A Transformers Fan rant

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:05 am

Been on the IDW forums for awhile. Pretty much through with them.

Seems like a good place to lay out my thoughts.

I'm looking forward to the new IDW Transformers comics this year.
Everything else Transformers, for a long time now, has been mostly garbage.
Every movie since The Movie, every show after the original came to an end, and the toys went downhill long long ago.
I know it's all in the name of profit, or maybe mostly,
but get this...

Transformers are getting their butts kicked by ponies.
Don't believe me?

Go to YouTube and search Rainbow Dash vs Starscream.
Then go watch at least three episodes of MLP FiM, and see if you don't find it more entertaining than even the orginal Transformers cartoon.

After McCarthy and Costa at IDW and Rescue Bots and TF: Prime...

I'm going
Damn. Seriously? Really? Do Hasbro AND IDW just hate trying to find decent writers/ producers/ creators/ teams for Transformers?????

Granted--- Rainbow Dash would have whipped Starscream anyhow, but the Transformers cartoon/ show/ whatever should at least rival for the number one spot in every media!

But, you know,
WHAT-ever! I'll just watch MLP FiM until somebody with some real Transformers genius puts together a solid show and gets Hasbro to support it.
And read comic books, all the while wishing someone would have made Infiltration/ Devestation into a cartoon that can hold an audience without them having to pursuade themselves to like it just because it bears the name Transformers.

Thoughts anyone?
Please tell me I'm not really the only Transformers fan in this boat.
I don't want to sit with the bronies. I would prefer to be motivated over giant transforming robots that stand against evil across the galaxy and the universe.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 am

I dunno. I think it's been a mixed bag overall.

The movies, whilst pretty awful, were massively successful in raising the profile of the franchise and attracting new (younger) fans.

The comics, have been poor up until now, Wreckers aside. Hopefully the tide is turning here as MTMTE is excellent, hopefully RID will follow and we have Regenerations to look forward to.

I disagree about the toys. I'm not a fan of the movie stuff, but most of the Generations figures are top notch. Personally I loved the TF:Animated figures too, and I have a couple of TF:Prime figures which are fantastic (especially Starscream.

The Transformers Animated and Prime series were also excellent. Far better than any of that Armada/Energon/Cybertron crap. Probably better than Beast Wars, in fact.

Post by **Kaylee** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:23 am

I throw my hat in for TF:Prime and the toys too - I think some of the stuff we're getting/have had over the last 7 years would make my 5yo self throw a five day tantrum out of sheer jealousy.

Yeah the comics have been detritus and the movies were awful... IMO. Loads of people love the films and think they are 'perfect' Transformers. If nothing else I can get on board with the idea that they create more TF 'stuff' and keep the franchise alive. Even though, I still despise them as entertainment.

The comics seem to be looking up (BTW anybody got any clue how I can get them in Tokyo? IDW have a digital distribution storefront but predictably it says my area isn't serviced...)

I still keep a candle in the window for the Masterpiece figures. Often horribly flawed, but like that gorgeous boyfriend/girlfriend who you know is poison you just keep going back for one more taste...

Lots of the other figures are pretty cool IMO. Loads of re-issues and some really clever third party stuff doing the rounds (eg proper limbs for G1/Reissue Devestator that mean you can actually pose him, Perfect Edition Scout/Reflector)

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion and I can totally see where you're coming from. There are plenty of nice TF things going for me at the moment though

Edit - I have to ask, what's with the My Little Pony stuff? Is MLP vs TF the new Mac vs PC or something?

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:12 am

You know,
It kinda sounds like I might need to give TF: Prime another shot.
I wasn't impressed with Beast Wars, and after the opening scene in episode one, I felt like that was exactly what I was watching.

On the toys-
The orginal Optimus Prime didn't just fall apart when you transformed him. At least from what I remember of actually owning one and playing with it. Heck, none of my G1 toys broke or fell apart unless they were seriously abused, and if you were good, you could figure them out without instructions.
I haven't had my hands on a TF: Prime toy yet. However, I have seen my nephew break or break a piece off every other character since Transformers Animated.

What this all really boils down to is
Geez, I almost feel like tossing in the towel. Screw Hasbro. If they want to screw up and let others screw up The Transformers then I might as well finally pack it in and give up the fight because there sure don't seem to be too many around that would really like to see this franchise step up to the challenge of being the best on the planet.

As for My Little Pony-
The Rainbow Dash vs Starscream is just a fan-made YouTube thing. Very well thought out and put together.
And MLP FiM is also very well thought out and entertaining. If there was ever a reference for how to make a show better than it's ever been, this is it.
I only wish this sort of thing would have happened to Transformers. There's just been so much more room for action, transforming, wit, plot substance...

I'll give Prime another look.
But you know what, it only took 5 mins... probably less, of MLP FiM in the first episode and I was going...
No frikin way this show is THAT good, or that funny... but it just is.

If you don't like the Rainbow Dash vs Starscream bit then you deffintely won't like MLP FiM. Feel sorry for those who miss out. If nothing else it's still a good laugh.

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:20 am

Oh yeah
Kinda missed the issue there....
It's not so much Transformers vs My Little Pony
It's more likely to find out that bronies (boy and guy fans of MLP FiM) are Transformers fans and like MLP just that much more than the current Transformers shows. Call me picky, but if it's not good enough, then it's just plain not good enough.

Post by **Kaylee** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:08 am

*sharpens stick for another prod*

Well, I see what you mean although I had plenty of G1 toys that fell apart (or ended with joints so loose the characters flopped around like rag dolls) - Soundwave, Prime, Magnus, Megatron, Screamer all suffered badly with this IIRC. Personally I'd say the more recent toys are at least on a par in terms of quality (especially considering how more complex they tend to be).

Maybe give TF:Prime another shot and see if you like it, if not there will be another cartoon along in a couple of years anyway

I'm not so keen on Beast Wars/Beast Machines myself, but mostly because I find the early CGI really grating to watch. The stories and characterisation, I always concede, are excellent.

Not sure about levelling the blame solely at Hasbro: the toys are designed by Takara-Tomy in Japan, the comics and cartoon are created independently in the US and the movies made by a military/explosion fetishist with a 4s attention span to a Hollywood-approved money-making action movie template.

Hasbro just sort of sits in the middle as a reseller/Western Intellectual Property holder AFAIK. The full rogues gallery is far more diverse

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:32 pm

The only Transformers stuff I'm into right now are the comics... and I haven't been fully on board the comics since Furman was around. Don't like the movies, didn't care for Animated (although I can appreciate the work they did to win people like us over... it just wasn't my cuppa) or Prime.

Then again, nor do I care for MLP but it seems to be scratching an itch for a lot of people, so whatta I know?

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:34 pm

No.
I have to stick with my original analysis.
TF: Prime stinks.
Not as bad as some series, but for me it's like watching a meld of Bayformers and Beast Wars.
Everything about the show just tries way to hard to be impressive.
The animation just doesn't work well. Computer graphics just don't captcher the feeling and pace of a good fast-paced show.

I could tear the show apart one piece at a time. It could be a lot better. I made it through just past the half way point of ep 1.

How much better could it be?
Well, compare this...
Was it Cliffjumper who appeared first? You know, I had to think about that. Everything in the opening scene was just a let down. It's like Cliffjumper didn't know how lame he was, and yet he just couldn't quit delivering half- baked lines.

Now, go to The Movie. You can't tell me when Hot Rod first appeared on screen, delivered a few lines, then Transformed for the first time... You weren't thinking... Awesome! A Hot Rod that's a hot rod!!
The character didn't even try to be kool. Hot Rod was just plain awesome.

That's just one comparison. I could draw many.

Not to mention, the first time you see Rainbow Dash in MLP FiM... you just know she's awesome. The ponies are making the Transformers look like an amature production by a bunch of grade schoolers.

And how the heck did that orchestrated randomized composition even pass for a soundtrack??????? Sounds like it was a rip off from that one computerized graphics cartoon that was out about the same time as Beast Wars... or it came straight from some computer game.

I think my biggest beef would be with the voices. Why does Optimus Prime sound like himself and nobody else does? And why doesn't anybody sound like they're a robot?!? Part of what made Transformers The Transformers was all the kool and crazy voice effects!!

I expect better out of a franchise/ show that has the potential to be awesome. I'm not one to settle for mediocrity.

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:46 pm

Somebody or some company owns the overall rights to the transformers franchise, and whoever that is ought to step it up and bring in some quality control.
A Transformers specialist that wouldn't let the junk slide by.

In fact, there probably ought to be one for every franchise.
There's plenty amuck that could stand improving.

I can tolerate a few complexifying Transformers, but when the majority are just overly complicated.... Ugh. Makes me wish the trailer really would just disappear every time.

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:55 pm

BTW

Stick
VS
Reflex

Really?
Yes, I get it,
But you know, it just didn't even hurt a little bit before. ;-)

I would have grabbed my name from the IDW forums (Optimus), but that's apparently been taken over here.
So,
I thought about it, and I thought maybe Reflex would be suggestive of a Cybertronian. I guess not...

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:57 pm

Karl wrote:
The comics seem to be looking up (BTW anybody got any clue how I can get them in Tokyo? IDW have a digital distribution storefront but predictably it says my area isn't serviced...)

Karl, can you use Comixology in your area? 'Cause I think IDW is going to be using that from now on (as opposed to their own digital storefront).

Post by **Kaylee** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:58 am

DJ_Convoy wrote:
Karl wrote:
The comics seem to be looking up (BTW anybody got any clue how I can get them in Tokyo? IDW have a digital distribution storefront but predictably it says my area isn't serviced...)

Karl, can you use Comixology in your area? 'Cause I think IDW is going to be using that from now on (as opposed to their own digital storefront).

Excellent - thank you DJ! I've created an account so it looks like I should be able to slurp the comics this way. About time I started supporting them properly

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:10 pm

I agree with Karl about the old vs. new toys thing: my cousin broke the arm of my G1 Optimus Christmas afternoon as a kid, and my parents never forgave him for it.

Here's the thing, I think: when I was a kid, I liked the toys, I liked the cartoons, but the comic were the only medium that I felt didn't talk down to me, didn't dumb it down for kids. That's why comics have been the center of my TF love.

Now these days - and I don't have any doubt that TF: Prime is a good series to some - the cartoons and the toys and the movies are STILL aimed at kids. So to kind of track the TF cartoon and expect them to live up to your storytelling expectations as an adult isn't really the fairest test.

But the comics are (recently) good now, and the toy line is diverse enough to where there's stuff for the kids, and there's still stuff for adults, whether it's tracking down Takara reissues, MPs, Binaltech, WSTs, whatever.

In terms of Bayformers, some people say good on it for keeping the dream alive, some people say it's a horrible raping of their childhood, a la Lucas and the Crystal Skull, and I would imagine that the VAST majority of people fell out of TF fandom, and found the movie to be an adult version of TF because Megan Fox had boobs, Bumblebee was a sweet car, the the US military was shown to be far more adept at influencing a robotic galactic war than they are fighting zombies or global viral infections.

I guess the main point is I remember suffering through G2 toys, through no comic book, through crappy cartoons. Right now, things ARE pretty good. There are complex toys, but there are also incredibly dumbed down Transformers for toddlers. There perhaps is a cheesy cartoon, but we're now back to excellent comics. TF fandom is a series of waves that you have to ride. Or you can get out of the pool, as I've done numerous times so when you come back, you have a much better palate.

And one more thing: Hot Rod in The Movie is a dick! lol

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:10 pm

Duh! He got Prime killed!

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:10 pm

Karl wrote:
DJ_Convoy wrote:
Karl wrote:
The comics seem to be looking up (BTW anybody got any clue how I can get them in Tokyo? IDW have a digital distribution storefront but predictably it says my area isn't serviced...)

Karl, can you use Comixology in your area? 'Cause I think IDW is going to be using that from now on (as opposed to their own digital storefront).
Excellent - thank you DJ! I've created an account so it looks like I should be able to slurp the comics this way. About time I started supporting them properly

Awesome- I'm glad that worked!

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:25 am

DJ_Convoy wrote:Duh! He got Prime killed!

Hot Rod wasn't too mussed over it either. He never actually apologised for getting the guy nuked in the chest, merely asked for forgiveness then the great goober just wore a hang-dog expression whilst standing at Prime's deathbed, carrying out a Magnus order that I think went something like this:

M: Now Hot Rod, this is a sad and serious day in Autobot history. So don't say anything or touch anything.
HR: But I'm gonna be helping, right?
M: Eh, sure. You can... catch the Matrix if it gets dropped. Here's a butterfly net.
HR: Gee! AWESOME! *swishes net around* I get to catch the Matrix!
M: *quietly* like that'll happen...

Mr_Tigg · Post by **Mr_Tigg** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:45 pm

Must say I think some of those comments are mighty unfair Reflex - especially "everything else Transformers, for a long time now, has been mostly garbage".

On the toys -

The only one's I collect are the classics/universe figures so I can't really comment on other toy lines, but I think for the most part they are excellent updates to the old G1 characters - I don't really see what more a G1 fan could want from a toyline.

Animated toys were also very good from all accounts.

On the tv shows -

Out of curiosity have you watched Beast Wars / Animated / Prime all the way through?

From a writing perspective, Beast Wars & Animated are, simply put, the two best TF series to have been aired. Both are accessible to children and adults alike, and both offer a maturer approach to crafting a TF story.

To my mind they realise the true potential of the franchise and are far superior to the original G1 show.

On Prime - it's got too many similarities to the movieverse for me to truly love it, but I did find it entertaining from start to finish. It's certainly not as bad as you make it out to be.

On the movies -

Found the first one enjoyable for the novelty of seeing TFs in real life, but both sequels were terrible. I'm also not a fan of the Bayformers aesthetic.

However I do agree that they have helped bring the franchise to a worldwide audience and renew it's popularity with the masses.

On IDW -

Honestly I thought All Hail Megatron was the worst comic series I have read in a long, long time and must agree that McCarthy should never have been given the reigns. It was particularly galling that it came straight after (and undermined) the excellent story Furman was crafting.

Costa on the other hand I have more sympathy for - yes his work for TFs was terribly average, and yes he was given far too long a run with 'Ongoing', but I can see why some people like his writing. His work on GI Joe is supposedly quite good (the same can't be said for McCarthy).

To my mind Costa was simply the wrong guy for Transformers - in contrast with GI Joe, his writing style just doesn't suit the TF franchise one bit.

Anyway it's over now, and IDW are at least making amends by giving a Roberts a shot.

In conclusion -

Frankly I think that - yes - there have been elements of the TF franchise that have been poorly realised, but for each badly executed idea there has usually been a decent one to balance it out and keep fans believing.

I'd be curious to know what it is exactly you don't like about the more enjoyable releases of recent years (e.g. Animated, Beast Wars, etc).

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:09 pm

Yeah, the Animated toys are class. I have the Dinobots on my desk atm, although I got them for the kids. They have somehow migrated here. Don't know it happened. The joy of Grimlock's bulldozer face...

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:34 pm

Well for me, I didn't like the humans in Animated being threats... the little girl with the Allspark fragment, etc. I gather that in the last season it's full on nuts with references to everything ever... which I dig... but I never warmed up to the designs. Good voice casting, tho'.

It seems nearly everyone likes Animated, and I'm always a tad puzzled as to why. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance...

Of course, I didn't care for Beast Wars at first until the Starscream ep.

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:35 pm

Karl wrote:
DJ_Convoy wrote:Duh! He got Prime killed!
Hot Rod wasn't too mussed over it either. He never actually apologised for getting the guy nuked in the chest, merely asked for forgiveness then the great goober just wore a hang-dog expression whilst standing at Prime's deathbed, carrying out a Magnus order that I think went something like this:

M: Now Hot Rod, this is a sad and serious day in Autobot history. So don't say anything or touch anything.
HR: But I'm gonna be helping, right?
M: Eh, sure. You can... catch the Matrix if it gets dropped. Here's a butterfly net.
HR: Gee! AWESOME! *swishes net around* I get to catch the Matrix!
M: *quietly* like that'll happen...

Roddy is essentially a My Buddy doll the other Autobots drag along with them.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:43 pm

My Buddimus Prime.

This is my username for the next time a crazed internet fan forces me to switch identities.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:29 am

bumblemusprime wrote:My Buddimus Prime.

This is my username for the next time a crazed internet fan forces me to switch identities.

Dibs on Kid Spinster.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:04 am

Reflex wrote:No.
I have to stick with my original analysis.
TF: Prime stinks.

Reflex wrote:I made it through just past the half way point of ep 1.

Reflex wrote:I'm not one to settle for mediocrity.

When did 'not settling for mediocrity' redefine itself as posting an ill-thought out (you can judge a series on half an episode), unnuanced (it stinks) rant?

Just curious.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:11 pm

Shanti418 wrote:
bumblemusprime wrote:My Buddimus Prime.

This is my username for the next time a crazed internet fan forces me to switch identities.
Dibs on Kid Spinster.

That's so good I might have to stalk you myself.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:59 pm

Re. mediocrity.

In fairness, I watched the whole of the first mini, kept waiting for it to lift itself above the level of mediocrity and ended up disappointed. It's like a more coherent AHM - every character beat is just ransacked and recycled from TV Tropes.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:12 pm

Jack Cade wrote:Re. mediocrity.

In fairness, I watched the whole of the first mini, kept waiting for it to lift itself above the level of mediocrity and ended up disappointed. It's like a more coherent AHM - every character beat is just ransacked and recycled from TV Tropes.

Speaking of TF Prime?

I rather liked the first episode, but I am enough of a TF fan that I was actually not excited to see the second. They pulled from G1, Animated, even the IDW-verse, it seemed, and of course the Bayverse, and created a big glob of fairly good story that I felt like I had seen before.

The current direction at IDW (I can't believe I'm saying this seriously) is taking the franchise, in contrast, to an amazing place I've never seen before.

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:14 am

Oh,
You know,
There's this idea out there that when you change something, you would generally be attempting to make that something better.
The TF franchise has failed, in all but a few areas.

In order to effectively demostrate what I mean would require a lot more time than I care to invest on this topic at the moment .... or even have.
Let alone, who would really read the whole thing?

Must agree- The comics have done a better job overall, with the exception of the recent hiccups.

The toys- well, there is a better way to do things. The manufacturers just want to profit as much as possible... but, you know, whatever, because it's not like I'll be designing any toys. I just have the knowledge on how to make them better... Well, actually, more like, at least 20% cooler since there's a big judgement calculation on what is actually better.
Did you know soda pop (fizzy, cola, whatever you want to call it) is actually better when it comes in a glass bottle and is made with real sugar?
I've been torqued over plastic bottles ever since they hit the floor in the old peanut butter commercials.

What qualifies me to say what I do?

Think of me what you like.
I am experienced and intimately familiar with terms such as outstanding, excellence, best, competition, and quality. To say anything more would be boastful of my accomplishments and I have no desire to prove myself among strangers.
Shame on the idea of Transformers being better than Go Bots. They attracted me as a fan. LoL
I almost feel sorry for them.... because I know how to consistently maintain a superior standard for a prolonged period of time with minimal compromise.... in anything.

If I didn't know how to do that, I wouldn't bother most of the time.

And I ain't afraid to tell anyone their product is garbage or they're making stupid decisions to their face... in fact, I prefer to do things in person. This whole internet experience allows for too much misinterpretation, and it's too easy to just brush things off or ignore them entirely.

On top of all that, it may be a personality flaw or whatever, but once I decide I like something, it takes a lot for me to start not liking it and decide to not care anymore. Through thick and thin, good and bad, hot, cold, rainy, windy, icy, decaffeinated, unleaded, and removing even the toughest stains...
I'll be there.

Hot Rod wasn't a dick. He was a young punk who didn't know any better at the time.
You're probably just jealous because he actually looks good in flames.

The whole caravan thing though... Yeah, that was completely gay. Big WTF when I saw that the first time. I wanted to call Hasbro that very day and ask them what the hell they were thinking having the new Autobot leader transform into an over-rated minivan on steroids! It was like when they got to that point, they just couldn't bother with a minor detail like keeping everything awesome.
Oh no... Here we go...
And where the hell were the Aerial Bots when Devestator showed up?!?!
Would it have killed them to have attention to details or some kind of story-line integrity?

We're getting close to 30 years... and nobody can get this story done right for a tv series or movie? Even if it was all new characters! I don't care who's in the show! Just make it better!
But nnnnooooooooo .... we've gotta keep changing old characters and making them new for the new generation because we're not even allowed to play with cap guns, and you have to share your box of crayons!!!!!!

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:34 am

Ok
So

Somebody's thinking...

You just can't be happy with anything.

Far from it.
I'm just pissed at the moment because I went down that road.

And somebody should have torn it all out and laid a whole new foundation by now instead of just pouring junk asphalt on top of more junk asphalt.

And when something has managed to remain screwed up for almost 30 years, and all along I knew and still know how to make it better than it ever has been, I'm gonna speak my mind.

Go ahead. Put me in charge. I'll show ya how it's done.

Not only can I think outside the box, I can think inside the chimney!

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:38 am

Hhhhmmmmm

Well.
It does appear I am pretty much the only one in this boat....

That what sucks the most about all this.

Reflex · Post by **Reflex** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:34 am

Mediocrity did not redefine itself.

When you don't know what mediocrity is, you won't know the difference between winning because you did great or winning because there just wasn't anyone else competing.

And half an episode is sufficient. The highlight was when the abominable Starscream made some glowing liquid drip out of another character I was already wishing wasn't in the show. I didn't feel like waiting a whole season to be introduced to Megatron since Starscream wasn't even Starscream once again... in fact I think he de-evolved from animated, and certainly didn't feel like waiting around for the explanation that the glowing gel might actually be energon.

Oh... Oh oh oh!
And...
If you can transport like they did....
Then how the $$$$ were they late?!!!!!?!?!!!!!! Was there something wrong with having a major skirmish in the first episode?
I would bet it took ten episodes or more to get anything explained, and I doubt there has yet to be a decent one-liner.
Plus there is other evidence that TF: Prime is not near as good as other top notch cartoons. There's more than one review floating around that says it's garbage or at least not as good as most long-time fans would have hoped.

Ill-thought-out.
I outta make fun of you for insulting my intelligence.

Mind you now... there's a difference between trashing an actual person and trashing a person's creation.
I'm not gonna trash you,
But I will trash TF: Prime for a very long time if you care to have a go.
...and with a great many more nuances than you can imagine.

Holy Cybertornian Ponies!
That's a lot more than I was gonna go with for now.
Hhhhmmmmmm
Who knows when I'll be back.