More Than Meets The Eye 2012 Annual

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:23 am

bumblemusprime wrote:Swerve's question is "Why does something seem to intervene just at the moment I am having a moral AND physical crisis?"

Now I must admit that James is pushing some of my writer-love buttons. Swerve was previously an entertaining but one-note character as far as I've seen. He's gotten depth, and with that depth comes danger.

See, for me Swerve jumping to the completely unsupported conclusion that "Primus did it" at the moment of his moral and physical crisis just reminds me of the people who, after four hours on the operating table, praise god for saving their lives. Nothing to do with the team of medics who have just spent four hours performing life-saving surgery, or indeed Brainstorm and his miniaturisation gun. It's the classic misfiring of the instinct for pattern recognition, ascribing credit to supernatural entities, that forms the basis of all religion. But I definitely wouldn't call it depth. What's the complete opposite of depth?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:33 am

Reading this issue gave me flashbacks to old .com/.net forum discussions.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:15 am

Okay, things I liked about this issue:

Every second of Ultra Magnus on-page. Especially his interaction with Atomizer after his comments on the crew manifest in issue #1. Ultra Magnus was sublime throughout.
Whirl. Whirl is just incredible. Whirl channelling Bender is brilliant, and I could read an entire comic of Whirl taunting Drift. Or Whirl taunting anyone, for that matter.
Chromedome and Rewind. See, when I first read this issue, I thought the Shermans would be all up in arms about the implied, er, closeness of their relationship but thankfully, all I've seen are a few comments like "they're like an old married couple, sweet!" Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but if that's a direction Roberts takes then I'd be quite happy with it.
Cyclonus. He's one of my favourites aboard the Lost Light and it's great to see him in the thick of the action again, plus he gets to reveal the new origin myth, which is obviously going to be fundamental to whatever happens from here. I love seeing him looming and grimacing at everything, it reminds me of Floro Dery's original inspiration for his design, a "small-time demon".

Huh, at this point I was going to link to Cyclonus's teaser image for the series, but I've found them all as a single image again here and reading the others adds a totally different spin, maybe, on what I've written so far...but anyway, what it says about Cyclonus (assuming it's not misdirection) does mean I sit up and pay attention whenever he gets involved.

In light of the above, I hope Chromedome's tagline doesn't refer to Rewind. More likely Rodimus forcing him to use his "skills" after so long in rehab?

And Swerve...doesn't know. Hm. Not sure what to make of that in the light of this issue. I'll come back to that.

More things I liked about this issue:
Rodimus, his speech, his whole attitude.
Jackpot running a book on the speech.
The new origin story, with its lovely art and colouring. Lots of Metrotitans. Backstory tying the Matrix, Vector Sigma and Rossum's Trinity together. Lots of food for thought there.
The Galactic Council. Fleshlings in hats.
Rewind, generally.
Ratchet, obviously.
Skids kicking arse.
The Red Dwarf joke.

Things I didn't like aside from Swerve on page 39:

All the stupid little errors. This issue is crammed with them in the colouring, art and script, and it makes for a disjointed read. There are lots of these: I've added a further two to the wiki while writing this and I'm contemplating a third. The whole thing seems very rushed.
The sometimes very sketchy art. It's like they couldn't get a tracer and went with the pencils in places.

Post by **snarl** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:27 pm

The line art is by 2 people though, as is the colouring.

That's the problem imo.

The first few pages I personally think are really good - different, but really good. And when I saw the preview but had yet to see the whole issue I was a bit nonplussed to see posts from several people saying the art was a bit... gash.

But basically I think the first few pages have the good illustrator and colourist paired together... But after that when they're not, it's a bit hit and miss.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:13 pm

Yeah, comparing page 35 with page 37 is like comparing apples and oranges.

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:12 pm

James Roberts goes through the comic page by page on the Underbase, I've not had chance to listen myself yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if he sheds more light on his thinking on the theological points we've been debating:

http://theunderbase.libsyn.com/the-unde ... eye-annual

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:23 am

Well, I listened to it and while I'm largely in agreement with the way he dealt with Swerve's character arc - his refusal to risk someone else's life at Rodimus's request a second time leads to a redemption for him. But when Roberts talks about Swerve's speech to Rung on p39 he says that he wanted to have another believer alongside Drift on the crew and it seems like he more or less picked Swerve at random - it could have been Grapple in that scene and it wouldn't really have changed anything. He also mentions that outside of the annual it's not something that Swerve will really talk about again, which for me makes it a pointlessly annoying character development.

Eh, whatever. I'm sure I'll find another character that I like.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:46 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Well, I listened to it and while I'm largely in agreement with the way he dealt with Swerve's character arc - his refusal to risk someone else's life at Rodimus's request a second time leads to a redemption for him. But when Roberts talks about Swerve's speech to Rung on p39 he says that he wanted to have another believer alongside Drift on the crew and it seems like he more or less picked Swerve at random - it could have been Grapple in that scene and it wouldn't really have changed anything. He also mentions that outside of the annual it's not something that Swerve will really talk about again, which for me makes it a pointlessly annoying character development.

Eh, whatever. I'm sure I'll find another character that I like.

I may be projecting my own writerly instincts onto Roberts, but it seems to me that he works hard to deliberately break the character modes he imposes--Magnus, for instance, seemed in danger of becoming a punchline in the first part of this issue, and by the end was a considerably deep, important character. Haven't gotten to the Swerve bit yet, though, but very impressed by his thoughts on Magnus. Good balance of a character's strengths and weaknesses.

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:58 pm

I thought his rational for Swerve made sense- That he wanted a "Normal" representation of a religious person (as opposed to the borderline Jehovah's Witness knocking on your door nature of Drift). His religious side not defining him or being overt was effectively the point, most religious people aren't full on God botherers in the same way most of us atheists aren't soulless hell bound freaks.

And whilst it could easily have been any character, in terms of economy of storytelling in an issue that's going to deal with Swerve's guilt over Rung regardless having it focus on his faith as well rather than creating a separate subplot for, say, Trailbreaker, is understandable.

And even though his idea of Swerve is he's not someone who would talk about this sort of thing normally, I'd be amazed and disappointed if it's completely ignored from here on in. At some point they'll be catching up with the Knights and likely exploring some of these ideas of faith once again, with Swerve set up to represent one particular aspect of that it would be odd if he doesn't do so again when we find out what's really going on with those guys.

Amidst the other stuff... though he's trying to be tactful I got the impression Roberts' wasn't any more impressed with the art than most of us seem to be be.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:26 am

I rather liked the way James broke down Ratchet's explanation of Drift's faith. Amazing how completely Ratchet deconstructs it as a crutch, keeping Drift alive with the hope of some forgiveness he knows he can never really earn.

That was the highlight of that Very Long Podcast. Someone needs to tell the Underbase about sound editing software, and one hour being an ideal podcast length... okay, I don't mind that much when it's just James talking, but I've never made it through most of their material.

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:33 am

Yeah, the main reason I gave up listening regularly to Moonbase 2 is the length (they seem to take about an hour before they get to any Transformers content, I don't think they need to establish the hosts that strongly).

Being more into the comic stuff I do usually make it all the way through Underbase each week, but that's helped by me being able to listen at work, I can see why peeps who don't have 8 hours of listening time free every night would find it a slog to find the time for.

Mind, the counter argument the dear departed Collings and Herrin podcast used to use when people complained of the length was "We do it for free and no one is forcing anyone to listen to the whole thing in one go..." so I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:06 pm

Only one thing really niggled about this.

On one of the panels on the planet, Swerve appears to be standing next to Roddy, whilst in previous and subsequent ones he is on the ship talking to Ore.
In THAT SAME panel, The Rodster's lines sound like they were written for Swerve. "Crusadercons" and all. Has he completely internalised him to the point he now hallucinates Swerve's presence and vocalises what he imagines swerve would say?

IS THIS AN EXAMPLE OF 19:80.4?

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:13 pm

As for the TF creation story here? Didn't like it. seemed really weak. HOWEVER, I DO like that at my count we now have at least 4 different TF religions mentioned in the IDWverse since it began. That alone makes it more believable and realistic in the same way multiple languages did.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:36 pm

What was weak about it?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:55 am

Sunyavadin wrote:On one of the panels on the planet, Swerve appears to be standing next to Roddy, whilst in previous and subsequent ones he is on the ship talking to Ore.
In THAT SAME panel, The Rodster's lines sound like they were written for Swerve. "Crusadercons" and all. Has he completely internalised him to the point he now hallucinates Swerve's presence and vocalises what he imagines swerve would say?

IS THIS AN EXAMPLE OF 19:80.4?

He addresses it in the podcast as "problematic". Swerve should be Chromedome, but otherwise the dialogue is correctly attributed in that Rodimus is intentionally calling back to what Swerve said in issue #2. That Swerve was drawn in by mistake left the panel "confusing".

Sunyavadin wrote:I thought his rational for Swerve made sense- That he wanted a "Normal" representation of a religious person (as opposed to the borderline Jehovah's Witness knocking on your door nature of Drift). His religious side not defining him or being overt was effectively the point, most religious people aren't full on God botherers in the same way most of us atheists aren't soulless hell bound freaks.

And whilst it could easily have been any character, in terms of economy of storytelling in an issue that's going to deal with Swerve's guilt over Rung regardless having it focus on his faith as well rather than creating a separate subplot for, say, Trailbreaker, is understandable.

I understand all that and it's logical to me as a writer, but it just feels wrong somehow. Swerve going from not being overtly religious - and even a few pages before with Ore, he's talking about "something out there" - to full-on "Primus intervened and saved us all" seems over the top. Roberts admits that it's Drift's theory that we're hearing from Swerve and maybe that's the problem - it sounds exactly like the kind of crap Drift comes out with all the time, yet this time Swerve is espousing it as the truth. So from now on, Swerve's character has the added dimension of being "that guy who agrees with Drift but doesn't speak up when others can hear". Ugh.

And I'm expected to believe that the character whose nickname is "Shut the hell up" and who has previously been characterised as having little-to-no filter between his brain and mouth never talks about the miracles he believes in? I'm just not buying it. Grapple? Hound? Sure, no problem, but it's not Swerve. If he'd given a watered-down version of Drift's theory, something a little less literal, then maybe it would have worked for me but as it stands it seems like Swerve is a raging closet theist who doesn't have the courage to be open about his convictions.

Yaya wrote:Swerve could see it this way, as I do personally:

What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.-Albert Einstein

and

"The more I study science, the more I believe in God"-Albert Einstein

I know I probably shouldn't, but this came through my inbox recently:

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends" - Albert Einstein

(http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/0 ... ng-chosen/)