MTMTE 15 Full Issue [Spoilers]

Post by **Best First** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:44 pm

Jesus.

This is like Romeo and Juliet. But with asexual robots, and huge guns, and space ships AND BETTER JOKES.

And quite possibly a sadder ending.

Best TF comic ever written? Probably.

Best comic out this week - without a shadow of a doubt.

Oh we the privalaged few.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:57 pm

.....

I think that's the best I can do.
I stood at the counter at travelling man until I finished it. Then I came home and read it on the bus. Now I'm reading it again.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:58 pm

[composite word including 'f*ck']

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:02 pm

Although what's up with the quality of the paper this week? This stuff is wrinkled as hell. And it's not been in the cold or the damp. And it keeps getting worse with every passing minute. Is this like that thing KISS pulled that time with the dissolving photos of themselves? The comic's just too awesome for us to be allowed to re-read after more than an hour of being out of the case? I just hope parking it between my Primal scream and Matrix Quest hardbacks will sort it out.

Post by **snarl** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:12 pm

Paper's fine on my copy.

Maybe it's your fingers?

Great issue.

Stones on Drift!

I hold out hope that [redacted] somehow survives Overlord "not holding back".

It was a big event, I really enjoyed it... it befitted a larger issue.

As for the end, think that's curtains for [redacted], but I doubt [redacted] died.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:14 pm

That was heartbreaking

I have to admit, I was expecting more carnage. It feels like this could have been expanded over 2 issues given how long the build up has been.

So the confirmed casualties: SPOILERS

Pipes
Magnus
Rewind

Cosmos, Ratchet and Point Blank looked in a bad way but I guess we will have the autopsy next issue.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:22 pm

Spoil it man! Spoil it!

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:24 pm

snarl wrote:Paper's fine on my copy.

Maybe it's your fingers?

I only ever touch the spine and corners when reading comics. And then only with the lightest of touches of my fingertips and knuckles.

Trust me, the entire comic just has the texture of.... kinda crossed between toilet paper and printer paper. It's wierd. It's like it has evenly spaced ridges of gloss and matte. and the matte bits are expanding all the time, causing wrinkling. Maybe it was just as they replaced the ink or something.

*edit* Just flicked through my Marvel UK #201 and THAT'S what it reminds me of! Half of it uses the paper we're used to from every other issue of MTMTE/RID, and the OTHER half is like the grade of paper used for my old Marvel UK ones!

*edit #2* I knew I shoulda gone for the RI cover.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:29 pm

Still certain Mags is gonna be okay.

Overlord's impregnable skeleton will be fine until the DJD catch up with him in space there and Tarn talks him to death. But Rewind probably didn't survive the explosion as easily.

Did anything nice ever actually happen to Pipes in this entire series? Did, like, a bunch of falling pipes kill James Roberts' parents or something?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Think Magnus may get a more drawn out death with a bit of time for pathos but could still be for it.

Agree with Benjo that i was expecting a bit more carnage but i think we will see some retrospective clarification of the full horror next issue.

Things that were off the chart amazing:
- awooga awooga/red
- Ratchet
- The evolution of Drift
- Cyclonus
- Fortress Maximum Badass
- the ongoing impact of the meta-bomb
- tragic, but heroci exist for both Pipes (sob) and Rewind.
- Rung, every single time
- the fact this comic exists

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:46 pm

I'm gonna be frank - I'm disappointed. It's not that it's a bad issue, but seems to be one of those situations were the hype outstrips the reality.

Essentially everything played out as I expected. Fort Max has his showdown, Magnus gets a beating, everyone else piles in - Rodumus's "till all are one" proves Overlord's downfall. So no real curve balls there.

The only death that actually moved me was Pipes (which I'd already seen in the preview), yet nothing beyond this really shocks in the same way.

The pacing seems off - Roberts spends too long setting up the encounter between Overlord and the crew, so the actual fight feels way too short. Coupled with the lack of carnage, and the whole thing just lacked that bit of spark and tension that I expect from Jame's writing.

Another good example is when Overlord pops up behind Ratchet. I actually thought "holy **** he's gonna off Ratchet!", but instead Ratchet goes all spidey-sense tingle-time, then Drift shows up randomly (how did he know Overlord was there?!). Finally the fight looks like it's going to happen, but instead we get more standard-Roberts comedy before ...NOTHING... because the fight happens OFF PANEL!

On the art front, starts amazingly-well with the usual Milne quality, but then gets a touch scrappy towards the end. I'm also kinda pissed that Milne's ruins the 'death' of Magnus with his cover. Seems a poor choice really, and harks back to the 'old' Milne - far too much going on. Roche's is far superior - way more subtle and poignant.

The issue actually reminds me a lot of Devastation and the 'acceptable losses' of Runabout / Runamuck in it's promise vs. anti-climatic reality.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:04 pm

I definitely think this issue suffered from high expectation, but that's no reflection on its quality.

I guess Fort Max's payback could be seen coming but I'm glad it happened, he deserved a heroic moment after all of his sufferings.

Also it's entirely possible that Rewind could survive - if Overlord decided he had usefulness and shielded him from the explosion.

Did anyone else notice the blueprints for a full on starship Fortress Maximus in Brainstorm's lab? Probably jut an Easter egg but I'd love that to make an appearance in the future!

Post by **snarl** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:10 pm

I also think we may see the battle drawn out in flashback over a future issue. I will feel a bit peeved if we dont. Hell, I just want more of a good thing. But is it possibly doing it over two issues would have dragged it out? That's why, as more or less the curtain for the first act, I think having a 48 page special would have been mint.

Think "till all are one" was well executed. It was telegraphed beforehand obviously... I've seen people moaning about it because they figured it out. I reckon JR wanted you to figure it out, so he could play with how it actually would work. The stuff that he doesn't want figured out with ease is way more subtle.

I agree on the pacing a bit, would have liked to have seen more carnage... but think we'll have the fight fleshed out in future issues. And if that does happen that way (I hope it does), that it's not been linear will possibly not please everybody. I'm not sure I wouldn't have preferred a longer battle in a larger issue... or chopping away one or two pages of the exposition... but it's more or less key info in the exposition, and where else could it have fit?

Art is a tiny bit sketchy in places, Milne has had to draw a lot of bots this issue. But all in all really solid again. One thing I think the art does so right that RiD does so wrong is just the use of solid black for so much of the shadow, and not going overboard on colouring / highlighting / effects. It makes the robots themselves feel so much more solid, makes them stand out so much more. Also, the use of one / two toned block coloured backgrounds in key panels - really work for me. Gives the characters and panels gravitas.

The meta-bomb was great, and as biff points out... he's definitely pressed hasn't!

Post by **snarl** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:16 pm

one thing to add - I've seen some people moaning that it was predictable, with Fort Max saving the day?

So ******* what?

I "predicted" we'd have a ******* UM v Galvatron throw down in 1991, and [composite word including 'f*ck'] me I wanted and expected it... The ******* story pointed to it happening!

As has MTMTE...

And in G1, when it didn't happen, I felt ******* cheated.

The impression I have of the one or two posters on one or two other boards moaning about this is that they're trying to show how clever they are...

But we never seem to attract that type of poster here. And I'm glad we don't have many posters like that here - Round of applause us! We've got a really good defence mechanism: of bullying moany bell end posters to pieces - go us

!

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:23 pm

My big gripe with the pacing was Roberts' sly pitch to Marvel asking for the Deadpool gig.
I felt the meta bomb's effects in that panel with Drift kinda detracted from the impact of the whole scene.

Pipes' death was definitely the most moving of the bunch.

That and this really felt like a two-parter cut short.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:45 pm

I think it's a difficult one in that all we are really asking for is more carnage/a longer fight scene - would that in itself justify another issue? Or is there stuff you would take out that is presently there to make room for it?

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:54 pm

snarl wrote:one thing to add - I've seen some people moaning that it was predictable, with Fort Max saving the day?

So ******* what?

I "predicted" we'd have a ******* UM v Galvatron throw down in 1991, and **** me I wanted and expected it... The ******* story pointed to it happening!

As has MTMTE...

And in G1, when it didn't happen, I felt ******* cheated.

The impression I have of the one or two posters on one or two other boards moaning about this is that they're trying to show how clever they are...

But we never seem to attract that type of poster here. And I'm glad we don't have many posters like that here - Round of applause us! We've got a really good defence mechanism: of bullying moany bell end posters to pieces - go us !

Hmmm I don't think the complaint is so much about the predictability of those events, but more so how they were executed in this particular issue.

Of course we all knew it was going to boil down to Fort Max saving the day, but one would hope to feel a sense of satisfaction in seeing this. Yet instead the scene feels limp, like it doesn't quite have the impact it should.

I blame that partially down on the pacing, and partially down to the lack of carnage - beyond Pipes, Overlord just isn't portrayed as the murderous ass-wipe he's made out to be.

We all know he's a badass from LSOTW, yet half the battle happens off-panel, undermining how big a threat he is to crew. Could we not have seen a montage of him taking down a few C-list crew members in brutal fashion? It would've made the physical threat of Overlord far more real.

In the build up to the issue, promises were floated about like "all out war" and "rising death toll", yet the reality is 1 bot dies and 2 more are *maybe* dead. After seeing what Overlord did to the Wreckers that strikes me as a poor showing - it cheapens the impact.

Also on a side note - why doe Rewind need to get into the time-chamber to move the sword? Maybe it's the way Milne's drawn it, but it doesn't look like it'd be hard to move from outside the chamber!

Bear in mind I still think it's a good issue, but by Jame's usual lofty standards it isn't quite up there with past ones. Maybe next issues will shine a bit more light onto these events and make it a bit more satisfying.

Pipe's death is the stand out moment for me - a real 'MTMTE' death. Just a shame it's the only one.

Post by **snarl** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:56 pm

Going back to the pacing. If the fight is two issues long, you have a potential problem of stretching credibility.

The battle has to wrap up quickly... cause if it doesn't... everybody dies don't they? Is it possible to have Overlord on the loose for two issues in a contained environment without your whole crew / ship going down? I don't think so. Had he bested Max, you come to a fork where either nobody else on the LL lives, or you have to think of a really really ******* clever way to end it... What's your other option? The logical one is do what Cyclonus said - want to see an issue of that?

What about the DJD? If the DJD come aboard... Everybody dies. The idea they come aboard, help tame Overlord then quietly leave... stretching it. Called away AGAIN? Convoluted!

Hopefully Overlord has survived and landed on a nearby planet or something, cause that fight has to happen.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:59 pm

Mr_Tigg wrote:
Also on a side note - why doe Rewind need to get into the time-chamber to move the sword? Maybe it's the way Milne's drawn it, but it doesn't look like it'd be hard to move from outside the chamber! .

That's what I thought when I saw Chromedome's arm cut off, "Surely you could have sacrificed a leg to kick it out of the way, no?"

Post by **snarl** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:01 pm

Best First wrote:I think it's a difficult one in that all we are really asking for is more carnage/a longer fight scene - would that in itself justify another issue? Or is there stuff you would take out that is presently there to make room for it?

This.

Could you take out the character moments on 7/8/9?

Maybe, maybe not. We'll just have to wait for the aftermath, because the story isn't completely done yet is it?

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:02 pm

snarl wrote: The battle has to wrap up quickly... cause if it doesn't... everybody dies don't they? Is it possible to have Overlord on the loose for two issues in a contained environment without your whole crew / ship going down?

LSOTW did it fine. With less cannon fodder, might I add.

snarl wrote:What about the DJD? If the DJD come aboard... Everybody dies. The idea they come aboard, help tame Overlord then quietly leave... stretching it. Called away AGAIN? Convoluted!
.

You eject the pod with a pitched battle underway aboard it between Tarn and Overlord. Lots of incredibly eloquent insults flying between them. The other DJD members launch to go after them.

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:02 pm

Best First wrote:I think it's a difficult one in that all we are really asking for is more carnage/a longer fight scene - would that in itself justify another issue? Or is there stuff you would take out that is presently there to make room for it?

I would've ditched the Rodimus / Percepter scene for one. That whole Matrix map thing could've been saved for next issue.

I read a post on the IDW boards that points out how Chromedome appearing at the start plunges us straight into the fight, yet rather than expanding on it, we're instead treated / forced to witness some slow-burner flashbacks.

I like how carefully Jame's plans these things, but surely the time for 'set up' was last issue rather than half of this issue? The result is we've got a ton of build up scenes but very little in the way of a climatic battle, and that's the problem for me - the balance is all wrong.

Post by **snarl** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:13 pm

Sunyavadin wrote: LSOTW did it fine. With less cannon fodder, might I add.

I disagree. They're trapped in a confined space under circumstances where they have to engage him otherwise he can sabotage the gaffe then [composite word including 'f*ck'] off at his leisure. He's clearly very much "up for it" in this.

LSOTW is cat and mouse. The bots in this issue have no option other than full on confrontation.

Possibly Brainstorm could have a crazy gun, but you would assume that this would be deployed in an instant, which again makes the fight a quick and bloody one.

maybe this happened and we'll see it in a flashback?

For me it boils down to this. Compared to Overlord, the bots just aren't durable enough, and there's no open space for clever avoidance tactics. But still, they have to engage. All points to a quick, brutal fight.

Sunyavadin wrote: You eject the pod with a pitched battle underway aboard it between Tarn and Overlord. Lots of incredibly eloquent insults flying between them. The other DJD members launch to go after them.

Sounds cool, bit convenient though isn't it. What lured them in there, a bit of cheddar?

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:22 pm

snarl wrote:Going back to the pacing. If the fight is two issues long, you have a potential problem of stretching credibility.

The battle has to wrap up quickly... cause if it doesn't... everybody dies don't they? Is it possible to have Overlord on the loose for two issues in a contained environment without your whole crew / ship going down? I don't think so. Had he bested Max, you come to a fork where either nobody else on the LL lives, or you have to think of a really really ******* clever way to end it... What's your other option? The logical one is do what Cyclonus said - want to see an issue of that?

What about the DJD? If the DJD come aboard... Everybody dies. The idea they come aboard, help tame Overlord then quietly leave... stretching it. Called away AGAIN? Convoluted!

Hopefully Overlord has survived and landed on a nearby planet or something, cause that fight has to happen.

I'd forgotten about the DJD, but it's kinda cool that they ended up being a red herring of sorts.

I don't think the solution was necessarily stretching it over another issue, but rather ditching some of the flashback scenes, so we can get an extra page or so of Overlord carnage.

This issue should've all been about the final fight (ala Overlord vs. Wreckers in chapter 5 of LSOTW).

Post by **Best First** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:23 pm

Maybe they followed Ripley in there?

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:29 pm

It also reminds me a bit of Six Shot vs. Prime & co in Devastation - again in the anti-climatic qualities.

As Tarn so nicely put it "what is it with phase sixers?"

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Mr_Tigg wrote:
snarl wrote:Going back to the pacing. If the fight is two issues long, you have a potential problem of stretching credibility.

The battle has to wrap up quickly... cause if it doesn't... everybody dies don't they? Is it possible to have Overlord on the loose for two issues in a contained environment without your whole crew / ship going down? I don't think so. Had he bested Max, you come to a fork where either nobody else on the LL lives, or you have to think of a really really ******* clever way to end it... What's your other option? The logical one is do what Cyclonus said - want to see an issue of that?

What about the DJD? If the DJD come aboard... Everybody dies. The idea they come aboard, help tame Overlord then quietly leave... stretching it. Called away AGAIN? Convoluted!

Hopefully Overlord has survived and landed on a nearby planet or something, cause that fight has to happen.
I'd forgotten about the DJD, but it's kinda cool that they ended up being a red herring of sorts.

I don't think the solution was necessarily stretching it over another issue, but rather ditching some of the flashback scenes, so we can get an extra page or so of Overlord carnage.

This issue should've all been about the final fight (ala Overlord vs. Wreckers in chapter 5 of LSOTW).

I think this is far from the final fight

Post by **snarl** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:48 pm

I make you right.

Anyway, approx 30 replies in about 2 hours. the issue has certainly set tongues wagging.

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:09 pm

Interesting tipbit picked up over on the IDW boards - in the time it took Chromedome to get upstairs and shoot the time chamber, Overlord would've had 30 mins or so with Rewind AND Chromedome's servered- mnemosurgeon arm!

Post by **snarl** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:22 pm

I think they might have it the wrong way round - Even if it took Chromedome 30 mins to get to the bridge to bomb the cell, only 5 seconds would have passed inside it. And Chromedome looks like he gets to the bridge pretty quick. So I think inside the cell, possible a second goes by I reckon.

I did see some other interesting ideas on the IDW board, e.g. Fixit in issue 12, talking about rewind, says words to the effect of "his spark's shrinking, a bigger bot like UM could survive this, but"

And also the possibility of Overlord, having been linked to Chromedome, now knows CD's dark secrets, and could maybe use these to corrupt Rewind and turn him to the dark side, or something.