energy which carries over into something else?
I like to think they have matter that carries over into everything else. All organic matter gets recyled into other organic matter eventually. We're all made of the same stuff, after all. To me that's far more "magical" and fascinating than some hidden energy that we can't explain and may not even exist, just as I find evolution to be a far more incredible explanation than "God did it".

Go one further, EmVee. We're all made of stars.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:43 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: it doesnt matter because im dead.

So far in this thread you've been the new Messiah, talking with God, dead, and by your own reasoning, insane.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:02 am

sprunkner wrote:
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: it doesnt matter because im dead.

So far in this thread you've been the new Messiah, talking with God, dead, and by your own reasoning, insane.

just like Jesus!

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:43 am

Rebis wrote:Go one further, EmVee. We're all made of stars.

Dammit, I was getting to that.

But yeah, stardust, or something. Works for me, anyway.

And I offer the following advice to anyone who thinks we really have a soul*: try eating a few magic mushrooms. Or take some marijuana. Or drink beer, or take cocaine. 'Cause it's amazing how a few plant-based chemicals can totally change the way you see the world, and change the person you are. And once you realise that "you" is totally dependent on a few chemical reactions firing inside your grey matter then you start to realise that "you" is atually what happens inside that grey matter. There isn't a separate "you" that exists outside of your body - "you" are your brain.

Obviously I'm not advocating taking drugs. Well, I am but only in an experimental way. If you start taking them regularly you might end up a cynical old atheist like me

*obviously if your religious beliefs contradict the following, then don't.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:31 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Rebis wrote:Go one further, EmVee. We're all made of stars.
Dammit, I was getting to that.

But yeah, stardust, or something. Works for me, anyway.

And I offer the following advice to anyone who thinks we really have a soul*: try eating a few magic mushrooms. Or take some marijuana. Or drink beer, or take cocaine. 'Cause it's amazing how a few plant-based chemicals can totally change the way you see the world, and change the person you are. And once you realise that "you" is totally dependent on a few chemical reactions firing inside your grey matter then you start to realise that "you" is atually what happens inside that grey matter. There isn't a separate "you" that exists outside of your body - "you" are your brain.

Obviously I'm not advocating taking drugs. Well, I am but only in an experimental way. If you start taking them regularly you might end up a cynical old atheist like me

*obviously if your religious beliefs contradict the following, then don't.

Surely that is just demonstrating that if we have something other to our consciousness than currently understood, then it and its input/output in our bodies can be affected/filtered by external factors? Same way when you grow up your attitudes and views change and if something drastic or tragic happens in your life your views and outlooks change or when you get drunk you tend to stumble about a bit. Who said that some form of existence after death meant that our minds could never be changed or that substance use/abuse affects how our bodies behave?

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:23 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Rebis wrote:Go one further, EmVee. We're all made of stars.
Dammit, I was getting to that.

But yeah, stardust, or something. Works for me, anyway.

And I offer the following advice to anyone who thinks we really have a soul*: try eating a few magic mushrooms. Or take some marijuana. Or drink beer, or take cocaine. 'Cause it's amazing how a few plant-based chemicals can totally change the way you see the world, and change the person you are. And once you realise that "you" is totally dependent on a few chemical reactions firing inside your grey matter then you start to realise that "you" is atually what happens inside that grey matter. There isn't a separate "you" that exists outside of your body - "you" are your brain.

Obviously I'm not advocating taking drugs. Well, I am but only in an experimental way. If you start taking them regularly you might end up a cynical old atheist like me

*obviously if your religious beliefs contradict the following, then don't.

A pretty elaborated thought for a

naked ape

as you named yourself and all of us.