Over

[Galvatron91]

mmm - bitterness appears to be creeping in - i can't stop thinking of all the commitments she made, all the things she said, and feeling really let down.

Been so there...done all that. Hit me with a PM or email if you want to chat about this. I've been getting over the same thing for a while now. While I realize I will never hear the end of what I type next Computron is right. What you need right now is time...YOUR time. Do things that make you the happiest that DON'T involve her. Horribly painful thing to hear, I know.

Your tomorrow will come and it will get easier. It's harder for that tomorrow to come as long as you keep her in contact with you. I'm not saying you can't be friends someday, but honestly...trust me when I say this, now isn't the time for that. Like I said, if you want to chat...

[Kaylee]

I'll echo Compy and G91- you must expect to be angry with her for a while, it's part of how we deal with these things. Just try and remember she isn't really any different a person from when you loved her, although your perceptions of her may have changed, so whenever you see her maybe just keep it polite and as a short as will make you comfortable.

Whenever you feel like you want to say to her "Look, this is how it REALLY is..." you might want to think to yourself that you're not really in the best frame of mind to do it, and it's worth giving it a while to think about it. In fact, I'd say all the time you're angry with her you probably won't come off as you want to.

Don't forget, she's not stupid. You told her everything you needed to when you wrote her, and she's smart enough to figure out how bad this will hurt you and that you're going to be angry and resentful.

[Brendocon]

Karl is wise. Listen to Karl.

G91 is a miserable git, but he also sometimes stumbles blindly into wisdom.

[Best First]

i'm not going home to see her, i'm going home to get my stuff before going to my folks tomorrow- i'd much rather avoid her altogether for the time being, but she will be in when i get in (i'm staying in the flat, she is moving out as soon as she can) - she's staying at a friends whenever i am going to be at home but tonight i think there will be some inevitable overlap as i am getting in quite early.

More and morei realise that the only way i am going to get over this is, in teh shrt term, to cut her out, but the logistics of the situation make that difficult.

[Dylan]

Logistics are something you simply have to deal with. If you'd really rather not see her, text message her to tell her at what time exactly you'll be in the apartment.


For what it's worth:

I had been with a lovely young woman for a number of months this year. In September, I felt it would be better to split up again. She did not agree. She wouldn't stop calling me. It made me feel miserable. In the end, a few weeks ago, I had to break off all contact. I feel even worse for having to ask someone, let alone her, to switch to total radio silence. That's just a horrible thing to do.

And yet I'm very grateful for the bit of rest I have now.

[Kaylee]

Why don't you send her a txt just saying something like:

'Will be picking some stuff up at 6PM. Just letting you know. Paul.'

That way she'd know you were coming over and might go out? Course if all else fails just try and keep it short and sweet maybe- "hi, just getting my stuff." "Got my stuff. See you."

Maybe that would help?

[Best First]

Why don't you send her a txt just saying something like:

'Will be picking some stuff up at 6PM. Just letting you know. Paul.'

That way she'd know you were coming over and might go out? Course if all else fails just try and keep it short and sweet maybe- "hi, just getting my stuff." "Got my stuff. See you."

Maybe that would help?

she knows i will be in at that time. i let her know, but she will nothave time after work to get in, get chnaged and go before i am back.

i'm foing my best not to pester her Dyaln - i wantto mail, text, phone all the time but i'm only doing it when neccs and i'm trtying to keep it fairly formal.

[Dylan]

I personally find that good to hear, Paul. Didn't mean to imply you were doing anything of the sort.

Take care.

[Best First]

saw her last night, I got very upset and she was lovely about it – which in a way does not help. But then I made the mistake of going through some of her personal stuff after she had left and some of the stuff that I read I her diaries makes me wonder if she ever really loved me, or if she just settled for me because I was there. Some of what I read guts the absolute **** out of me – I feel at the moment like I have been strung along for the last 5 years. There’s lots of evidence to contradict that of course, and I have had my own doubts many times (which I was never stupid enough to commit to paper) but at the moment I feel totally let down. I don’t want to get bitter but its what I feel at the moment – right now I wish I had never met her.



I think this is what they call rock bottom. I feel stupid pathetic boring ugly and lonely – I feel like I had my chance and I blew it, but part of me wonders if that chance ever really existed. I don’t want it all to have meant nothing or to hate her, but at the moment I feel like that’s what I am heading for. I feel like I have been lied to by the person I trusted the most for the last 5 years.



Sorry for offloading.


[composite word including 'f*ck']

[Brendocon]

But then I made the mistake of going through some of her personal stuff

Never the best of ideas. And I don't mean from the invasion of privacy thing (hang that, it's one of the risks of writing things down) - "what we don't know can't hurt us" is what I think applies here.

It's impossible to un-see certain things, sadly.

I don’t want to get bitter but its what I feel at the moment – right now I wish I had never met her.

Anger's a natural, mate. Don't be ashamed of it - just make sure that it doesn't rule you.

I feel like I had my chance and I blew it, but part of me wonders if that chance ever really existed.

Then you made a great go of something that could never happen. Better than a lot of people get. Tis better to have lost yadda yadda.

Sorry for offloading.

Don't ******* apologise. We be here for you.

[Kaylee]

Of course you had a chance You had a chance and got several good years, right?

Well at least you got that far!

You must have many things going for you (as if any line of proof were needed) if someone was willing to date/be engaged to you for all that time!

Diary/personal reading is a gutting thing to do, I've done it myself. It absolutely messes a body up- primarily I think because we all have this secret idea that when a relationship breaks up that the other person is going to be secretly crying about us and thinking about us... and it just doesn't happen like that as we imagine it.

Hence we go off and read a diary or whatever and it's like hearing their voice as they happily skip through their world without a second thought, whilst we sit feeling like our heart's being torn out.

I guess I'm trying to say we like to think that another person's world maps onto ours in a very specific way... and often it doesn't. Don't forget also things written in diaries are not thought through, proof read or anything- they are there purely for:

"Oh I'm angry I'm going to vent..."
or
"Oh I'm happy! I'll gush about it!"

You get the idea Don't take what's in there too seriously, its meant only as a private arena for someone to vent their thoughts without having to try and understand or reason with them so they represent a misleading picture of that person's motives and underlying feelings.

All that helped me was to realise that I was not heartbroken for him (her in your case obviously) but for the idea of him... the fantasy and illusion we get wrapped up in with another person.

Of course that leads on to the next question of "If I'd tried to get my **** figured out earlier I might have had a real chance..." That one still makes my heart sink.

I don't know if that applies to you or not, only you would know that If it does, all I've found for consolation is that it's hollow consolation... but you can't change the past. We just have to accept it and (hopefully) learn from it.

There's no reason the future shouldn't hold someone just as/more wonderful in all the ways you found her wonderful (just as I found Chris wonderful).

I don't believe in fate, superstition, luck (good or bad) or divine intervention. Things will only happen when I make them happen. So if I go off looking hard enough, there's no reason I can't find another special person.

That's what I keep telling myself when I get low.

Unload all you want Just tell me if I'm not being helpful

{cuddles and icecream}

[Best First]

you have been consistantly helpful.

its essentially:

my insecurities vs my ability to be rational

at the moment. insecurities are currently wading through rationality like deaths head through bumblebee.

[Kaylee]

Insecurities are a bitch... take that from (possibly after you) the most insecure person in the world (2003,2004).

I'm not half so bad though since I learnt to distinguish what was 'real' from what was an insecurity...

For me it's sort of like having this Bluto-esque bully in your mind constantly telling me I'm talentless, unloveable, everyone dislikes me, unattractive, not intelligent and just deluded whenever I think otherwise.

It's so hard to learn to stop doing it... but learning that you ARE doing it is the first step. The first step for me happened when I'd just finished the Performing Art's Society's Variety Show, and I was needed back home so I had to leave and missed the after show party.

The following day I felt low and rotten... nobody in PA liked me, I'd performed badly and I felt like an utter loser. It was only when I realised that this was because I'd wanted to go to the after show party, but because I couldn't I was hurting myself over it.

That bully was berating me over it.

When I realised that, it opened my eyes so to speak to suddenly see that people do actually like me; and it's only my insecurities that tell me otherwise and its my defence mechanisms (based upon them) that stop people being more inviting and open with me but that doesn't mean they dislike me. I'd given a great performance.

I'm not sure how to help you, but you might be able to find some notes in some of my experiences which resonate and help you to start seeing things?

Insecurities are horrid... they cause lots of things which we see as the problems, and when we finally realise we are insecure we then have to ask 'why am I insecure?' and start dealing with those issues. It's a bitch

I'm glad I've not been boring you though

[saysadie]

Oh gods yes. Insecurities can [composite word including 'f*ck'] you up in the worst way.

I've been there and back again myself. Fear kept me from really doing the things I needed to do to get over my insecurities... my insecurites fuelled the feeling itself, if that makes sense. It's a hard cycle to get out of once you're in it. I didn't even realize I was in it, I just had this vague sense of always feeling like ****, always feeling helpless, resentful, used and stepped on while having to wake up every morning and put this happy face on, mostly for the benefit of the people around me. I blamed them when it was me keeping me where I was.

... Staying with what I knew was just so much easier than taking any sort of risk though, even if I wasn't at all happy. Trying to stuff things down didn't help any either.

Willing people make excellent sounding boards, and it does really help loads. If you've got the people, do talk. But if you get into the cycle (insecurity feeding fear feeding insecurity) the only real way out of it is to depend on yourself. Keep your eyes forward and try not to doubt. Don't push your friends away, but do try and rely on yourself more.

... Dunno if any of what I've said helps, really... It's three AM-ish here and re-reading what I've written... it doesn't really seem relevant, seems mostly rambling gibble. But if it makes even a little sense and helps in some way, it's a good I guess. Insecurities getting the better of you=bad.

Karls' right. You had those years, and a diary isn't a proper way to judge what's in a person's head. It's more a judge of what was going through their head at the time of writing, be it vent/happy/sludge. Take the diaries and trash them. You'll feel a lot better.

Actually, I recommend fire. It's purty.

Things will only happen when I make them happen.

To a point, yeah... You control your attitude and mood. Outside factors only really have a big affect if you let them, imo. Beyond yourself though, you can't really control much. Acceptance of that is probably important.

Let yourself be angry. (but as was said, don't let it take over.) Venting like this is a good. Keeping stuff in... well, the stuff will have nowhere to go if it's all inside.

As was said earlier, you've got people here for you man.

[Dylan]

It's the classic debate in psychology:

Does your nature affect your actions, or do your actions affect your nature?

As with everything, I feel it's not a clear cut case of black and white. (Tell that to the scientific world and they'll kill you.)

But the question above put differently might be:

Can you become happy again by 'forcing' yourself to do happy things?

I think that's absolutely true.

I would like to believe that I convinced myself that I am a wonderful person, a superhero even. I wanted to be one, so consciously acted upon it, a lo! I believe it!

Irony has it the trick probably didn't work on the rest of the world. But that's detail. I hope.

* sulks *

[Denyer]

think i am going to have to bump into her at the flat tonight. bollocks.

*Presses the "that'll end poorly" button*

Not everything is rejected script from The Godfather.

I feel like I had my chance and I blew it,

Sounds familiar. We don't only get one. Some don't necessarily get one. Principal amongst the factors that determine whether we get chances, I think, is opening our minds to their possibility.

some of the stuff that I read I her diaries makes me wonder if she ever really loved me, or if she just settled for me because I was there.

I think that's what love is; being there, in a stretched-out moment. How far the moment stretches out depends on a whole bunch of things, not least of which is an adapting view on what love is. Eternal. Fleeting. Soaring. Well-grounded. The journey being more important than the ideal.

Now is not the greatest of times to assess whether past actions and situations had meaning at the time; in the nicest possible way, that's irrelevant. Things not going to script doesn't invalidate the effort, make it any less worthwhile or in any way diminish the good memories—only the way we look at things can do that.

I would like to believe that I convinced myself that I am a wonderful person, a superhero even. I wanted to be one, so consciously acted upon it, a lo! I believe it!

Mm... doing is being, to an extent. Part of the reason I like myself is because the alternative would be extremely counter-productive. Part of it's because I know I'm not perfect—forgiving others and myself is lot easier without too many high abstract standards. If, er, that makes any sense. Aspirations are wonderful things, ones that break us at the boundary of our limits less so. "No limits" is an abstraction.

Beyond yourself though, you can't really control much. Acceptance of that is probably important.

Can't always control ourselves, either. As you say, it's acceptance that's key. Can't do and be everything, but sometimes that mindset is useful. What we can do is nudge the blocks of our own reality—like all of those proverbs about pebbles and streams, chaos theory and butterflies; what people do matters.

like deaths head through bumblebee.

He came back.

[Best First]

like deaths head through bumblebee.

He came back.

[Hound]

He came back stronger

yet another reason why Bumblebee is one of the greatest TF's of all time

[Kaylee]

He came back stronger

yet another reason why Bumblebee is one of the greatest TF's of all time

- ^
o_O

...I vote we murder this analogy before it continues to consume our lives!!

[Shanti418]

Insecurity is bollocks, pure and simple. I've stuggled with it all my life. My father was always very verbally abusive, calling me fat and stupid and lazy all the time growing up. I think there was a long period of my childhood where I didn't want to be in shape simply because I knew he would think it would be because of him.
I always grew up thinking all of these things about myself. I didn't even bother trying to go out on dates in high school: I was fat and ugly, so why bother? I took it for granted that I needed money or a cool car or social standing (none of which I had) to have anyone like me.

I didn't even go on a date until I was 20. I didn't lose my virginity 'till I was 22. (Ssshh! My mates don't even know that!) That girl was also my first girlfriend. If she hadn't come into my life, I probably would have become a psycho woman hating crazy guy at this point.

And so now I'm on the other side of that relationship, and I thought the acceptance and love and attraction of a good girl would somehow wipe away those decades of insecurities. But they haven't. I still fight those voices telling me I'm ugly, bald and fat (I'm 6'4, 250), and I don't know how to fight them. When I think about it, I KNOW these things aren't true. But when I see a pretty girl, and I'm so deathly afraid to talk to her, I know that those things are the bricks in my psychological wall that stop me from really being myself and succeeding.

Okay, that was a little bit of a rant. Sorry. I just feel like crap right now.

So in summary, it doesn't take the end of a relationship to think you're ugly and boring. You can feel like that any time you want!

[Best First]

i woke up this morning to find out i no longer have a mouth and i have a pull back motor for legs.

[Dylan]

At least you didn't turn into that horrible character, Death's Head.

* ducks the knifes and grenades thrown at him *


Good to see that some things never change.

[Best First]

if i woke up and found out i was DH that would be mint.

for a day or so anyway.

[Kaylee]

if i woke up and found out i was DH that would be mint.

for a day or so anyway.

You could take out Dylan

There's 10,000 Shannix in it for you!

[Best First]

i din't usually mix business and pleasure...

...but perhaps this time i make an exception, yes?

[Kaylee]

[Dylan]

[Kaylee]

{hug}

[Dylan]

Right back atcha, Karlyboo

[Redstreak]

i woke up this morning to find out i no longer have a mouth and i have a pull back motor for legs.

Damn, being a Throttlebot must suck.