anybody else find this forum to be too...."clean"?

inane_nobody · Post by **inane_nobody** » Tue May 17, 2005 5:10 am

first off all:

i'm not making this into a first amendment thing. transfans has to right to run this private forum as they see fit.

second:

i never even read the "buttfire" thing

my main complaint was that best first insulted me without giving me a chance to explain my position(read the thread again if you have to). i was merely saying that sometimes the p.c. police get out of hand. are we really so immature that we can't distguingish a purely comical joke from deep seeded bigotry?

ah f*** it. this board doesn't even let you say f***. let's just watch as our minds grow smaller. maybe someday you'll get it, until then all i can say is:

"i know. but i do not approve. and i am not resigned."

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue May 17, 2005 5:10 am

Hate to agree with the establishment, but according to the original post in this thread, it's mostly about Buttfire according to you. You do also mention posting porn, although I don't really think that was the main thrust of your argument, no pun intended. Best didn't even really insult you.

UNLESS.....

You're talking about the original Buttfire thread, where you said taking down the pics was way too PC and Best said apologies to all fans of casual bigotry. In this case, I'd say you at least have a point that Best called you a bigot and then locked the thread. Which, I'd guess, is why you started up a thread complaining about the censorship here (which has since presumably claimed the board life of Eline, which is already a price waaay to heavy to bear).

But, if we're to look at your words in your original post:

inane_nobody wrote:i never even read the "buttfire" thing
my main complaint was that best first insulted me without giving me a chance to explain my position(read the thread again if you have to).

I don't really get how you can have never read the buttfire thing, but yet complain about events that happen in the exact same thread.

And on a completly different note:

Denyer wrote:You might want to select the Safe For Work board style in your Profile options, then.

boooorinnngggg!!!!

Seriously though, thx for the tip.

inane_nobody · Post by **inane_nobody** » Tue May 17, 2005 5:43 am

well, maybe you should read it again? whatever. apparently, i'm wrong on claiming that intelligent people can decide what's offensive on thier own witout being guided by the language police.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Tue May 17, 2005 7:20 am

Best First wrote:Not to mention that if you think Transfans is the kind of site to celebrate the movie by having a 'flashy new skin' you really are in the wrong place - this isn't ****ing Siebertron.

Cheeky bastard

I luvs this place.
Still not enough bukkake, mind.

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 17, 2005 9:34 am

inane_nobody wrote:well, maybe you should read it again? whatever. apparently, i'm wrong on claiming that intelligent people can decide what's offensive on thier own witout being guided by the language police.

maybe you are just wrong in claiming to be an intelligent person seeing as you don’t actually seem capable of constructing a coherent point.

Firstly you claim a lot of us are “afraid to be faced with "obscenities" or anything "offensive".” – a statement you seem to make off the back of one person locking a topic, with little or no awareness of much of the rest of the board.

You also state that no one could be offended by a link that you later say you have not read.

Despite not having read the link you admonish the locking of the topic and claim that people should grow up and expand their minds… in fact they should demand to be offended…

…but you have already claimed that the link (that you never read) is not offensive.

So people should grow up and not be offended but should seek to be offended. I see. Eminently coherent.

Also notable - you seem to associate cheap puerile “humour” and swearing with expanding your mind and growing up, despite the fact this makes little sense. The ability to express oneself freely does not equate to expanded consciousness or maturity.

Furthermore you seem to equate being offensive with ‘expanding your mind’ – again, at a basic level this makes no sense. Whilst it might be true that it is important for society to challenge concepts that are often deemed taboo in order to really understand issues (for example attempting to discuss paedophilia without resorting to hysteria) be it through humour or sensible debate, it is not true that a gang of eight year olds screaming “**** you you ****ing old ****” at an old man, whilst offensive, is in any way a mark of maturity or expanded consciousness.

You then state that you are not going to make this into some ‘first amendment thing’ but then complain that you cannot say what you want or decide for yourself what is offensive and make references to the “language police” (booga booga!). So apparently this is not about freedom of speech but you want freedom of speech. Again, most coherent.

Moving on, two pages after your initial post which claims that most people here are afraid of anything offensive (despite much evidence to back this up) you then claim that your actual complaint is that one person was rude to you without giving you the chance to explain yourself, despite the fact that this is referenced nowhere in the your first two posts.

Now here I’m a little bit confused, seeing as you seem to equate maturity and expanding your mind with offensiveness, and encourage people to actively seek to be offended, your complaint is that someone has offended you. By your value system shouldn’t you be saying thank you?

As for not ‘giving you a chance to explain yourself’, why should I? You now state you didn’t even read the link in question but still felt compelled to make some dickhead ‘PC’ comment (a cheap replacement for an actual argument if ever there was one) at the deleting of the link. If you had wanted to make a coherent and insightful point you could have made it on your initial post, but you did not. So are you asking for the right to be a knob and then justify yourself? If so I suggest setting up a website…

Furthermore, with your advocating of all things offensive as a means to expanded consciousness, surely you are fan of casual bigotry? So how was it even an insult? Or are there in fact some things which you do consider taboo? Do you want freedom for people to be offensive without recourse or not?

Finally you try and justify your (lack of) point with:

“i was merely saying that sometimes the p.c. police get out of hand. are we really so immature that we can't distinguish a purely comical joke from deep seeded bigotry”

Apparently i insulted you but you saying that I am out of hand in the way that I moderate My website is perfectly polite. So, I am free to run my private forum as I see fit but I am also out of hand. Once more the coherence of your point shines through.

In addition I have already stated that my primary concern was that the cheap use of ‘gay’ had an air of precedent setting and chose to nip it in the bud. I note you have ignored that. Or would you like the precedent to be set that ‘gay’ can be used as an insult more here? I assume from the tone of the above you are against bigotry? Even though you have given a blanket thumbs up to being offensive?

So as you can see, what you are saying actually makes… no sense. So really, there is nothing to ‘get’.

And to top it all off you state that not being able to use the word ****, a term that in modern society is generally used as a substitute for numerous words which remain readily available to the more erudite when **** is not an option, will cause our minds to get smaller. This despite trying to come off clever at the start by using a quote that invokes the notion of a language that gets smaller every year. Hilarious.

Still, at least all this isn’t all wrapped up in a rather cringe worthy martyr complex. What? Oh.

To conclude… stop talking s***. If you have an issue with a moderating decision, PM the mod insetad of making jerkoff comments in the topic (which, as you may now have spotted, will get the response it warrants), if you want to have a serious debate about something, use your alleged maturity and expanded conciseness and think before you type.

____________________________
SKIP THE REST AND JUST READ THIS BIT IF YOU LIKE

For everyone else i have had a PM from one member stating that they find that the amount of sexual content, references to masturbation and swearing has created what they feel is a somewhat threatening environment which they no longer feel happy posting in.

Whilst i don't really personally have an issue with any of this stuff at an i, and no real desire to censor it (despite being a fully signed up member of the sinister PC Police, natch) i can see what is being said, ceratinly in terms of volume, and especially with regard to the sexual content, which has a distinctly male slant (something i have probably been a bit less vigilant if i am honest given my faorly recent single status).

So... i'm not going to actually do anythig about it right now, other than suggest that those of you who value this community might want to consider the impact some of these topics might have on the atmosphere here, which i think previously a number of us have prided ourselves on being friendly to people from all backgrounds, genders and orientations, with the subtle caveat of 'as long as they are not wankers'.

Post by **Kaylee** » Tue May 17, 2005 9:51 am

I empathise with the sender of the PM very much. I must say I also find the tone of some of the discussions tending to err on the pub-lad end of the spectrum.

I'm not sure if I find it threatening, though when I do come across such a topic or find a topic turning into such an event I stop reading it- I just feel utterly out of place, out of my element and like its something I've really got no part in (it tends to have a very hetero-male-slant i feel, I also don't tend to do crudity and do find some of whats said rather offensive to the eyes, but thats entirely a personal thing). I guess that's mainly because I don't understand most of what's said.

Not sure... I suppose I just find the volume of crudity a little high sometimes. Like I said tho I just don't read such posts. It sometimes feels like GD is either a sharp intellectual debate or a lad's magazine, with nothing in the middle.

So in conclusion, no point or meaningful contribution really. Just letting the person know that they're not by themselves by any stretch ^_^

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 17, 2005 10:09 am

i must admit i find myself passing over a greater number of topics these days as well.

Post by **Denyer** » Tue May 17, 2005 12:51 pm

Best First wrote:So people should grow up and not be offended but should seek to be offended. I see.

"We don't demand solid facts! What we demand is a total absence of solid facts. I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel!"

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Tue May 17, 2005 2:10 pm

I like the site. I even like the anti-religion arguments, despite the fact that I am religious. I think people are mostly openminded, (except certain persons I will possibly name named Ultimate Weapon) and friendly. It's the reason why I stayed on for a year. I only signed up here to find a copy of Alignment.

Sometimes, I'll agree, the humor gets a little raunchy. Most of us who grew up male and hetero and spent a lot of time in locker rooms find that funny. But I guess we, and I mean I, and certain persons I will possibly name named everyone else, should watch our pottymouths.

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 17, 2005 2:22 pm

i love the notion hetro guys spend lots of time growing up in locker rooms...

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue May 17, 2005 3:45 pm

That's really horrible for the PMer, and I empathize totally.

But honestly, skimming GD real quick, I don't see much that's that offensive, aside from language usage here and there, and Autobloke's poll, which still haunts my dreams.

But I HAVE noticed more cussing, and more talk of sex, so I can at least understand where he/she's coming from. Is this something that's happened recently, do you feel, or do you think it's the type of thing that just comes and goes on the board?

Regardless, as I've said before, I think that if you don't like a thread, it would really be better if you don't click on it than complain that the thread shouldn't be there because you don't like it. Not saying that the PMer in question should do this, just making a point. For example, because I'm an ignorant no good Yankee, I don't care to read that much about football. So when I see topics about Arsenal, or the selling of Man U, or horrible defenders, I just skip by.

Perhaps we COULD create some warning or advisory at the forum index point (or make a warning mandatory in the topic post), so you'll know what you'll want to avoid.

Sexual matter is an interesting issue. Being a hetero male, I don't really see a problem with threads about or pandering to male heterosexuality. Being an open minded individual, I wouldn't have a problem with threads about or pandering to female heterosexuality or gays and lesbians. However, I would bet that desire rather than ability is what is stopping our female, gay, and lesbian friends from posting things.

Like sprunkner, I too have chosen to stay here mainly because of the open mindedness, the religious debates, the long, long threads of support whenever someone needs people to talk to, and the fact that I believe that if most of you had a chance, you'd tell George Bush what a sodding wanker he is.

And did I mention how I get to use exciting words such as "sodding wanker", "pants", and "bollocks"?

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 17, 2005 4:02 pm

i think the notion of 'warnings' being acceptable would just be an open invitation for people to act like children to be honest - i can't see any positive benefit.

As for ignoring football topics i don't think not being interested in something is really a relevant parrallel to finding some topics and their content create a certain atmosphere you do not feel comfortable in

you also have to bear in mind that i think certain things become self perpetucating to some extent.

i think there has been something of a shift on this front.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue May 17, 2005 4:55 pm

inane_nobody, I'm not offended by obscenity. I love obscenity. There's just a time and a place for it, and that place is not here. The time we have yet to fix, but I'm doing some serious research into it.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue May 17, 2005 7:52 pm

Best First wrote:i think the notion of 'warnings' being acceptable would just be an open invitation for people to act like children to be honest - i can't see any positive benefit.

That's a totally understandable and logical opinion and/or course of action

As for ignoring football topics i don't think not being interested in something is really a relevant parrallel to finding some topics and their content create a certain atmosphere you do not feel comfortable in

Is it an equal analogy? No. But it is relevant? Certainly. More to the point, looking down on the first page of GD, I don't really see anything from the topic list that would create a certain atmosphere one would not feel comfotable in, aside from snarl's "f*** s***" and Obflur's use of God's name in vain.
I'm just saying, if I have a TV and I don't like nude women, I'm not going to put my TV on the Playboy Channel and then complain to the FCC. I'm just not going to watch that particular channel.
If some individual was offended or hurt by the debates over Nazism everyone had with UW a while back, I would have to think that the most logical thing to do is to stop reading the thread and ignore the conversation.
It just sounds like you're describing this atmosphere where every other topic is about saying s*** or shagging or misogny/racism/sexism, and that's not the way I feel, that's not what I see on this site, and that's not the way people ARE on this site.

you also have to bear in mind that i think certain things become self perpetucating to some extent.

i think there has been something of a shift on this front.

To what front do you speak of? The front of your concept of self perpetuation, the front of your limits of censorship, or something else? Sorry, I'm not quite clear.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Tue May 17, 2005 9:17 pm

Great orbs of infinite #FFFFFF light! This thread is growing faster than a sailors scrotum in a pub owned and 'manned' by nothing but 18-year old female chavs!

Best First wrote: as for the swearing i think the filter probably prevents things from descending into a bit of a swear fest (ceratin posters who i love to bits (which would be a good reason not to mimic them no matter how upset you are with your own personality...) aside) which would tend towards a less friendly environment. We display a reasonable degree of flexibility over this anyway.

On top of that i love the arguement 'we are grown up, we should be allöwoed to swear more'.

Huh? Are you quoting me? Cause I see no quote-tags yet.

As for the look of the site... if you don't like it piss off somewhere you do i reckon. I love the look of the site - i can post from work without some piss poor guady colour scheme screaming to my boss that i am on the internet.

Still see no quote-tags, lucky for you that I lurk this board to no end, otherwise your message might not have reached me, it's a huge arse-thread this. The boss-thing is a valid point tho. But if the skin wouldn't be set as standard, wich is only logical, the problem wouldn't come up, now would it? Oh well, other tf-sites will make shiny new suites for the movie, so no pressure.

Not to mention that if you think Transfans is the kind of site to celebrate the movie by having a 'flashy new skin' you really are in the wrong place - this isn't ****ing Siebertron.

And long may it continue.

The world needs a spectrum...I'll come back with more once I've finished taking my psychotropic drugs and quit lurking Seibertron for news.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Wed May 18, 2005 1:15 am

Shanti418 wrote:Autobloke's poll, which still haunts my dreams.

Hmm... namechecked. That can't be good.

I hope none of this is my fault, although I do admit to being rather rude the last few days (reading back over my posts) - I've been having a crappy week and my mind hasn't been too level.
If this IS about me, then apologies to all. If it isn't just me, then I'll still say sorry - 'cos it sucks that someone felt they needed to leave the board 'cos of its content.

Okay, best behaviour from now on, people...

Post by **Best First** » Wed May 18, 2005 8:42 am

The world needs a spectrum...

and in terms of CPU... you are that Spectrum.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed May 18, 2005 3:08 pm

Best First wrote:and in terms of CPU... you are that Spectrum.

Central Processing Unit? Cerebral Pares Understanding?? You've lost me here...

Anyways, I've got nothing more to add to the debate, thanks for a cool topic inane_nobody, this was obviously something that needed adressing, although it just doesn't seem to be able to be solved.. where is the balance? Who knows.

Autobloke wrote:If this IS about me, then apologies to all. If it isn't just me, then I'll still say sorry - 'cos it sucks that someone felt they needed to leave the board 'cos of its content.

I atleast don't have a problem with you. EmmVee's photoshopped pic of 'himself' was far dirtier and upsetting (think guys in a pub, indeed) than anything I've seen you post.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed May 18, 2005 5:06 pm

Best First wrote:
The world needs a spectrum...
and in terms of CPU... you are that Spectrum.

16, 48 or 128 ?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed May 18, 2005 5:35 pm

Predabot wrote:...EmmVee's photoshopped pic of 'himself' was far dirtier and upsetting (think guys in a pub, indeed) than anything I've seen you post.

It's reassuring to know that my head on a fat guy's body still has the power to shock

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed May 18, 2005 5:44 pm

It looked like a naked, fat, woman to me...

Hmpf, looks like your scheme of messing with the minds of the easily manipulated on this board succeded!

{takes attention-enhancer drug}

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed May 18, 2005 6:21 pm

Predabot wrote:It looked like a naked, fat, woman to me...

Hmpf, looks like your scheme of messing with the minds of the easily manipulated on this board succeded!

*waves hand*

These are not the man-boobs you are looking for.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed May 18, 2005 7:30 pm

Autobloke wrote:
Shanti418 wrote:Autobloke's poll, which still haunts my dreams.
Hmm... namechecked. That can't be good.
I hope none of this is my fault, although I do admit to being rather rude the last few days (reading back over my posts) - I've been having a crappy week and my mind hasn't been too level.
If this IS about me, then apologies to all. If it isn't just me, then I'll still say sorry - 'cos it sucks that someone felt they needed to leave the board 'cos of its content.

Okay, best behaviour from now on, people...

I didn't mean to offend, and you certainly didn't offend me. I was simply saying that I personally found women sticking their poo into toilet paper rolls and then sticking them in their handbags to be quite disturbing. But not offensive.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Wed May 18, 2005 7:47 pm

There's that poop again...

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 pm

Shanti418 wrote:I didn't mean to offend, and you certainly didn't offend me. I was simply saying that I personally found women sticking their poo into toilet paper rolls and then sticking them in their handbags to be quite disturbing. But not offensive.

I really don't understand that at all...if a poo is large enough to be toilet-blocking, how the hell is it going to fit inside a toilet roll tube? Surely it's going to stick out of the sides....

I find the whole thing completely bogus to tell you the truth.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:40 am

It's not that it's actually blocking, it's just that its density and structural integrity is great enough so that it doesn't break in two by the sucking effect of the flush.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:54 am

scat play! TF.net sinks to new lows !

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu May 19, 2005 2:23 am

It's not that it's a low, the whole notion is ridiculous. You could no more fit a poo like that inside a toilet roll tube than you could fit Herman Munster in a waste paper basket. If this even happened at all, it probably happened to someone, like, somewhere once, who was a friend of a friend.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Thu May 19, 2005 4:31 am

That's what I thought too, but when I asked Autobloke:

Shanti418 wrote:For the love of everything that is good and hygenic, women wouldn't really fish out their turds and hide them in their handbags because they're afraid of their size, would they?

Autobloke wrote: This is ALL based on truth.
It has happened at least FOUR times to three of my female friends (once for two of them, and twice to ONE poor unfortunate. I told her to eat more fibre).
I even had to help one of them flush a potential horror. I shall however NEVER speak of the event again - so don't ask.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:14 pm

Now that I'm back...
I am of course going by what these young ladies told me, but I have no reason to doubt them as who the hell would use this version of events as a lie? I think though that there was a certain amount of 'prodding' to make things fit in the tube. I did mention that if they were prepared to mush the log into a tube, why not just mush it in the bog bowl so it would flush? There were blank faces for a second, and then expressions that kinda said 'now why didn't that occur to me at the time?'.
I think it was just a girl thing.
As for the thing I shall never mention: I shall never tell...