RiD #11

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:14 am

Seriously a juicy preview! Holy crap, this may be where the series quits ******* around and fulfills its promise.

http://www.fullmetalhero.com/content/tr ... view-5294/

Post by **snarl** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:23 am

I don't like the way every other ******* word is in bold to emphasise a point

IMO It makes it come across as melodrama - which I think is a really bad way to do TFs.

Read it quickly and it's decent... but for me the dialogue and plot... and the simplicity of the characters... feels a lot like soap opera bollocks

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:38 pm

SPOILERS, YA?

Boy, Barber picked the wrong month to end the issue with a surprise appearance by a Decepticon. Over in the MTMTE 11 thread I commented on how that issue felt lacklustre by the standards of that series. This on the other hand feels like a fairly average issue of RID, but isn't half as entertaining.

The problem is it continues to feel drawn out, how long ago did Ratbat get killed now and we're only just sort of thinking of getting some fall out from it? They're also really dragging out the Ironhide/Dinobots thing.

The wheels are turning very slowly, and with the return of Megatron and the hints laid out in forthcoming solicitations it looks like there's a very good chance we won't be getting the long promised elections at all. Which raises the very good question of:

WHAT WAS THE BLOODY POINT OF MOST OF THE LAST YEAR?

Sigh.

I also thought it was a shame Starscream was so unashamedly scheming and grandstanding, it robbed him of a lot of the ambiguity I've liked about him thus far.

The art was fine, Metalhawk on the edge was fun and Dirge just wanting to go and hide away from all this crap was neat. But still a "Get a bloody move on issue".

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:20 am

This series is trying so hard to be clever, multi-layered, and politically intriguing, and all it's doing is coming across as average boring fanfic. And I don't mean this in comparison to MTMTE. I mean this in comparison to, well, fanfic. In the end, despite all the political hooplah, we are still stuck with the inevitable "Decepticons want war again, everybody else want peace" spiel.

Seriously? We are still dealing with this four-way tug-of-war between Bumblebee/Prowl/Metalhawk/Starscream 11 issues into this? Talk about dragging the plot out. PLEASE, change the freakin scene already! Things started to get interesting with Ironhide and the Aerialbots, or when that Decepticon poet-shark showed up on the scene. Instead, this is heading into Costa territory quick. Hey, now Prowl and Starscream are teaming up! Oh boy, can't wait til Metalhawk and Bumblebee get together! Ooh, has Starscream featured with Bumblebee yet?

It's just so poorly executed. Omega Supreme shows up and then just gets blasted. Starscream's inner monologue is as cliche as his Sunbow iteration. Dirge is crawling around in the shadows like a scaredy-bot yet everyone already seems to know what he knows. Prowl continues to send Arcee to kill everybody. Bumblebee continues to jaw with Prowl about whether he likes him or not. Metalhawk is....Metalhawk, standing around doing, well, nothing of real import but commentating on the obvious.

The dialogue in this issue really is just amateurish in places. "How do you feel about Omega Supreme coming awake in your presence?" How about "How do you feel about Omega Supreme awakening in your presence?" It's little things like that which to the experienced reader pulls one right out of the story and reminds us emphatically that Barber is no Roberts or Furman.

I think it's pretty clear eleven issues in that Barber has limitations as a writer and the best we can expect to get is "B" to mostly "C-grade" material. Don't mean to be overly harsh here. But seeing as it's the top TF book in terms of sales, I figure I can be a bit more honest about it.

Give it a "C-". Below average material, plodding plotline, weak dialogue, annoying cast. Needs some serious work. Why not have Nick Roche assist?

Post by **Best First** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:58 am

I actually didn't mind this issue, the Prowl, Arcee, Starscream intrigue was pretty good and set up some interesting possibilities...

Until Megatron turned up. Which basically, as stated above, renders everything pretty pointless.

Arcee can just kill him though right? Arcee kills everyone.

Oh, and while it set's up some interesting possibilities Prowl being stupid continues to grate.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:50 pm

Best First wrote:I actually didn't mind this issue, the Prowl, Arcee, Starscream intrigue was pretty good and set up some interesting possibilities...

Until Megatron turned up. Which basically, as stated above, renders everything pretty pointless.

Arcee can just kill him though right? Arcee kills everyone.

Oh, and while it set's up some interesting possibilities Prowl being stupid continues to grate.

Pretty much this.

I really enjoyed the art in this issue too.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:17 pm

Yeah i think the art has really improved, albeit in quite a subtle way.

On a seperate note i think its a bit of a shame these comics come out on the same day - a fortnightly dose if far prefferable.

But, er, no pushing MTMTE back 6 weeks to make that work IDW.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:31 am

The art was actually by Guido, with a rather subpar inker. I love Guido. Wish he was the regular on this, though I actually enjoy Andrew a bit.

I am with Yaya on this:

Yayazorus wrote:Seriously? We are still dealing with this four-way tug-of-war between Bumblebee/Prowl/Metalhawk/Starscream 11 issues into this? Talk about dragging the plot out. PLEASE, change the freakin scene already! Things started to get interesting with Ironhide and the Aerialbots, or when that Decepticon poet-shark showed up on the scene. Instead, this is heading into Costa territory quick. Hey, now Prowl and Starscream are teaming up! Oh boy, can't wait til Metalhawk and Bumblebee get together! Ooh, has Starscream featured with Bumblebee yet?

It's really not moving along. Granted, the Knights of Cybertron story isn't moving, either, but that's because MTMTE has spent a lot of time delving into the characters and enjoying the scenery. RiD seems to be moving the plot along... but then it turns out we're actually still in the same place in the plot you thought we were before.

This issue really frustrated me because I've always assumed Starscream and Metalhawk were cooking up a little bit behind the scenes. But once we finally get some time with them here, it turns out they're completely on the surface. And Starscream's master plan consists of... cooperating with Prowl? Until he feels like betraying him?

But I wouldn't say it's in Costa territory. This series is moving too damn slow. But it's not just stalled, exploring boring territory like Costa was. It's greatly ambitious. It's got moments of wonderful stuff, like the annual and issue 2 and... uh, well, at least Wheeljack's in-character.

Barber really doesn't have a gift for language, I must say. Jack Cade (where are you these days?) rewrote his rhyme scheme for Wheelie on the IDW board, just to make the syllable count match up--never mind the iams and stress.

Barber needs to treat the TF books more like a braintrust. Simon and James (and Nick) should be editing Barber's book for him. He can obviously edit. He edits MTMTE every month. He's got the makings of a decent writer. But he needs a good editor--and it isn't himself.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:02 am

So now Ravage and Rumble are dead? What fine use of such great and iconic characters.

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:26 am

Yeah, there really needs to be some sort of happy medium between Roberts "He's dead! Oh no, twas just a flesh wound" approach and Barber's "Hi, I'm a well liked character doing something for the first time in ages... AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH" style.

I'm somewhat puzzled as to how Arcee has wound up such a Mary Drift for Barber when he didn't create her. The scene of her single handedly taking out half a dozen (more?) Decepticons whilst Prowl's team sits outside with their thumbs up their bums was the most painful part of the issue.

Anyone remember when Ultra Magnus was, just about, able to take Arcee down by himself? Is the humble robo-vagina Shockwave's secret weakness?

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:32 am

Fairly certain Ravage and Rumble aren't dead. Arcee clears it up for us:

"Looks like they're alive. Most of them anyway. I killed a couple guards for fun."

The guards in question are the ones seen crashing down in front of Rumble and Frenzy.

Also, Guido's art is great. I do feel he adds a lot to this book with his greater control of subtle expressions. Dirge actually looks scared and miserable for a change, Starscream travels the whole range from cocksure to horrified, and Arcee looks cool and sexy. Prowl's Magneto helmet is also less annoying than it has been in this book.

Barber is a very frustrating writer. He throws things in the pot here that would have been hugely helpful seven or eight issues ago - like the idea that Prowl *wanted* people to think (but not be entirely sure) that he has people assassinated, just so they're kept in check. What's the saying? "Let them hate me as long as they fear me."

Yaya's right that the four-way relationship between Starscream/Metalhawk/Prowl/Bumblebee just doesn't move on, despite it being repeatedly focused on. We get it: Metalhawk trusts Bumblebee but not Prowl, and desperately wants to believe in Starscream's reformation. Prowl distrusts MH and SS, and is playing BB, but only to keep BB's hands clean. BB doesn't know who to trust but wants to trust everyone. SS is just an opportunist, happy to make whatever deal he can with whoever ends up in charge.

This was established as far back as issue ... 3? But they're still playing it up.

And I'm very confused about where and why and how Arcee and Prowl were able to set this trap. Did they just attack the Decepticons in their own turf? In which case, how did they plant those bombs? Or were the 'Cons they headed out on some new bust? Why is the explosion suddenly right in the middle of the city/shanty town?

Someone above said that Megatron's return renders everything thus far pointless. I almost feel as if, since Barber knew this was coming, everything up until now was just treading water. He had a few major ideas - Starscream tentatively joins the new Autobot/Nail government, Prowl and Arcee covertly kill Decepticons without Bumblebee knowing, the Aerialbots are unwillingly merged into Superion - but mostly it was all keeping the plates spinning until year 2, when things would really kick off. That's why so much of the dialogue seems to be going nowhere - it was never intended to lead up to anything.

The positive side of that is that he might have things a lot more properly planned out from hereon in. Or indeed herein on.

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:08 am

I'm hoping that Megatron isn't actually the terrible "One" that solicitations for the next few issues suggest cause all sorts of trouble, it'd be nice if there's some sort of extra twist there and someone else is coming back as well.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:24 am

Jack Cade wrote:Fairly certain Ravage and Rumble aren't dead. Arcee clears it up for us:

"Looks like they're alive. Most of them anyway. I killed a couple guards for fun."

The guards in question are the ones seen crashing down in front of Rumble and Frenzy.

Here's hoping you're right, but Ravage's decapitation and Rumble's head being smashed in look pretty permanent to me. She also says that she can't tell the Decepticons apart, which seems like a cold nod towards having just killed two instantly recognisable characters. I will be quite sad if that's it for Ravage, considering James wanted him on the Lost Light.

So Prowl now works for Starscream? Is this the story of Prowl sinking into ever darker and murkier ethics? I did quite enjoy seeing things from Starscream's perspective for once and he's proving to be the best character in this, but I do agree that we've been treading water for ages now - either get on with the elections or something, this feels really unfocused.

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:27 pm

It irritates me a great deal how untouchable Arcee has become.

I find the notion that she could outsmart Shockwave (who has been established as forward-thinking, ultra-smart and exceedingly tough-to-kill) thoroughly implausible. The fact he gets taken out so easily after all that's happened previously makes the entire scene somewhat farcical.

Barber effectively makes Shockers seem somewhat of a douche with this issue - this is the con who came up with the ore-seeding process isn't it? Yet the best he can think of to restart the war is steal a ship and set a few bombs? It's a bit farfetched if you ask me!
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Post by **snarl** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:54 pm

Mr_Tigg wrote:It irritates me a great deal how untouchable Arcee has become.

I find the notion that she could outsmart Shockwave (who has been established as forward-thinking, ultra-smart and exceedingly tough-to-kill) thoroughly implausible. The fact he gets taken out so easily after all that's happened previously makes the entire scene somewhat farcical.

This.

It's like she's ******' Buffy

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:55 pm

Mr_Tigg wrote: Barber effectively makes Shockers seem somewhat of a douche with this issue - this is the con who came up with the ore-seeding process isn't it? Yet the best he can think of to restart the war is steal a ship and set a few bombs? It's a bit farfetched if you ask me!

Yes, thank you, another thing that has really bothered me with the writing. Shockwave's portrayal. He comes across as totally inept here and the way he plans to restart the war is akin to a Sunbow plot from Megatron. And he gets thwarted in no less a cartoonish way, with some sort of glass-shard throwing bomb. They even give him a head-leaning 'huh?' face shot panel before he and the others (including Soundwave, who is a clever bot in his own right) get blasted.

While we're on the subject of getting blasted by bombs, I disliked even more Omega Supreme's getting bomb-blasted. Here's a guy who was becoming one of the more intriguing characters in IDW TF comic lore, a legend and star of the annual, and he almost gets offed by a single Decepticon bomb. Lame.

Just not feeling it. As bumblebeemus says, Barber's got some grand ideas, but I've been calling for some assistance for the guy since the beginning. Barber and Roche as a writing team would work much better.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:03 pm

How did they even plant bombs on Omega? Was he snoozing?

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:10 am

The thing with this book's plot just being a political tug of war every issue...well, that appears to be the point of the book. Like, I might be misreading it entirely here, but this book established itself as a political thriller straight away, and has kept up that angle for every issue. Even the Ironhide nonsense is tied into it (though the pacing for that plot is atrocious, I think it's misfired badly, thus hurting the perception of the book's overall plot.)

What I guess I'm saying, and I don't even consider this to be defending the book as I don't especially like RiD, is that the book is what it is. Political thrillers get their awesomeness generally in two ways; making the reader somehow relate to every camp's position and by creating byzantine connections between everyone and their motives; the tangled web.

The book is fairly successful in this, in my opinion. I'm happy it exists, as it's just nice to know there's a fricking Transformers comic in existence that has aspirations to a different genre of story.

However, I think it has had problems since inception with its focus, the quality of writing and misfiring sub-plots. The return of Megatron could only ever really be a cliffhanger, and I guess him walking out of the desert is more interesting than a revelation he has been behind the scenes for ages or something (such an image indicates that his return might lead to a new direction for the character) but yeah, placing it exactly here, in the culmination of this issues's story doesn't increase the OMG DILEMMA feeling that this book should create in the reader as well as the characters.

The increasing gaps in the ability of a sensible reader to accept the things that happen in the book is a notable concern in my opinion, rather than just dissatisfaction at the pacing. It indicates a lack of thoroughness to the writing that unsettles me. Doesn't help when it's up against a sister book whose writer appears to think around all the angles of every choice he makes.

RiD is always a little flat and in danger of becoming irritating. I read it because it's unusual, as a TF comic and a comic in general. But I don't look forward to it.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:44 pm

T'was okay, although a couple of gripes:

1. Megatron. Oy.

2. So Shockwave was able to come up with a huge, complicated plan with many moving parts running over several months... but did not think about an assassin just turning up and setting a bomb off? One-eyed bozo.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:40 pm

King Mob wrote:Like, I might be misreading it entirely here, but this book established itself as a political thriller straight away, and has kept up that angle for every issue.

It's never been much of a political thriller though. Surely that genre centers around intricate machinations, surprising gambits and forged and broken alliances, but the set-up in RiD remains fairly static. Prowl is the only bot who has any particular hidden agenda, and even that's not very well hidden.

It's been much closer to a sort of frontier lawman-type saga - bickering sheriffs trying to run a small town.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:30 am

Jack Cade wrote:
King Mob wrote:Like, I might be misreading it entirely here, but this book established itself as a political thriller straight away, and has kept up that angle for every issue.
It's never been much of a political thriller though. Surely that genre centers around intricate machinations, surprising gambits and forged and broken alliances, but the set-up in RiD remains fairly static. Prowl is the only bot who has any particular hidden agenda, and even that's not very well hidden.

It's been much closer to a sort of frontier lawman-type saga - bickering sheriffs trying to run a small town.

Perhaps. I'm comparing it to genre comics, not the genre in general. I think it's fairly reasonable to give it that classification, it's just that it's shallow and unambitious.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:09 am

bumblemusprime wrote:The art was actually by Guido

oops - that explains it.

Pops and i discussed this over a beer last night - i think the big problem with this book is you are not really rooting for anyone. Everyone is a knob, but not even in an entertaining way.

I think Mob is right - you can also see this as being pictched as Game of Thrones (sans the nailing) but it just lacks the characterisation, panache and imagination to make it work.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:37 pm

Best First wrote:
bumblemusprime wrote:The art was actually by Guido
oops - that explains it.

Pops and i discussed this over a beer last night - i think the big problem with this book is you are not really rooting for anyone. Everyone is a knob, but not even in an entertaining way.

I think Mob is right - you can also see this as being pictched as Game of Thrones (sans the nailing) but it just lacks the characterisation, panache and imagination to make it work.

Zactly. If you got equal time with Metalhawk, Starscream, Prowl, Arcee and Bumblebee and each one had a raft of schemes going plus major personality problems/tragic flaws, then you'd have the Game of Thrones comparison.

Post by **snarl** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:44 pm

The other thing me and besters got up to was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83EkgWT4X7c

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:59 pm

Dammit now I have tea on my laptop

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:31 pm

Oh yeah, closer inspection reveals the guards that Arcee killed were Triggerhappy and Blot. Even if Ravage and Rumble are salvaged that's still two fewer Decepticons to write stories about. So far this series we've lost:

Ratbat
Skydive
Sunstorm
Hook
Scavenger
Long Haul
Bonecrusher
Mixmaster
Bombshell
Blot
Triggerhappy

That's one named Decepticon killed per issue so far. Plus, by extension Devastator and probably Abominus (unless they do the "dead leg" trick again), Turmoil and his whole crew (captured, rather than killed, but taken out of the picture), the Reflectors (sent back in time to die), maybe Ravage and Rumble, and now Soundwave, Shockwave and anyone left of any importance have been spirited away to a "black room".

It just strikes me that there's a good story to be told here, but pointlessly killing off all the Decepticons until there's no-one interesting or threatening left really isn't the way to do it, and the "anyone can die" atmosphere is seriously undermined by the fact that the only named Autobot casualty I can think of was a non-toy redshirt Aerialbot who might as well have been called "Lucky" and carried a picture of his sweetheart back home.

Comparing the way that Roberts treats Flywheels and Misfire compared to Barber's Triggerhappy and Blot here is an abject lesson in characterisation. I wasn't half as annoyed at Flywheels's death as I have been by those in RID because through him we learned a ton of stuff and he had a chance to shine. If all Barber can do is kill off characters for "dramatic impact" I'll probably drop RID altogether, as it irritates me more than anything.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:40 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Oh yeah, closer inspection reveals the guards that Arcee killed were Triggerhappy and Blot. Even if Ravage and Rumble are salvaged that's still two fewer Decepticons to write stories about. So far this series we've lost:
Ratbat

Skydive

Sunstorm

Hook

Scavenger

Long Haul

Bonecrusher

Mixmaster

Bombshell

Blot

Triggerhappy

Sunstorm? When did he die? Actually, when was he even in this at all?

Anyway, yeah, to kill off the Constructicons in such a pointless way was ludicrous. Devestator in my book is a Transformers staple. If he goes out, it better be in a big way. The Constructicons just play too big a role in things. They're not just guys that transform into a strong but dumb force of nature. They are experts in construction and creation, a valuable asset to the Decepticon cause. Yet, Barber so casually offs them. Ridiculous. Same with Ravage. You just don't do Ravage like that. Ravage is the master, the master, of stealth. If anything, he should have been the one to sniff Arcee out. And his counterpart Soundwave? Dude can hear a pin drop yadda yadda. Doesn't matter to Barber.

Bottom line, Arcee has been relegated to plot device. What would have been stronger writing is that if, when she tried to take out Shockwave and Soundwave, she was thoroughly thwarted. Kind of like the bully who keeps picking on kids until he runs into a bigger fish. But no dice.

The Ratbat death was well done. I mean, really, that's all Barber needed to set the tone of things. He had a dark past we were familiar with and he was somewhat fleshed out before he bought it. He should have stopped there.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:07 pm

Yaya wrote:Sunstorm? When did he die? Actually, when was he even in this at all?

Issue #4 - he was one of Bombshell's goons, then Arcee put her sword through his head with a quip.

Otherwise I'm pretty sure I agree with everything you posted. I think a large part of the problem is that it's very rare to find anyone who writes Decepticons particularly well - and I think I'd include Furman in that as RG1 is equally guilty of relegating the B-list 'Cons to literally nothing more than zombie cannon fodder. Not that Furman isn't good at writing the characters on the cusp of darkness - Grimlock, Carnivac, Scorponok, Thunderwing and so on - but it's so rare to spend some quality time with the bad guys I didn't realise how much I appreciated the Scavengers two-parter when I read it. I've read it a few more times since then.

How much fun would one issue of this political thriller have been if told through the eyes of Ravage the super-spy, lurking in the corners, listening in and adjusting his allegiances accordingly? Or if Bombshell's plans had extended beyond "mind-controlling Dirge and Sunstorm" and extended to, say, influencing Metalhawk before Prowl found him out and offed him? Or if Soundwave and Shockwave had er, done or said anything of note? Aside from Screamer (and occasionally Dirge and Swindle) there aren't any Decepticons on the regular cast and with the return of Megs all we're going to get is another rehash of the Megatron/Starscream dynamic that I really don't think is going to offer any great insights. Hell, even a few scenes of Apeface and Hun-Grrr trying to adapt to peacetime by setting up a fruit and veg stall down Iacon market (with hilarious consequences) would be giving the Decepticons a bit more dignity than this. Oh, but we do get Sky-Byte, the new character absolutely no-one was clamouring for, doing poetry with Jazz.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:15 pm

Yaya wrote:Bottom line, Arcee has been relegated to plot device. What would have been stronger writing is that if, when she tried to take out Shockwave and Soundwave, she was thoroughly thwarted. Kind of like the bully who keeps picking on kids until he runs into a bigger fish. But no dice.

This. This this this this this.

So many times my dramatic senses are tingling for something in this series and it don't happen.

Also, this:

Emvee wrote:Otherwise I'm pretty sure I agree with everything you posted.

When Yaya and Emvee unite, it is time to listen.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:26 am

When Yaya and Emvee unite, it is time to look out the window and enjoy the beautiful mushroom clouds.