So what exactly is the Marvel TF universe now?

[Computron]

It's pretty clear Regen is a continuation of the U.S. series, heck it even continues the same numbering after the US run ended.

However G2 was the earlier continuation of the same series, and eventually Beast Wars and Beast Machines continue said storyline as well. (Or at least it is heavily implied that they do.)

Then of course we have the UK comics, which I suppose branch off in their own universe, correct?

(I know James Roberts has a unified US/UK comics theory in the foreward of Eugenesis, but I still can't wrap my head around how that works.)

So when you think of the Marvel universe, which way does your brain go? I tend to still think of the G1/G2/Beast Wars/Beast Machines line being the "Prime" timeline, but a lot of that is bias and personal desire as opposed to any objective standard.

[Metal Vendetta]

I'm comfortable with branching streams (and of course parallel streams) in the multiverse. The Regeneration One stream has been sealed off from the multiverse, though it doesn't mean others can't be revisited - IDW could always visit the G2verse in a full-on Yanniger stylee if they go dimension-hopping, much like Furman crosses the streams in the finale when we see other universes (I'm going to call them that because "streams" make me think of wee) through the rift. Or when Hot Rod nipped over to the post-movie Rhythms of Darkness universe to steal the Matrix in issue #0 - I'm assuming (and I may be wrong) from the final issue that universe still exists but they're sealed off from it.

I think it's inevitable that with Marvel US having at least two parallel universes (main and Rhythms of Darkness) plus whatever you call the "regular" Marvel UK timeline and the various futures that are shown or can be extrapolated from it - the Target: 2006 future, the post-Time Wars reboot future, all those crazy universes where Galvatron is actually Straxus, Earthforce, Another Time & Place - then those whacky neon German comics, G2 and Classics.that some element of the Marvelverse will be revisited. And if not, well, it's not as if every continuity doesn't have a Maccadam's and the Wreckers these days anyway :/

[inflatable dalek]

Yeah, it best to view End of the Road as the "Proper" end of the original series, and to put all the mutually exclusive continuations in their own little bubbles. Though I suppose if any were to have precedence based on anything other than the highly subjective notion of quality it would be Generation 2, actually being published by Marvel (and being a more substantial body of work than Another Time and Place) whilst still having the various other edges the other continuations have, like being written by Furman.

That's probably where IDW's Joe continuation had a much simpler job, there's only been one prior picking up of the Marvel continuity with the Devil's Due stuff, and as the main series of that hadn't been written by the man regarded as the "Guru" of the franchise fans would have been much more cheerful about discarding it and accepting the new Hama vision than many Transformers fans were with Reg.

On the other hand, Marvel Transformers has so many continuations, including more than one written by Furman, Reg didn't stand much of a chance of feeling as special.

[Death's Head]

Marvel US and UK don't conflict all that much - certainly not with the edits present in the UK reprints of the American stuff. Goldbug's origin is the only major one - everything else barely needs a squint to fit (I think some take issue with Shockwave remaining active in the UK book after his fall to Earth courtesy of Fort Max, but it doesn't really matter or come up in the story. That was a silly "death" in any case - that was exactly how Shockers came to Earth in the first place!).

And yes, Earthforce fits. Somehow. I insist upon it. Packing it off into its own pocket universe is just so...dull.

[Computron]

I guess my issue with the US/UK mashup is that you have to reconcile Unicron from the movie (which is part of UK canon) with EoE Unicron from the US run. Really, its the entire mashing the movie into the comic series that gives me headaches. Love em both to pieces, I really do, but my admittedly limited mind can't quite make it work.

Maybe I haven't been exposed to enough 80's and 90's Marvel and DC comics where continuity was more of an aspiration rather than a rule.

[Brendocon]

I guess my issue with the US/UK mashup is that you have to reconcile Unicron from the movie (which is part of UK canon)

Nah.

The UK comics run on the premise that the basic events of Transformers: The Movie happen.

Optimus Prime dies, Hot Rod inherits the Matrix, Unicron converts Megatron into Galvatron. The exact events are never really expanded on though, meaning we're not tied into specific details. And we also we don't have to factor in Call of the Primitives because we get Unicron's origin later on in the comics anyway.

Just think of it as there being an unseen "alternate version Comics Movie" that happened off-page.

The Galvatron running around in the UK comics "present day" is from a future. Not specifically the one depicted in the animated movie, although the events that resulted in his creation are similar.

[inflatable dalek]

Never had trouble with Unicron showing up earlier myself as the Aspects of Evil story where Rodimus returned to the future was fairly emphatic that history had been drastically altered and the future history we'd seen now no longer happened. But I do know a lot of fans like to ignore his exact words there and just have him having jumped to another dimension entirely or something. Presumably this is down to not wanting to completely destroy all the 21st century adventures, and to be fair, the TMUK stuff does make a surprisingly decent fist of having End of the Road wind up leading to Transformers: The Movie.

You've also got things like Alignment (which isn't Hasbro approved but is Furman written), and Eugeneiss which, despite not being remotely officially, is arguably the best thing I've read set in the post 332 Marvel timeline.

Then, there used to be a lot of debate (though it seems to have become an unpopular/forgotten theory these days), that Beast Wars is set in the Marvel universe rather than the cartoon one. Never went with that one myself (referencing things like Primus don't make it Marvel anyone that Doctor Who using Rels makes the Peter Cushing movies part of the show's continuity), but it's an idea that used to have a fairly vocal following.

[Brendocon]

Yeah, Beast Wars is set in its own amalgam universe more than anything.

It was meant to be standalone, then fans assumed that the references to a war were references to the original series, so the creators ran with it, throwing in references to the cartoon. Then they needed an "oh god" analogue, stumbled upon the word "Primus" and ended up with worms everywhere.

So it's in both but neither. There's so many different iterations of every continuity floating around nowadays that the issue seems to have been dropped solely because it just doesn't matter anymore.

Now where did I leave that great big Takara "unified continuity" map...

[Computron]

I guess that all makes more sense in general, but doesn't that still mean Unicron was defeated twice? First in EoE and then later in TF:TM? Or vice versa depending on timelines I guess. What it boils down for me is how the TF's forgot about Unicron the first time around.

[Brendocon]

I guess that all makes more sense in general, but doesn't that still mean Unicron was defeated twice? First in EoE and then later in TF:TM? Or vice versa depending on timelines I guess. What it boils down for me is how the TF's forgot about Unicron the first time around.

There's nothing to suggest that [if it is indeed the second time they faced him] they'd forgotten about him when he returned in 2005/6.

There's so many paradoxes in place that it's a great big mess of alternate timelines anyway. The moment Galvatron arrives in 1986 it creates an alternate pathway that may not even result in the events that created him.

TIME TRAVEL BRAINSPLODE.

But yeah, basically they may or may not have faced him already by the time he trucks up in the unseen comics movie.

[Computron]

There's nothing to suggest that [if it is indeed the second time they faced him] they'd forgotten about him when he returned in 2005/6.

Well aside from everyone forgetting that the Matrix was an Anti-Unicron grenade.

But I do see and agree with your point. We've got a plethora of timelines now, so its best to just say "Enjoy what you enjoy."

Edit - Ok I read your post more clearly. Yeah, we don't know how the UK comic version of the movie went, so for all we know Optimus made it very clear on his deathbed that if Unicron came back to shove the Matrix at him until he explodes.

[inflatable dalek]

I believe the TMUK explanation (as part of the story so far PDF that came with Eugenesis, I think Death's Head at least is more familiar with the actual fiction than me and is therefore more qualified to say how well it worked) did introduce species wide amnesia to explain how Edge of Extinction and The Movie can happen in the same timeline as part of their "Everything happened, everything counts" ethos.

The history changed explanation is even simpler, Transformers the Movie just no longer happened in the new history.

There's an inadvertently hilarious response from either later day Dreadwind or early Blaster in response to a similar question that basically boils down to "The Movie was years ago Grandad, who cares after all this time?"

[Computron]

There's an inadvertently hilarious response from either later day Dreadwind or early Blaster in response to a similar question that basically boils down to "The Movie was years ago Grandad, who cares after all this time?"

Kranix I assume. If the TF's had remembered who Unicron was, maybe his planet would not have been gobbled up.

[Death's Head]

I believe the TMUK explanation (as part of the story so far PDF that came with Eugenesis, I think Death's Head at least is more familiar with the actual fiction than me and is therefore more qualified to say how well it worked) did introduce species wide amnesia to explain how Edge of Extinction and The Movie can happen in the same timeline as part of their "Everything happened, everything counts" ethos.

Yeah, it was a race-wide 'memory gap' caused by Unicron himself, giving him time to rebuild his body, and have the odd skirmish with the Cybertronian Empire, I must admit, I did used to think that was stretching credulity a bit, but then I remembered that Target: 2006 is solved by Unicron mentally possessing three major Autobots in the middle of the f'ing movie and having them do his bidding. Race-wide amnesia subsequently didn't seem too much of a stretch!

I think the amnesia lifts not long after the movie - certainly before Unicron's third coming in 2010. I addressed it directly in one story, but generally it was just considered one of those 'facts' of the TMUK universe - something to keep it all together.

[Best First]

The race wide memory blah also surfaced in G2 didn't it?

Everyone seemed to have forgotten about the Swarm.

Not sure if that was a deliberate nod to TMUK by SF or not.

I'm kind of at the point of - if the stories are good and it's not glaring - i don't really care.

[Death's Head]

Yeah, they're pretty forgetful chaps, the old Transformers, but since they have computer brains it does make a bit of sense that their memories are up for grabs by 'higher powers'. In the same way, at first Scorponok's "gene key" thingy in Regen-One seemed a bit daft until I remembered that it's basically the plot of "To a Power Unknown".

Actually, I'm not sure that redeems it, but you know what I mean...

[Death's Head]

And yeah, you're right that in G2 everyone's forgotten about 'budding' - especially as it was probably still occurring within the lifetimes of most of the characters. James Roberts addresses this in Eugenesis, actually, which is where he first developed the distinction between 'forged' (born from 'budding') and 'constructed cold' (built and then infused with life from the Matrix) - at some point in TMUK history the memory gap regarding budding is lifted too.

This has interesting implications for his IDW work. We already know what 'constructed cold' means in the IDW-verse: a body is built then infused with life from the Matrix. So far, all we know about those 'forged' is that their sparks emerge from the surface of Cybertron itself and are surrounded by 'sentio metallico'. This has parallels with Generation 2, where it's revealed that the first Cybertronians were born from the planet's surface in much the same way. Also, the term 'sentio metallico' was given by James to describe the sort of fluid metal that emerges from a Transformer's chest during budding, forming the newborn.

This, coupled with the knowledge that those with forged limbs (Ratchet, Whirl, Shockwave) consider their original appendages to be irreplaceable indicates that, in the IDW-verse, to be forged means to be fully born, spark-and-body-whole, from the surface of the planet (presumably after the spark and sentio-metallico is harvested, it continues to grow?). This has political implications for those constructed cold, as regards Ratioism; after all, someone must have built their bodies, and thus their alternate modes, so what does that say for the constructed-cold menial worker?

Sorry, hugely off-topic, but it's been brewing on my mind a while...

[Shanti418]

Ah, whatever. Being an old man, and this being a complicated situation, I feel fine either A) fashioning a continuity I like and B) accepting real world factors.

So Marvel US/UK are both in continuity, and if there's any contradiction, it's because one was made in the US and the other in the UK.
Beast Wars/Machines doesn't exist in my continuity, because truck not monkey.

And then at that point everything is branches, so you can go Alignment,/G2/Rhythms/ReGen, whatever.