Regeneration #82 Review (SPOILERS)

[Hound]

I'm at Auto Assembley and had the privilege to look through Wildman's pencils for Regeneration 1 and they are gorgeous. I wish I could take some pictures to show you all.

[Kaylee]

I thought Grimlock was pretty spot-on. I must confess that I've missed the great lemon over the years, it's great to have him back.

The artwork is... peculiar. Some of it is great, some of it is worse than amateurs on DeviantArt. I don't really know enough about it to comment what the cause is, although I think the colouring style may have a lot to answer for.

This.

**** me.

The "abysmal" / "haven't seen artwork this bad..." comments are for me ******* ridiculous. You might have noticed they've really got on my tits!

Go back and look at the old Wildman issues. The close ups were always mustard (I personally love the scruffy TF look) but often the wide angles did leave a bit to be desired.

I personally can overlook it, I often find the hyper detail in all panels a bit distracting. Case in point, Milne's stuff now he's toned it down is a lot less distracting. It's quality.

By coincidence I had a little look at TWW preview by Don, he hits it spot on there with the background / wide angle shots.

I can see an argument that Wildman's stuff might be a bit of an acquired taste, it is very organic looking. I must say, though, that when he gets it right, and he does get it right a lot, it looks very nice. I like the human-looking TF faces, I think they are very emotive.

Looking at some of the weaker panels, it looks almost like they were originally very 'small' and then photoshopped up bigger and coloured, if that makes sense.

I wonder if it would be fair to say that if this comic was coloured and assembled without a computer and copious Adobe products, AW's art might be better served?

I'm probably talking rubbish, in fairness.

[Yaya]

It's not the style that's the problem here. Though I never was a big fan of Wildman's fleshy faces, I'm glad they brought him back. It had to be Senior or Wildman or bust, IMO. I'll always prefer Senior, but the problem here is that Andy's lost some sense of proportion and you can tell at some points he rushed things.

For every 'classic Andy' panel, there's a "whoa, got a little careless there" one. But like I said, except for preferring Geoff, I wouldn't change a thing. Not one thing. We got Simon. We got Wildman. What the freak more could we ask for on a continuation of Marvel's run?

I gripe only because this Andy is not 100% the 'real Andy'. And because I love to complain. It's just in my nature.

Also, we should be fair. We've aged twenty-something years, and so has Andy. It's not easy to draw later in life as one did 'in their prime (pun intended)' No doubt, I think it's probably natural to lose some finesse, much like any artist or professional athlete would with the passing of years. Considering this, I'm somewhat impressed that's he's even this good this much later.

Hell, I'm just thankful to God to be alive twenty-five years later to enjoy this!

[bumblemusprime]

I got this and enjoyed it a hellllllll of a lot more than #81. Story was some awesome nail-biting Wreckers suspense, running around on a planet with a truly psycho Megatron. Loved Ratchet as a hood ornament. I guess Megatron got the best of that contest after they were separated. Loved the zombies.

I warmed to the art a bit this time, in contrast to Ya. The action sequences were a lot more enjoyable.

[inflatable dalek]

I'm at Auto Assembley and had the privilege to look through Wildman's pencils for Regeneration 1 and they are gorgeous. I wish I could take some pictures to show you all.

I think my favourite sight so far was being at Jeff Anderson's table whilst James Roberts was buying up all his Enemy Action art (I am not stalking James Roberts).

If you see a tall Jeff-Goldblum ish fellow in either a dark striped shirt or a red Action Master Prime (Wildman art funnily enough) with a beard, glasses and a tendency not to always be looking in the right direction, say hi.

And in terms of perspective, no one in this thread has been as harsh on Wildman's Regen work as the man himself was on his GI Joe stint during the panel. But more on the tidbits from that when I return.

[inflatable dalek]

Damn, why is everyone hating on this comic? I have no problem with the art. It is what it is: Shiny Wildman Art. Wildman and Senior are like the Kirby of TF comics IMO, so I don't ever really see me complaining about the art.

Well again, I'm not hating, it's just very average. Some nice stuff, some bad stuff (for me Wildman's art on this issue) and enough in the middle to make the whole thing average out as "OKish".

As much as I could remember from the panels is in this thread here, and includes some comments from Wildman that possibly explain why he art isn't up to what I'd consider his best standards here [Contains spoilers for IDW comics published so far this year and hints for the future]:

http://tfarchive.com/community/showthre ... post721067

So NO, you can't get the band back together again and get lightning in a jar like you're making cookies. But (to follow the Sir Paul analogy) we're all Beatles fans from way back in the day (although I supposed Simon is more John to Bob's Paul?), so even if it's a pale copy (and that's underestimating where this comic may go), it's still a copy dammit, and that's more than we thought we'd ever get before. And really ID, you undercut your whole grouchy, pessimist POV if all it takes is Ratbat instead of Starscream to make you go 180.

Bob is John surely? Being effectively "Dead" in terms of new comics rather than constantly being wheeled out for every Transformers comic ever?

And Yomotov is Ringo of course, not even the best colourist on the American comic (I may break this analogy by the end).

And sure, it may surprise us. I think it's perfectly fair for us all to have expectations of what that comic will be (either good or bad) but if there's something unexpectedly good (or horrendously bad for that matter) that shakes me from my "Okish" verdict so far I'll be high fiving with the rest of you.

Another experiment in Paul McCartney/Regeneration analogies: See, it's not exactly like the Hey Jude thing, becuase really it's like hearing that the song Hey Jude, which you really loved as a kid, is actually a minute longer than anyone knew, and now you're going to hear the rest. Now if Regeneration IS Hey Jude, and we've waited decades for a whole bunch of blathering "Na na na, na na na na, na na na na, Hey Jude," then that sucks.

Surely it's more like Paul going "Well, we'd had some ideas for making Hey Jude a minute longer at the time but never got round to it because Ringo had to go shag Barbara Bach so I've made it now". Considering the chomping at the bit from Beatles fans over him swapping the order of Lennon and McCartney in the credits on certain songs I can't imagine anyone wanting the man with the amazing living hair even trying that.

Though of course, whatever they may think of his Olympics performance and the tendency for anyone organising a big concert to just go "Macca... Hey Jude... that'll fill an hour" I'm sure most of his fans would, if they met him, still shake him by the hand and say thanks for the work he did at his peak (Frog Chorus, Spies Like Us and so on).

James Roberts is of course The Arctic Monkeys at the Olympics singing Come Together, fresher, more vibrant and taking old ideas he loved from his childhood and doing new things with them. [Analogy.... BROKEN. Badly I think. Anyone know a band that doesn't annoy me that does good interesting Beatles style music?]

Plus, all the waiting has made it so I'm not sure there would ever actually be a comic that would satisfy us. I mean, if you told us in 1997 there was a continuation of the Marvel storyline and it featured both the Wreckers and Megatron ruling over a barren earth on a battle cycle with Ratchet's head as a hood ornament, I think many people here might have peed their pants. But now we're all old and more concerned with how Earth's destruction affects the Autobot's moral superiority.

That's part of the problem though. Since the original issue 80 we've had:

Another Time and Place: Officially licensed continuation involving the same writer;
G2: Officially licensed continuation involving the same writer;
Allignment: Unofficial continuation involving the same writer;
Classics: Official continuation with new writers.

This is the 5th time in one shape or another either Furman, Hasbro or both have picked up where they left off. Compare that to GI Joe, which has only had two continuations of the Marvel run since it ended (and as Hama wasn't originally involved with Devil's Due from the off, the IDW RAH can be more effectively promoted as his "Unfulfilled Vision").

I think a large part of Furman's general weakness in the last decade is he's no longer just trying to write good stories, or even good Transformers stories. He's self consciously trying to write good Simon Furman style stories. Trying to give people want they want isn't a terrible thing, but it has made him seem like a parody of himself at times.

Now, that's not to say that it's a simple as old stuff GOOD new stuff BAD. Both Furman and Wildman had their off days in the original run (unsurprisingly for freelancers doing a huge amount of work, Wildman himself regrets doing black and white strips at the same time he was doing the US book as he thinks they wound up crap), and moments of the old charm since things have come back. The ratio is badly inverted though (for me anyway).

Whilst listening to the Underbase review of this comic I thought they made two really good points, one a positive, one a negative:

Positive: Megatron's all out conquest of Earth does more with the idea and more quickly in one issue than AHM did in 12. OK, that might sound like damning with faint praise (my left buttock has done more with this idea than AHM did) but it still shows a nice fast pace and no nonsense attitude.

Negative: One thing we've been told repeatedly is this book needs to be accessible for new readers, people who've never read an 80's TF book should be able to pick it up and enjoy it as much as we old farts. That's been the driving force behind several of the decisions made so far.

So what on Earth are these hyperthetical new readers going to make of Circuit Smasher, a deeply silly looking character deliberately drawn in the Liefeld style, which more people seem to extremely derisive of now? Isn't that going to put them off the book right with issue 2? Unless you're a fan with a working knowledge of Circuit Breaker that got to be a serious "Huh?" moment (indeed, much involving her gets that reaction from fans anyway... Incidentally, to recap something mentioned briefly in the above link, Furman insists IDW can't use her and he wouldn't want too if he could).

[bumblemusprime]

ID, I should really reply to your thread on the Archive there. But I won't. I will reply here.

Roberts was a cop? I've only talked with one real life British cop, but it's a hard profession to fall in and out of. Guy's got to have an interesting story., methinks.

I truly loved the Furmination years of 2006-2008, actually, and I'll go as far as saying that they were up there with his 80s and 90s stuff easily. So when you paint Furman as off his game in the last decade or so, I just don't see it. Furmination was a brilliant run of stories. Started slow, had its flaws, was screwed up at the end by editorial meddling, but from start to finish they're space operatic fun in the grandest tradition.

[inflatable dalek]

ID, I should really reply to your thread on the Archive there. But I won't. I will reply here.

Roberts was a cop? I've only talked with one real life British cop, but it's a hard profession to fall in and out of. Guy's got to have an interesting story., methinks.

That's what the script mentions anyway (the full quote is in one of my replies).

I truly loved the Furmination years of 2006-2008, actually, and I'll go as far as saying that they were up there with his 80s and 90s stuff easily. So when you paint Furman as off his game in the last decade or so, I just don't see it. Furmination was a brilliant run of stories. Started slow, had its flaws, was screwed up at the end by editorial meddling, but from start to finish they're space operatic fun in the grandest tradition.

That's cool though, if we all thought the same it'd be a pretty boring discussion board. This way if we get nothing else from the comics, we get fun debates.

I should say, despite having a few digs at Wildman there he was actually much more his old wry sardonic self rather than the genuinely grumpy and bored of Transformers chap of the last two years (announcing his retirement from TF's forever two years ago, being genuinely pissed off at the amount of arm twisting it took to get Hasbro to want to do Regeneration One last year- though that was hilarious for Furman's face).

He just seems more up for it than I've seen him in a long time, so I'm not sure what caused the dip this month.

[snarl]

I'll always prefer Senior, but the problem here is that Andy's lost some sense of proportion and you can tell at some points he rushed things.

For every 'classic Andy' panel, there's a "whoa, got a little careless there" one.

Hmm.

I wholeheartedly agree.

wtf is going on.

[Shanti418]

I'll always prefer Senior, but the problem here is that Andy's lost some sense of proportion and you can tell at some points he rushed things.

For every 'classic Andy' panel, there's a "whoa, got a little careless there" one.

Hmm.

I wholeheartedly agree.

wtf is going on.

Perhaps, but I still go with your original point (and especially after looking at the Marvel run again): Wildman's big scenes, where proportion is more essential, were never his strong suit.

I largely have nothing to disagree with RE: that large post ID, but let me continue the conversation:

That's part of the problem though. Since the original issue 80 we've had:

Another Time and Place: Officially licensed continuation involving the same writer;
G2: Officially licensed continuation involving the same writer;
Allignment: Unofficial continuation involving the same writer;
Classics: Official continuation with new writers.

This is the 5th time in one shape or another either Furman, Hasbro or both have picked up where they left off. Compare that to GI Joe, which has only had two continuations of the Marvel run since it ended (and as Hama wasn't originally involved with Devil's Due from the off, the IDW RAH can be more effectively promoted as his "Unfulfilled Vision").

AT&P: An epilogue, and although official, also non-canon under the "No UK" continuity rules here.
G2: True. Many fans loved this and wanted it folded into ReGen. But you can't put this under "he's already done it" because IIRC, there was a large (fictional) gap of time between end of G1 and beginning of G2, no? To me, this is like saying Star Trek: TNG has already covered the end of TOS (I assume we're all nerdy enough to understand these basic acronyms).
Alignment: Not only non-canon, but again with a UK release, this was ignored by most fans (to say nothing of its prose style). AND it's really going for "Regenration 2", as it continues the G2 storylines.
Classics: Again, hard to come by, not popular. Comiccon or club exclusives are great, but I don't think they mean "Well, check finishing up the G1 storyline off the list!"

I think a large part of Furman's general weakness in the last decade is he's no longer just trying to write good stories, or even good Transformers stories. He's self consciously trying to write good Simon Furman style stories. Trying to give people want they want isn't a terrible thing, but it has made him seem like a parody of himself at times.

And certainly, there's some truth to that. As I mentioned earlier, I just went back and re read most of Marvel G1 US, so the inherent cheesiness and operatic nature of his dialogue is a bit clearer in my mind. BUT: Kevin Williamson, Joss Whedon, Bendis, Aaron Sorkin, Russel Davies!! Even if your writing becomes recognizable in its tone and your critics say you're just spitting out a certain voice you're famous for, that doesn't mean that it doesn't sell or isn't critically lauded.

Switching over to Archive ID for a sec:

He also admits to not being obsssessed with being "On Model" as he was back in the '80's [Certainly explaining why Megatron and Springer especially suffer from very odd changing chests].

This drew a snort from me, as I (again) just reread G1 and was again annoyed when Wildman made Blaster's head visorless like the model.


TFA plus here:

Issue 83 will however involve one old [Copyright free] Marvel human character as an explanation for how Spike became Smasher [Blackrock is my guess].

Positive: Megatron's all out conquest of Earth does more with the idea and more quickly in one issue than AHM did in 12. OK, that might sound like damning with faint praise (my left buttock has done more with this idea than AHM did) but it still shows a nice fast pace and no nonsense attitude.

Again after looking at G1 again, this whole plot point, while still admittedly cool, sticks in my craw. We leave with Megatron, Shockers, and Starscream probably destroyed in the crash and Galvatron about to conquer. Spike gets emo, decides to give Fort Max head (pun intended), kicks Galvy's butt and declares himself protector of the planet.

Now it seems to me the idea of "Fort Max gets his ass kicked, but Spike survives and his binary bonding causes him to have weird anti-TF powers" is perfectly OK. But it seems like taking all that Megatron/Galvatron/Shockwave/Starscream/Fort Max stuff off the board in favor of "Megatron ruulz and Starscream is just another zombie" is just grinding up a piece of nice ahi tuna to make a tunafish sandwich. (God, #78, with the Megs/Galv fight, was super sweet) I think I'm kind of up a creek on this one though, because I feel like the whole point from #79 to Megatron: Zombie Rules is an entire miniseries by itself.

Negative: One thing we've been told repeatedly is this book needs to be accessible for new readers, people who've never read an 80's TF book should be able to pick it up and enjoy it as much as we old farts. That's been the driving force behind several of the decisions made so far.

I remember them saying this too. It seems like they're saying "old farts, here's everything you wanted. new readers, look Megatron destroyed the Earth and Optimus is going to fight him! Cool, eh?"

[inflatable dalek]

I largely
G2: True. Many fans loved this and wanted it folded into ReGen. But you can't put this under "he's already done it" because IIRC, there was a large (fictional) gap of time between end of G1 and beginning of G2, no? To me, this is like saying Star Trek: TNG has already covered the end of TOS (I assume we're all nerdy enough to understand these basic acronyms).

G2 has to occur in "real time" after 80 as it's starts with issues of GI Joe that are definitely set around the time of publication in 1993. That's a helluva lot of a shorter gap than the 21 years we're getting here, so which is the "True" follow up in those terms?

Mind, except where there are plotlines/ideas in common I'm going try and avoid directly comparing G2 and this book as they're aiming to do very different things (G2 is as much a new relaunch as a continuation whilst this is aiming much more for being a "Conclusion").

And certainly, there's some truth to that. As I mentioned earlier, I just went back and re read most of Marvel G1 US, so the inherent cheesiness and operatic nature of his dialogue is a bit clearer in my mind. BUT: Kevin Williamson, Joss Whedon, Bendis, Aaron Sorkin, Russel Davies!! Even if your writing becomes recognizable in its tone and your critics say you're just spitting out a certain voice you're famous for, that doesn't mean that it doesn't sell or isn't critically lauded.

Only familair with any depth in Whedon and Davies work (though I've experienced some of the others) and- whilst they certainly have their playing to the crowd moments (the season 4 Who final which is an extended tribute to RTD from RTD is especially bad in that regard)- I think they generally still manage to write as themselves without actively trying to be write like themselves. If that makes any sense.

One interesting thing I noticed a couple of weeks ago whilst checking out Furman's wiki page that might be a symptom of this that surprised me is how late in the day many of the Furmanisms show up. Most of the standard ones are from the second half of the Marvel run and don't really become fixtures until Dreamwave. It's as if fandom had grasped on a handful of lines that by coincidence had popped up two or three times in hundreds of issues and decided they were catchphrases and convinced Furman of it as well, so he started including them more regularly because he'd been told he always did and it was what people wanted. Is it possible for an author to Flanderise themselves?

It'll be interesting to see how Roberts handles it actually, he's got a very distinctive "voice" as well, and is already the darling of fandom (to myself included). Falling into the trap of just knocking out a Robertsey script and soaking up the praise could be potentially tricky.

This drew a snort from me, as I (again) just reread G1 and was again annoyed when Wildman made Blaster's head visorless like the model.

Blaster's an odd one really, presumably the UK got sent a different character model to the one the US book was using (and his UK given references were likely what Wildman was still using when he was on the American book) but you'd have thought that once they'd noticed the more prominently featured US version had the helmet they'd have just cut out a picture of it and sent it to artists telling them to draw it like that now.

Wildman did talk briefly about how the books drawn now compared to the old days and (I must admit to not being an artist of any shape or form so I may be misinterpreting) apprently he still draws the page "Full size" before scanning it and sending the image to Baskerville (who them prints it off onto board at his end, so neither of them is doing their work "Digitally", though I'm not sure how many artists do or even if it's feasible). It didn't sound like he does any mucking about with it afterwards in photoshop or anything like that as was theorised up thread.

An interesting anecdote from the panel about the old days is that- whilst they'd also send it directly to one another- there were times when Wildman would send his across the Atlantic to Marvel US, who would then send it back across to Baskerville before sending it back over for a third time to Marvel once again so Nel could get his crayons on it. That's insane really, and- as they said- it's amazing in retrospect nothing ever got lost (which did happen once with Dan Reed art that was only sent from Paris to London).

Issue 83
Again after looking at G1 again, this whole plot point, while still admittedly cool, sticks in my craw. We leave with Megatron, Shockers, and Starscream probably destroyed in the crash and Galvatron about to conquer. Spike gets emo, decides to give Fort Max head (pun intended), kicks Galvy's butt and declares himself protector of the planet.

Now it seems to me the idea of "Fort Max gets his ass kicked, but Spike survives and his binary bonding causes him to have weird anti-TF powers" is perfectly OK. But it seems like taking all that Megatron/Galvatron/Shockwave/Starscream/Fort Max stuff off the board in favor of "Megatron ruulz and Starscream is just another zombie" is just grinding up a piece of nice ahi tuna to make a tunafish sandwich. (God, #78, with the Megs/Galv fight, was super sweet) I think I'm kind of up a creek on this one though, because I feel like the whole point from #79 to Megatron: Zombie Rules is an entire miniseries by itself.

Yeah, I'll give some benefit of the doubt until we find out exactly where Shockwave and Galvatron are at (I expect "Major" characters like them won't be zombie slaves) and what exactly happened to Spike, but the whole Circuit Smasher angle is going to have an uphill struggle to beat his look...

[inflatable dalek]

One thing about AA that made me smile that I forgot to mention is that the statute of limitations on Shane McCarthy must have expired as the Furman written script reading had what is- to the best of knowledge- the first out and out bitch slap from him towards All Hail Megatron. With Hunter waking up and being assured by Verity that it was all a terrible dream.

So there you go folks, that's canon if you want.

[Professor Smooth]

Read the solicit for 83. Can't believe I misjudged Circuit Smasher's identity that badly.

[Metal Vendetta]

One interesting thing I noticed a couple of weeks ago whilst checking out Furman's wiki page that might be a symptom of this that surprised me is how late in the day many of the Furmanisms show up. Most of the standard ones are from the second half of the Marvel run and don't really become fixtures until Dreamwave. It's as if fandom had grasped on a handful of lines that by coincidence had popped up two or three times in hundreds of issues and decided they were catchphrases and convinced Furman of it as well, so he started including them more regularly because he'd been told he always did and it was what people wanted. Is it possible for an author to Flanderise themselves?

It started to stick in my craw about the time they added "well and truly" as a Furmanism, I don't know if it's something Americans say or not, but it's not so unusual as to merit special mention, surely? Also, I picked up a classic Chris Claremont (an author Furman has admitted as an influence) X-Men book from a bargain store and within the space of three issues he'd used "reap the whirlwind" (itself a biblical quote, ffs) twice.

I dunno, Simon is pretty good about it and everyone loves a good "Better to fight and die than live with the knowledge that I ran!" every now and again, but I can't help feeling that it's a bit of a case of familiarity and contempt at play here.