Continuity.... where next?

Blacksword · Post by **Blacksword** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:17 am

I'd like one of two things.

a) continue G2, but make it easily accessable the same way G2 was. G2 had side references to the old continuity, and was much more enjoyable once I knew the old continuity, but was fully comprehensible as a stand alone story. Something like my Dark Horizon though good for fanboys like us would be almost totally inaccessable to new readers, non-Marvel TF:Fans, or soft fans who just think TF is cool. It would tank in no time.

However in all fairness it's been much too long since G2 so the realist in me goes for...

b) Fresh restart. A G1 comic planned as an ongoing from the start. Do an update of the arrival on Earth story and go from there. Take Marvel's Ultimate line as a model (though more on the Ultimates end of things, reconceptualize a more modern adult take on it and create fresh material based around the basic character profiles). Some revised and 'fixed' versions of old stories (aka the good bits, or good concepts... ie Budiansky's first arc, and Cybertron story and Furman's best) with mostly new material. A good mix of old and new to keep the harcore fans happy and get new readers. Keep it mature and have a new Hasbro-line related comic for youth (maybe continue Armada/Energon/Cybertron, but there'll be a big gap and Hasbro probably will want Cybertron on asap, so it's probably not realistic). Have a decent mix of Earth stories with grittier "back on Cybertron" stuff. Have slightly lighter Earth stories for the soft fans and the cartoon crowd and the darker Cybertron stories for the comic fans. This in my opinion is the best way to make a viable yet decent G1 comic.

DarkConvoy · Post by **DarkConvoy** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:57 pm

It would be nice to see a new comic that explains everything from Day one from the bigbang that created uni and primus to the 13 till Cybertron

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:16 pm

That'd be one hell of a big-assed book! It would have to be in sections so that a writer had the option to insert a new story anywhere in the continuity, like those partwork magazines that go into folders (that's what we need - a factfile magazine!). Otherwise it would have to be flashbacks (or forwards), which just confuse people. Also, we'd not get to the 1984 era for, like, hundreds (or thousands) of issues. No magazine would ever last that long in this day and age.
Good idea though: the TF Super Continuity.

Manchester Devil · Post by **Manchester Devil** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:14 am

A new continuality.

As much as we love the Marvel series (Edge of Extinction owns your worthless souls), that is not going to happen again in a long while at all bar a miracle of sorts because the "EVERYTHING MUST BE LIKE THE G1 CARTOON BECAUSE WE BLOODY SAID SO" will cry because it takes too much thinking.

That said, no Brad Mick and his sidekick Adam Paytk ripping off Transformers the cartoon and Movie either. Just a series that retains the best bits of the Marvel comic and takes it to a new level. A Neo-Marvel comic if you will, with Simon Furman writing the plots and the fab four of Don Figueroa, Geoff Senior, Lee Sullivan and Andy Wildman.

Take that Pat Lee!

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:20 am

I think the thing about the way DW was going was this: Some people (myself included) liked it okay and were pumped up about where it was going right when it ended. However, it still was the only thing out there. Now that it's gone, it's not good enough to actually want to go back to.

In a perfect world, Marvel continuity.

Here's a thought that I always liked: Throw away everything and reimagine the beginnings of Civil War. Like War Within, but with more creative space. Megatron could take over the council a la Emperor Palapatine.
Or Autobots could be seriously oppressed and enslaven, like in WW3, except at the very beginning. One of the dynamics in Transformers that I like is the Decepticons as these warriors, built to destroy, built to fight, and the Autobots, a bunch of guys who were basically like you and I working no name jobs who were forced into a war, and successfully fended off the Decepticons skill with valor and determination. They haven't been fighting for 3 million years.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:11 am

But all done with hole-punched comicbooks so that they can be inserted into a folder, otherwise we'd be stuck with early Cybertron stories for ages. At least that way we can get some 1984 stuff up and running (Hmm... do the TFs even HAVE to end up on Earth? Plus point: No humans!).
The later stories could be teasers - we know that something has happened, but it's the how and why that would be intriguing. Then we'd get an earlier story to slot in that explains it all. You can't tell me that the Star Wars suffers by starting at Episode 4 - we all wanted to know the backstory to the ST universe (even if it turned out to be two (so far) dodgy movies). Jumping back and forth, but in self contained stories would at least keep things fresh, and seeing two issues slowly closing the gap between each other via insert stories could be interesting - I don't think it's ever really happened in comics before.
Sorry, but I'm just going to bang on about the partwork idea for as long as I can - I think it may work and give the comic a new spin, Transforming it, if you will.
Of course, messing with the flashback stuff, you'd fall into the Dreamwave trap of killing Grimlock in WW, when we all know he's alive in the present (future?). 'Meh' overload.
And, yes, the DW stuff WAS all over the place (especially spread over so many spin-off titles), but I felt that by issue nine (of G1 onging) that things may have been starting to converge into a coherant story a bit. Are we being too harsh? I mean, look at the fantastic artwork style DW introduced to all us fans, which has been slavishly copied ever since.
Yeah, they may have had their (enormous) faults, but at least we had a real comicbook again - now we're in limbo and you can't all deny it's frustrating and we miss the DW books a little bit. I certainly miss the profile books - even if it's just for the impressive DW character designs that I can scan and print on a t-shirt.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:23 pm

Blacksword wrote:
b) Fresh restart. A G1 comic planned as an ongoing from the start. Do an update of the arrival on Earth story and go from there. Take Marvel's Ultimate line as a model (though more on the Ultimates end of things, reconceptualize a more modern adult take on it and create fresh material based around the basic character profiles). Some revised and 'fixed' versions of old stories (aka the good bits, or good concepts... ie Budiansky's first arc, and Cybertron story and Furman's best) with mostly new material. A good mix of old and new to keep the harcore fans happy and get new readers. Keep it mature and have a new Hasbro-line related comic for youth (maybe continue Armada/Energon/Cybertron, but there'll be a big gap and Hasbro probably will want Cybertron on asap, so it's probably not realistic). Have a decent mix of Earth stories with grittier "back on Cybertron" stuff. Have slightly lighter Earth stories for the soft fans and the cartoon crowd and the darker Cybertron stories for the comic fans. This in my opinion is the best way to make a viable yet decent G1 comic.

Works for me. With the possible exceptionm of light and drak - surely the greater presence of the relatively weak and helpless humans lends an opportunity for more darkness.

Maybe its just me but i really want to see a ful scale TF battle in a populate city...

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:24 pm

Id have them all looking the same, but like BW said, fresh start, sort of confusing but this way the Robot forms stay faithfull but instead they tranforms into modern objects.

uh-oh im Don Murphy...

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:20 pm

Brendocon wrote:
To me, it's a nice idea to just start with something basic and just see where it ends up, rather than trying to steer it to somewhere that's already been covered.

I think this is what hamstrung the new Star Wars series.

My 2 won. (That's 2 thousandths of a cent for those of you keeping track.)

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:21 pm

Best First wrote:
Maybe its just me but i really want to see a ful scale TF battle in a populate city...

I vote for London

Post by **Best First** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:28 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Best First wrote:
Maybe its just me but i really want to see a ful scale TF battle in a populate city...
I vote for London

nah, not enough sky scrapers...

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:52 pm

Chicago, or New York, would be much better, IMHO.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:10 pm

Can't we blow up/invade with aliens/freeze over a major metropolitan area and have it NOT be New York just once?

It's not about the skyscrapers, Besty. It's all about the destruction of major landmarks. Just ask Runabout and Runamuck.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:40 pm

I had a TF story planned out where Megs ended up destroying Seattle. I forget what the appeal was. (Starbucks dies! Corporate coffee still sucks!)

Anyway...

I think they should leave the reboot or not idea up to a big name writer. With the success of the original TF miniseries, having Ellis or Millar or Stracynski or someone write the new version would probably boost sales. And it might be a good comic. Hmm...

It would make things less complicated to continue from the DW continuity... that is, business-wise. We would all still have the collective Mad Brick headache. I myself would just like to buy one good TF comic every month. Furman (or previously mentioned big-name writers) and Figueroa on G1 once a month. I would like to see how WW and Energon wrap up, but damn, they were eating right though my wallet!

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:48 pm

thats because you were also wasting your money on G1

Post by **Best First** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:27 pm

Shanti418 wrote:
It's not about the skyscrapers, Besty.

oh yes it is.

bobaprime85 · Post by **bobaprime85** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:05 pm

Best First wrote:
Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Best First wrote:
Maybe its just me but i really want to see a ful scale TF battle in a populate city...
I vote for London
nah, not enough sky scrapers...

Maybe we could have Furman destroy San Francisco again, ala G2?

Anyway, Blacksword's suggestion makes the most sense in a practical manner. It's just the right mix to satisfy the old fans and maybe pull in some random mainstream comic fans.

Personally... while I think that it would be best to ignore Dreamwave like a bad dream, I would like to see some of the WW stuff integrated into whatever new continuity shows up. Just kind of a loose foundation, maybe, but Xaaron would have to be retconned in.

Of course, providing the TF title does okay.... well, it would be just plain silly not to bring back Senior and Wildman for a G2 limited series. Just to wrap up some hanging (Ratchet) plot threads.

PS.
Let Furman and Milne pick up Energon where they left off.

Snowcat · Post by **Snowcat** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:52 am

Of course, they could always take on Jersey, then you`d get the opportunity for a Megas XLR crossover. Nice.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:37 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:thats because you were also wasting your money on G1

Still haven't bought 7-10. Nyahhh.

What is it with destroying San Fran? It's a nice, friendly town, full of wonderfully liberal people. Is this some kind of backlash against the whole Haight-Ashbury hippie thing?

Blacksword · Post by **Blacksword** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:03 pm

Best First wrote: Works for me. With the possible exceptionm of light and drak - surely the greater presence of the relatively weak and helpless humans lends an opportunity for more darkness.

Maybe its just me but i really want to see a ful scale TF battle in a populate city...

So would I. You know me Besty, the carnage in G2 brought a tears of joy to my eyes. But I was thinking practically. Huge carnage will alienate a big chunk of the existing audience (ie. cartoon fans). There'll have to be some human deaths or any credibility the book might be going for would evapourate, but no bloody carnage... to start. Give the war on earth a couple years to heat up, then we can weed the toonies out and have armagedon.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:31 am

its not a mattter of weeding out - its a matter of converting!

You of all people...

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:35 pm

How wbout we pull a Masterforce, in that the Bots and Cons have been on Earth a very long time (way before 1984) and have been slowly playing a aprt in our history (not too much though).

Maybe Prime and Megs (with maybe one or two guys from their respective factions with each) came to Earth eons ago (they both believed that Cybertron was destroyed/lost) and they lost their crews. They then both slowly began trying to locate their forces across Earth, becoming involved with Earth history from time to time. And finally by the present the war is ready to begin again (Megs wants Earth's resources now that he has the troops to do it, and Prime jsut wants to leave to search for Cybertron but feels he msut stop Megs first).

bobaprime85 · Post by **bobaprime85** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:32 pm

Blacksword wrote: Give the war on earth a couple years to heat up, then we can weed the toonies out and have armagedon.

Hmmm....bloodthirsty and sadistic.

Me likey!

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:43 pm

Dude, the Cartoon fans deserve just as much respect regarding TFs as Comic fans, there were good things in the cartoons, and pretty bad things in the Comic (Bob and Furman alike).

Anyways, I'm going for an "Ultimate" take on TFs, where the worldwide effects of their actions are known and acknowledged. Remember, TFs isn't just about war, it was also about an Alien race on Earth, and how their presence affaetced things and how the cultures interacted. Bob Budiansky did this best. Furman made it more action-packed, and gave us all this 'epic' whadda-budda, but he ignored some of what the spirit of TFs was about. It was rather humorless by then, and the dialogue between characters wasn't as good (Prime, Scorponock and occasionally Grimlock got some good stuff, but it also got pretty melodramatic, and I really wanted to strangle everyone who spoke in the third-person).

Yes, Human are in, Organic beings have been a part of TFs since the beginning, and will continue to be for the rest of its existance.

And for crying out loud, give us more rebellious, grim characters and morally ambigious ones. We're expected to believe that out of all the Autobots, Grimlock and the Dinobots are the only ones?!

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 pm

TF is about a race of transforming robots that brough thier war to our earth?

The cartoon is still **** what ever way i look at it - essentially if i mute it, its pretty to look at in places...

Id just dump G1 in the modern era or actually continue G2 from where it left off, but write in some bull crap about how they can all transform again, and thus they updated thier forms to present day stuff on earth (how convienent)

then focus abit more on the all the G2 TF left over - yaydayda, make up some new scripts, chuck in some politics from some naff high council.

oh and bring back Impactor.

simple.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:09 pm

Why do people want Impactor back? I mean, he was only in two stories, and it's not like his character or role couldn't easily be replaced with a pre-existing character...

Darth Aux · Post by **Darth Aux** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:21 pm

He was gritty, a seasoned old warrior, hard as nails and inteligent.

OK you might be able to write Ironhide or Kup into his role. But it would not work as Impactor was Big and looked like he meant business. Plus fans of any existing TF would not appreciate the changes made to that character either.

Not many already existing TF's could fit the image or personality, let alone both.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:18 pm

What would happen in the fandom if we actually did continue from G2?

let's say there's a story that has G2 Megatron, Grimlock and some troops kill a ton of G2 Decepticons to reclaim a planet:

Our debates:

Comic fan #1: Hey cool, they went on from where G2 #12 left off.
Comic fan #2: Cool huh, I wonder how long the G1 Autobot/Decepticon alliance will last though.
Comic fan #1: Yeah, it seems that G2 Megatron might actually join Liege Maximo. But luckily Grimlock suspects something.

Toonie debates:

Cartoon fan #1: What is this crap!? Why is Megatron a tank? And smart Grimlock? And why are the Autobots and Decepticons working together? And strangest of all, I saw them kill other transformers!
Cartoon fan #2: I don't understand it either, but I heard it was part of G2.
Cartoon fan #1: From that G1 CGI cartoon? I never saw anything like that in those.
Cartoon fan #2: No, I think it's from that toyline.
Cartoon fan #1: This sucks, they should have continued from Rebirth, where G1 ended!
Comic fan #1: No they continued it of the G2 COMICS, not that horrible cartoon. The Comics lasted from 1984 to 1994 which is approximately 10 years of stories. But those whopping 3 years the cartoon ran make more than up for it.
Cartoon fan #1: The comic sucks, I once read 2 pages of it.
Cartoon fan #2: Yeah, the cartoon had so many interesting plots which kept you wondering about the outcome. And then there's great characters like Grimlock and his band of merry retards.
Comic fan #1: Yawn

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:35 pm

Stormwolf wrote:

The Comics lasted from 1984 to 1994 which is approximately 10 years of stories. But those whopping 3 years the cartoon ran make more than up for it.

Sums it up for me.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:07 pm

ShadowSonic wrote:Why do people want Impactor back? I mean, he was only in two stories, and it's not like his character or role couldn't easily be replaced with a pre-existing character...

Because he was clearly cool
There wernt many characters like him, he actually was a pretty deep thinker, woorying about his team and such, and the autobot cause. plus from what we can gather, pretty hard as nails. hes a very popular fan character.

I can think of other characters they bring back who had far less impact and comic time then anyone else.

TransFans.co.uk

Continuity.... where next?

What continuity direction should new TF comics take?