Dr Who episodes!

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Thu May 05, 2005 5:36 pm

I thought the episode on Saturday was quality. Never thought id feel sorry for a Dalek.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:00 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:One thing about Five Doctors.... It would have been nice to see Davison at least hug her or something, since the last we'd seen he'd left her on Earth a long time ago (she's aged for a start).

I'm surprised the 'family' idea hasn't been addressed, but I suppose fans prefer mystery?

Depends what you mean by addressed. If you count Lungbarrow, then the Doctor's family has very definitely been addressed, though there's plenty more that you could reveal about them.

Spoil the books if you wish! I'll probably give the audios a whirl at some point tho. I've been having such a good time and all.

Well, the spoiler about Susan being the grandaughter of a previous life (not previous regeneration) is pretty much the gist of what Lungbarrow reveals. The audios are probably my weak point in terms of Who knowledge, simply because I've been too cash-strapped to buy them until recently. Still, what I've heard so far has been reasonably good.

EDIT - you strongly reccomend Lungbarrow then? I'll take time out to read it if so.

I would strongly recommend it, but with the caveat that it is quite continuity-heavy. I recommend reading it along with the author's notes.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Fri May 06, 2005 9:18 am

Bouncelot wrote:
Legion wrote:
Bouncelot wrote: He's still from the same culture, and still got loomed the same as the rest of the planet regardless of whether he's Gallifreyan or Time Lord.
I thought it was just the Timelords that got the infertility curse, not everysingle Gallifreyian (correct me if i'm wrong, but the normal Gallifreyan can't regenerate and what not, only the TimeLord 'Elite')?
Well, the curse happened before any of them became Time Lords - as seen in Marc Platt's NA Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible, so you'd assume that it affects all Gallifreyans, not just those who are also Time Lords.

Ah very good point... it's been years since i've read that one...
however, one factor we've not mentioned in this... Leela isn't Gallifreyan, maybe the curse just rendered the females infertile, not the men?

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Fri May 06, 2005 3:16 pm

Legion wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:Well, the curse happened before any of them became Time Lords - as seen in Marc Platt's NA Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible, so you'd assume that it affects all Gallifreyans, not just those who are also Time Lords.
Ah very good point... it's been years since i've read that one...
however, one factor we've not mentioned in this... Leela isn't Gallifreyan, maybe the curse just rendered the females infertile, not the men?

Quite possible. Though it's worth noting that in John Peel's Legacy of the Daleks, Susan was apparently unable to have kids with her human husband, and she was one of the last to be born before the curse took effect.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon May 09, 2005 8:55 am

Bouncelot wrote:Quite possible. Though it's worth noting that in John Peel's Legacy of the Daleks, Susan was apparently unable to have kids with her human husband, and she was one of the last to be born before the curse took effect.

I've not read Legacy actually, keep meaning to get a copy of it...

Maybe Humans/Gallifreyians aren't compatible after all (half human... my arse), or maybe David's been left firing blanks after the Dalek Invasion...

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Mon May 09, 2005 3:49 pm

Legion wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:Quite possible. Though it's worth noting that in John Peel's Legacy of the Daleks, Susan was apparently unable to have kids with her human husband, and she was one of the last to be born before the curse took effect.
I've not read Legacy actually, keep meaning to get a copy of it...

I'd advise against it.

Maybe Humans/Gallifreyians aren't compatible after all (half human... my arse), or maybe David's been left firing blanks after the Dalek Invasion...

Or your theory about only males being fertile is right.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 09, 2005 6:22 pm

Bouncelot wrote:
Maybe Humans/Gallifreyians aren't compatible after all (half human... my arse), or maybe David's been left firing blanks after the Dalek Invasion...

Or your theory about only males being fertile is right.

Or maybe, as the Doc said he was half-human on his mother's side, human-gallifreyan hybrids are only possible when using a gallifreyan male and human female.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:38 pm

Rebis wrote:Doc said he was half-human on his mother's side,

NNNNNNNNOoooooooooooooooooo................

*sobs*

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:09 am

Latest query:

Do we know how long each Doctor lived for?

I'm guessing Doctors 2 to 6 relatively not long, 7 for quite awhile and 8 I have no idea?

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue May 10, 2005 11:30 am

spiderfrommars wrote:Latest query:

Do we know how long each Doctor lived for?

I'm guessing Doctors 2 to 6 relatively not long, 7 for quite awhile and 8 I have no idea?

Not really, we can sort of build up a rough estimate from the ages they quote as the series goes on...

In Tomb, 2nd Doc says he is something like 400 years old, 4th Doc in Pyramids says he's what, 750? That's quite a leap... especially if you consider that the 3rd Doc was exiled to earth for most of his life (although he is supposed to have started wandering 'offscreen' after 3 Docs - his final Earth-ward journey at the end of Planet of the Spiders is supposed to have last a long time in itself). The 7th Doc says he's 900 odd in Rememberance... problem is 9th Doc says he's 900 odd too in Aliens of London, which means the 7th Doc and 8th Doc didn't last very long if that is right, which can't be if you take into account the books... the 8th Doc alone ticked up a very long span in a couple of his adventures (like at least a hundred years after Ancestor Cell i think) and the 7th Doc mentioned in the NAs that he was well over a 1000 anyway...

I think Boucelot's got more indepth info (and probably more accurate than my memory) on his site.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Tue May 10, 2005 12:18 pm

OK, more detailed info on the Doctor's age coming right up:

Troughton (Doc2) said he was about 450 in Tomb of the Cybermen.
Tom Baker (Doc4) gave numerous figures for his age, but they were all within a decade or so of 750.
Colin Baker (Doc6) was 900 during the Trial season.
Sylv (Doc7) was 953 in his first story. His 1000th birthday occurred during the New Adventure Set Piece.
According to the novels, McGann was something like 1012 when he regenerated (damn, I thought I could recite all the figures, and I can't remember precisely which one this one was). At one point, he spends over 100 years on Earth, meaning that he has to be around 1200 by his last novel.

As for gaps, the Second Doctor is widely thought to have been sent on secret missions by the Time Lords between his final story and Jon Pertwee's first story (a theory called Season 6b by fans), also after Pertwee's exile was lifted, he could easily have had long solo adventures by nipping off in the TARDIS occasionally. Hence the ageing from Troughton to Tom is easily solved.

Ageing from Tom to Colin is a wee bit more rushed. There is a possible gap where Tom travels with his TIme Lady companion Romana for a long time, but it's right at the end of their time together. Peter Davison had a couple of gaps with no human companion (Time Flight-Arc of Infinify and Resurrection of the Daleks-Planet of Fire), and one of the novels (The Crystal Bucephalus) includes a 10-year side trip,

The Colin-Sylv gap is explained by solo trips between Trial and the regeneration - he takes his future companion Mel back to wherever she came from, and has some solo adventures.

Sylv's ageing in the books has to be due to side trips without his current companions, but there are a few such gaps provided.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue May 10, 2005 12:26 pm

Interesting. And it sounds as if you've either got to discount the books or assume the Ninth Doctor's lying about his age.

I thought the 7th Doctor may have lived longer (I'm thinking more in the vein of the First Doctor) because in the TV movie he states he is reaching the end of his 6th regeneration.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue May 10, 2005 2:25 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Interesting. And it sounds as if you've either got to discount the books or assume the Ninth Doctor's lying about his age.

or maybe he meant 900 years in his current regeneration, which means he's aging very well...

plus he'd be a vain bastard (from the comments he made after looking in the mirror in Rose).

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Tue May 10, 2005 5:06 pm

Legion wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:Interesting. And it sounds as if you've either got to discount the books or assume the Ninth Doctor's lying about his age.
or maybe he meant 900 years in his current regeneration, which means he's aging very well...

plus he'd be a vain bastard (from the comments he made after looking in the mirror in Rose).

Well, you've also got to discount the original TV series to fit in his stated age.

The best theory I've heard is that he's now counting from the events of the novel The Ancestor Cell, in which he destroyed Gallifrey and got amnesia. The eighth Doctor's 100+ years on Earth happens after this, so it's not implausible.

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Thu May 12, 2005 11:49 am

Hound wrote:I thought the episode on Saturday was quality. Never thought id feel sorry for a Dalek.

I still didn`t.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Thu May 12, 2005 11:56 am

Snowcat wrote:
Hound wrote:I thought the episode on Saturday was quality. Never thought id feel sorry for a Dalek.
I still didn`t.

What? Think it was quality or feel sorry for a Dalek?

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Thu May 12, 2005 11:59 am

I didn`t feel sorry for the Dalek. It`s a Dalek, for Chrissake.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Thu May 12, 2005 12:24 pm

Snowcat wrote:I didn`t feel sorry for the Dalek. It`s a Dalek, for Chrissake.

Not even the "I am a-lone in the un-i-verse..." line? that was quite sad.

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Thu May 12, 2005 12:36 pm

Legion wrote:
Snowcat wrote:I didn`t feel sorry for the Dalek. It`s a Dalek, for Chrissake.
Not even the "I am a-lone in the un-i-verse..." line? that was quite sad.

I preferred "EL-EV-ATE!"

Post by **Kaylee** » Thu May 12, 2005 12:51 pm

So do you guys suppose that really is the end of the daleks now, or if theyll be back (again) at some point or series in the future?

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Thu May 12, 2005 1:00 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:So do you guys suppose that really is the end of the daleks now, or if theyll be back (again) at some point or series in the future?

Of course they`ll be back. The only question mark over their appearance in this series was Nation`s estate getting all pissy about it. Now they`ve realised they could be in merchandising heaven now, they`ll let them be brought back.

Remember, the Doctor can travel in Time and Space. Just because the Daleks don`t exist in this era, doesn`t mean they won`t in any others.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu May 12, 2005 1:01 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:So do you guys suppose that really is the end of the daleks now, or if theyll be back (again) at some point or series in the future?

Be surprised if it's the last we'll see of them. Unless the future destruction of a race erases all of them from the past... which I'd be surprised by.

I mean, okay, so this one was hurled back in time when they all died. But why can't there be some dormant in this era already, right? Or somesuch. You get what I mean. Hopefully...

Post by **Kaylee** » Thu May 12, 2005 1:24 pm

So they'll probably just invent a reason to stumble across more daleks?

Doesn't that mean the Timelords still exist too tho? Natch only in the past... so couldn't the Doctor warn them?

Or is this getting beyond the remit of the BBC's scifi team?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu May 12, 2005 1:26 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:Doesn't that mean the Timelords still exist too tho? Natch only in the past... so couldn't the Doctor warn them?

Well, I don't see why Timelords who were in the future at the time of the ELE wouldn't have survived... but then we really don't know all the circumstances surrounding the incident...

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Thu May 12, 2005 1:45 pm

The Master if anyone will have survived. Can`t see him fighting for the Timelords somehow...

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Sat May 14, 2005 3:54 pm

I'm hearing quite a lot of speculation that the Daleks will be back in episodes 12-13 (Bad Wolf and The Parting of the Ways). I suspect that we'll find out a lot more about the war and the fate of the Time Lords then. As well as finding out what those damn repeated mentions of "bad wolf" are all about.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sat May 14, 2005 5:15 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:couldn't the Doctor warn them?

Don't you know you can't just go around altering history willy-nilly? Just see tonight's episode for proof - crappy CGI monsters will come and EAT people.
That said, if you travel back in time, then the past is the present and the future doesn't yet exist. So I suppose you could monkey about with things a bit.
But then, surely every time the Doctor 'saves the day' he could be altering events from their current correct path.

My head (and probably my balls) hurt...

Darth Aux · Post by **Darth Aux** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:15 pm

Tonights episode was filmed in the church I was Christened and Confirmed in.

The priest that previously run the church is currently in prison, he was molesting children.

I was waiting at the bus stop just beyond the filming area when they shot some of those scenes

Those black monsters were a pain, had to keep ducking for cover until the bus turned up.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:07 pm

The new series is shaping up rather nicely isn't it?

Anyway...

An Unearthly Child
I'm a bit of a Hartnell newbie, and didn't take that well to his debut. Whilst I gather his portrayal softens in later episodes, I still found it jarring that the Doctor here doesn't come across particularly as a nice man, and isn't very proactive. First episode was by far the best, though the remaining 3 had a very good atmosphere (and I liked the downbeat ending).

The Green Death
The maggots were suitably yucky, there were some good set pieces, but I just felt there was something missing: over 6 episodes the token villain and token 'monsters' didn't have much of a presence. Nice to see a thoughtful departure for a companion at the end tho.

Revenge of the Cyberman
A couple of WTF moments, but the three regulars carried this I thought, plus the Cybermen were quite effective (if a little short) - two of them wipe out scores of Vogans for instance. Liked the location filming. Everyone kept escaping capture a little too easily though. (James Bond syndrome - just kill them damnit!)

Pyramids of Mars
Really good stuff... Nice turn from Baker, SJS is probably my fave companion (she's just so sweet, and isn't a bad sniper either!) Very good villain, his face off with the Doctor one of the best scenes I've seen in the series. Liked the supporting turn from Sheard/Mr Bronson - I really felt sorry for him (though didn't the Doctor cock up by leaving him behind?)

The Face of Evil
Thought the sets were a bit drab, but found the plot genuinely mysterious and intriguing. Loved all of the Doctor/Leela scenes, and his threatening the tribe death by jellybaby. That silly bowing got on my nerves after awhile though.

Remembrance of the Daleks
Probably my fave McCoy story (Fenric close behind). Its brilliant in nearly every way. Plenty of twists, some of the best action scenes in the original series, great explosions, very intimidating and dangerous Daleks. Small complaint: the daleks have a tendency to wobble. Oh, and 80s graffiti visible in most scenes in what is meant to be a 60s period piece.

(As an aside, I saw this story in my first year at boarding school and everyone was completely gripped. Sadly, 5 mins into the next ep (was it Happiness Patrol?) the kids lost interest and Coronation Street permanently won out from then on.)

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:50 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:
The Face of Evil
Thought the sets were a bit drab, but found the plot genuinely mysterious and intriguing. Loved all of the Doctor/Leela scenes, and his threatening the tribe death by jellybaby. That silly bowing got on my nerves after awhile though.

Don't you think that when the Doc confronts the computer and the computer starts screaming with all those multicoloured Doctor faces on each massive screen, it's weirdly one of the most scary and chilling bits of the whole series?