MTMTE 11

Post by **Best First** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:44 pm

HOLY. ****ING. ****

Best ending ever.

Also Milne has hust gone off the chart.

Basically i am just cackling to myself with happiness.

Post by **snarl** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:34 pm

Yes, the last page, reading it, It's made Mr. Winky go right small it has. Oh yes it has, oh yeah.

And my ballbag, my old ballbag, has only gone and gone up my bum.

This was a great issue.

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:28 pm

Bloody.

*******.

Hell.

SPOILERIFIC

SHOCKWAVE!

No one saw that coming did they? I mean, even though in retrospect its obvious. who else could turn out to be behind literally EVERYTHING?

If there's a flaw, when he was joking and bantering about his colour changing I did think "Well, he's suddenly a bit chipper isn't he?", so once I got to the end it felt like Roberts had ramped that up a bit so as to make more of an ironic contrast to what was to come. Would have worked better if he'd been a jokey kind of guy right from the off.

A great ending made up for an issue that (by the standards of its own series) felt a bit lacklustre. The heist itself was very neat and pat and seemingly pointless when the final explosion only wound up destroying a police station rather than the city wide chaos promised last issue (so it seems it would have been less of a threat to life if it had gone off in the empty tomb building. I hope there weren't any prisoners...).

It felt a bit odd that Rung was totally out of the flashbacks after the first page of the first part and wasn't even slightly directed to the case itself. Could Rewind not find something that included even marginally more directly (though I suppose he could have with the first two groups, that was a good laugh).

Everything sort of petered out at the end as well. Presumably in a vague attempt to sort of fit in with Autocracy, where Orion is amazed and surprised by the idea of conspiracies and has complete faith in the Senate and Zeta so he can't really go off on the obvious narrative path of actually dealing immediately with all of this.

Characterisation remained strong though, lots and lots of great little bits and bobs that continued to make everyone feel very real. Out of the final those small moments were probably the out and out highlight of the issue.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:36 am

Not the origin story I expected.

SPOILERS

Shockwave didn't do it. Now, "It did Shockwave". As someone on another board said, this is the "I am your father" moment of IDW TF. I mean, it has to be the biggest jaw-dropper since IDW got the license and puts a whooooole new spin on a character we thought we knew so very well.

Wow, I bet nobody saw that coming. I mean, it just wouldn't have made any sense. But when you think about it, it's a possibility. Shockwave never really was a player on the board that far back in IDW continuity. We never saw him during the launch of the Ark I. Never saw him during Megatron's rise out of the miner pits. Never saw him in Starscream's bid to attract more bots to the Decepticon movement. And after the Academy's full name is revealed, the Jhiaxian Academy of Advanced Technology, it kind of makes even more sense because being tight as a senator to the Academy means Shockwave had a working relationship with Jhiaxus, which later led to him being Jhiaxus' greatest pupil. Wow. I was completely expecting Tarn.

Windcharger! Finally, Mr Magnetism gets introduced into IDW continuity after six years. Bout damn time.

Another stellar issue, for the conclusion alone. The whole stealing the Matrix thing didn't play out as interesting as I would have hoped, but it was good enough.

Another solid "A+". Shadowplay. Get me that trade.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:53 pm

Enjoyed this thoroughly. At first I was like "What? Shockwave? This guy doesn't seem like... well, he was going around messing with people's chest cavities, and planning stuff from behind the scenes..."

I'm getting more out of this comic than I do any other comic, every month. The amount of depth and thought he puts into the TFs is shocking. Forged and constructed cold? Robot apartheid? Switching shapes for drug money? This is the most creative any TF writer has ever gotten with concept.

I'm wondering if he's thought (like I have) that changing shape is the best analogy for the TFs to sex among humans. It's part of their nature, it gives them a rush--it's not necessarily giving robot orgasms, but the transformations fulfill that deep-seated biological need while having all sorts of interesting societal consequences.

Now if only we had a good gender-neutral pronoun for these robots, we could get rid of the silly gendered robots once and for all.

Small (but long) gripe: From the deconstruction podcasts, I can tell that James' original scripts go much longer than what we see in the issues. Sometimes larger things get short shrift. Like what was going on in last panel of 3 and first panel of 4? Rewind's "secret parties?" Is that what that was supposed to be?

So many important monologues get crammed into one panel, like Rewind's observance that Rung shows up in billions of his memories. Then we have a lot of... well, fluff that could be cut. Prime's conversation with Roller on 7 feels almost as though Roberts is trying to recreate Furman's overly verbose Prime. The story slows too much. Roberts could say more with just a bit less.

This is only an occasional complaint, because we get some very well-paced scenes with Ironfist and with Rodimus that use space well. But man, this comic is text-heavy and that's one reason why it's tough for me to get friends into it. The rundown of the team on page 2 feels a bit overlong. Skids' first caption and Windcharger's second caption could go. Average panels per page on both dialogue and action sequences are 7-8. Action sequences were well done here for the most part, like Ratchet's great three-panel drop of the Matrix, but in other places, I needed more room. Prime's drive right through the center of a Decepticon on 17 required a half-page shot at least.

We're getting the other side of the coin from the horrific Bendis school of minimal dialogue that has taken over comics. Cut a bit more, James. Let it breathe. But don't space it out. And ffs, give us a trade paperback with some of these original scripts so we can read the cut stuff! Everyone wins.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:51 am

snarl wrote: And my ballbag, my old ballbag, has only gone and gone up my bum.

This exact thing happened to me. Which is something.

And that was with me turning the page actually thinking "no bloody way is it Shock..."
The thing about people getting their head and hands replaced a couple panels before it actually twigged it for me, because (like so often happens with Roberts) I stopped to think about what he meant, what the significance of the word empurata was (because as I think we've learned by now, lazy writing is not an accusation you can easily throw at Roberts).
So I was sitting there going "Huh, Whirl wanted his hands back, so THAT'S what that was, I never got that. And he's got a cyclops head, like that dude complaining. Wonder if he got that because of something he did earlier? Wonder if Glitch was a troublemaker? Need to go back and read his introduction. So all TFs with gun-arms or cyclops heads were punish - OH SHI-"

Love those moments, when the writer out-thinks you but takes you along step by step. Makes you appreciate the skill involved.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:07 am

Best First wrote:HOLY. ****ING. ****

Best ending ever.

Also Milne has hust gone off the chart.

Basically i am just cackling to myself with happiness.

What Besty said. I'm still getting my head around it all, listening to the Underbase podcast (that dude really does sound like me, which is a bit weird) and it's just incredible. What a reveal. And it's dark stuff as well. Empurata's about one of the most horrific concepts in Transformers, I'll never look at Whirl or Shockers (or Glitch, I suppose) in the same way again. My mind is blown, frankly.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:39 pm

Absolutely stellar

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:05 pm

Just gold.

Thinking about Whirl gave me a sad

surely these things are reversible though?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:22 am

Okay, now I've had time to think about this for a bit, so...

Who knows?

Shockwave isn't a low-profile Decepticon, and though he's unrecognisable as the senator, he hasn't changed his name.

This is where it gets tricky with the narrative flow as well - we know that Ratchet, Skids, Prowl and Chromedome all met the senator and Ratchet even tells the others about how he and Orion went to meet him. Now he didn't use the senator's name, but is that because they all know who he's talking about, or because he doesn't want the secret getting out? When Tailgate's asking questions he (conveniently) doesn't ask who the senator was because he was altogether more impressed by Orion Pax, but what about Swerve? Considering the senator is such a big part of the story, why doesn't anyone seem to have any questions about him?

I think it's inconceivable that present-day OP doesn't know about Shockwave, and that probably goes for Prowl and Ratchet too. With his experience of Empurata and his proximity to the events, I'd say Whirl might have a fair idea, while Rewind's historical analysis and Rung's long-standing ubiquity put them in the running too. Skids, well, who knows what he does or doesn't remember. What about Jhiaxus, though? Or Megatron, for that matter?

I think it's pretty fair to say that the Shockwave-related fun in MTMTE is only just beginning. That Symbol Ship the Scavengers found (and just happened to mention that Shockwave used to command one) has got to be significant and...huh, I was going to say I bet it was Shockwave's ship, but in the time it took me to type that I've now half-convinced myself it's Scorponok's. Hm.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:55 am

Im really ill at the moment can someone clarify what i just read as my is swimming..

So shockwave, built by jhiaxus, has been going about building matrix cavities into tf chests.
I.e. OP so that he can choose the next prime?

Sorry for being thick i cant think at the moment...

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:09 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:So shockwave, built by jhiaxus, has been going about building matrix cavities into tf chests.
I.e. OP so that he can choose the next prime?

He's described as Jhiaxus's best student, so I don't think he was built by him. But yeah, was definitely trying to influence the next Prime - in Chaos Theory he was very impressed by OP's speechifying and so gave him the Matrix compartment upgrade.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:16 pm

in Chaos Theory he was very impressed by OP's speechifying and so gave him the Matrix compartment upgrade.

"Smithers! I've just seen the most courageous dog on the TV! I want to make him my new executive vice president!"

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:24 pm

Im really ill at the moment can someone clarify what i just read as my is swimming..

So shockwave, built by jhiaxus, has been going about building matrix cavities into tf chests.
I.e. OP so that he can choose the next prime?

Sorry for being thick i cant think at the moment...

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:46 pm

I get the impression that the reveal was just for the benefit of the audience - the characters in question already knew. Don't forget they've had four million years of war - much worse atrocities have probably happened since then.

Edit: In fact our projected reaction to the last-page-reveal is parodied a few pages earlier when Tailgate belatedly realises Orion Pax is Optimus Prime.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:50 pm

Death's Head wrote:Edit: In fact our projected reaction to the last-page-reveal is parodied a few pages earlier when Tailgate belatedly realises Orion Pax is Optimus Prime.

Good grief, you're right! That's brilliant!

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:56 pm

Death's Head wrote:I get the impression that the reveal was just for the benefit of the audience - the characters in question already knew. Don't forget they've had four million years of war - much worse atrocities have probably happened since then.

That was my take as well, and Roberts has confirmed on Twitter that was in intent. The story was effectively based on the conceit that the reader just wasn't privy to the moments where the characters (both past and present) called him by name.

I suspect the forthcoming Pax Spotlight will deal with more of the fallout from this as it's apparently about him trying to rescue a friend.

Incidentally, the "Don't reveal their name until the last scene" thing was handled much better than in Skyfall, where it somewhat clumsily turned out Bond didn't know their name any more than the audience did despite having spent a good chunk of off screen time with them.

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:49 pm

Good grief, you're right! That's brilliant!

Can't take the credit, sadly - I read it somewhere a couple of days back and it popped back into my addled Sunday-afternoon head.

There seems to be one more part of Shadowplay to come so there may yet be something else that links Shockwave more directly to the series. I'm thinking of the symbol ship encountered by Krok and co. and it's strange cargo. Even if not, the concept of Shadowplay and the activities of the Institute(s) are obvious foreshadowing for something involving Skids, Chromedome, Overlord and Red Alert. Then there's Rung...

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:09 pm

Rewind mentions that rung has literally had contact with millions if TF across history, he knows eveeything but is never directly involved...
Is he all that he seems to be?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:18 pm

So I went back and read those two Chaos issues by Roberts. Fan-freakin-tastic, but even more so now when read in light of the Shadowplay arc. Here, I thought those two issues were some of the best I've read, and now re-reading them, they're even better than the first time.

The implications are huge. In this continuity that Roberts has crafted, Orion Pax was inspired to become the leader and hero he is today because of the insightful musings of a oppressed miner from Tarn, Megatron. Because of Megatron's understanding of the true nature of the Senate, Prime was spurred on to investigate, which he did, culminating in his forceful presentation before the Senate. There, he naively lashes out against their injustice and corruption. It was the death knell for Pax, for now Senators Proteus, Ratbat and Sentinel, threatened by Prime's revelation to the masses, intended to remove Pax from the equation. As they are planning to do this, another senator steps in and because of his political clout is able to save Pax from being sent to the Institute for reprogramming (how ironic!) Who's that bot? Senator Shockwave. A bot who not only saves Pax from his certain demise, but also reformats him to accept the Matrix, priming him to become more than he has ever been before.

In other words, the two greatest saviors of Optimus Prime are Megatron and Shockwave.

That's called having your mind blown and your TF world turned upside down.

Brilliant.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:02 am

TBH I not only went back and read Chaos Theory this weekend, I read the whole ongoing as well, in case there was anything else relevant that I've missed.

DH wrote:I get the impression that the reveal was just for the benefit of the audience - the characters in question already knew. Don't forget they've had four million years of war - much worse atrocities have probably happened since then.

You're right. Genius.

Post by **snarl** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:33 pm

I was missing / forgetting so much of the detail at the beginning, I'd got used to just tearing through comics with not so much substance.

TFwiki.net is an invaluable resource

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:52 am

snarl wrote:I was missing / forgetting so much of the detail at the beginning, I'd got used to just tearing through comics with not so much substance.

TFwiki.net is an invaluable resource

The problem is that until recent issues, wiki articles have tended to read like:

"The Institute is, uh, something from the IDW Generation 1 continuity. We don't know what it is, but it's been mentioned enough times for us to know it's going to be important, whatever it is."

or:

"Empurata may or may not have been Whirl's cellmate. We think.."

Post by **Best First** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:32 pm

Karl wrote:
Death's Head wrote:Edit: In fact our projected reaction to the last-page-reveal is parodied a few pages earlier when Tailgate belatedly realises Orion Pax is Optimus Prime.
Good grief, you're right! That's brilliant!

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Superb.

Hot Shot · Post by **Hot Shot** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:27 am

My reaction was, "Wat." No "h".

I think my dad spoiled Empire before I saw it as a child, so I think I finally had that moment.

ruby_moon · Post by **ruby_moon** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:16 am

Oh. My. Gosh.
I was reading it on the bus to class and said "What?! NO. WAY." out loud soliciting dirty looks from everyone around me.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:12 pm

Hot Shot wrote:My reaction was, "Wat." No "h".

I think my dad spoiled Empire before I saw it as a child, so I think I finally had that moment.

You're a man now! (does bar mitzvah dance)

TransFans.co.uk

MTMTE 11

Re: MTMTE 11