Transformers Ongoing #23 (Probable Spoilers)

Post by **Best First** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:24 pm

This.

This, and the issue before it, are the epic potential of this franchise, for once, actually realised.

This is a Prime and Megatron who are both recognisable and yet new as their past is revealed.

This is so much better than IDW have put out for the last 3 years its frankly embarassing.

This. THIS. This is what we want.

**** Yeah.

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:04 pm

Now, to wait until January-

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:39 pm

Goddamn mother ******* LCS didn't get it in, after I told them to. I think I'll run by Xanadu in Seattle this weekend and get 22 and 23.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:06 pm

Best First wrote:This.

This, and the issue before it, are the epic potential of this franchise, for once, actually realised.

This is a Prime and Megatron who are both recognisable and yet new as their past is revealed.

This is so much better than IDW have put out for the last 3 years its frankly embarassing.

This. THIS. This is what we want.

**** Yeah.

BeeFster beating me to the punch on the review? And possibly having to dodge some looters and bottle rockets on the way to the comic store? Then it must be good!

And it is. Oh, it is.

For me, these two issues are the best since waaaaaaay back when Warrior School and Repeat Performance were released in the US by Marvel. That would be 1984-1985. Twenty-six years ago.

I love Optimus Prime again. Which I didn't think was going to happen. But seeing him strap on the carcass of his dead brother blasting baddies to bits, throwing his Civil Service trophies like Chinese throwing stars ala Bullseye, and tearing off a piece of his own body to employ as a battering device all whilst maintaining that verve in doing the right thing was just suweeeeeeeeeeeeet. It was a nice touch, to explore the influence of the Matrix upon it's wielder. Do they think for themselves? Or are they in some way convinced to think a certain way? Touching moment with Ratchet too.

In the space of but two issues, Roberts has achieved more than IDW set out to do since they got the license. The history. The epic feel. As the BeeFster says above, and as I pointed out with review of #22, this is what it means to meet the potential of a franchise that has such a rich cast and history.

Milne's and LaFuente's art is fantastic. I mean, I would not mind this duo tackling every issue from here on out. Joana truly elevates the artwork on everything she touches. There's such a beautiful balance of vibrancy, lighting, and shading in her coloring. She would make my work look good. And I can't draw worth a dime.

At one point, we were debating whether the staleness of these comics were due soley to the longevity of it all, that we'd seen it all, and therefore, there were no more stories to really tell. Roberts proves us wrong and teaches us a valuable lesson. Never lose hope, for one day, an author might arise from the oceans of mediocrity and show the world there are stories still worth telling.

They just need to be given the chance.

"A+"

Post by **Best First** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:32 pm

Buy Pile Review

Transformers #23
(IDW Publishing)
Jump from the Read Pile.
Optimus Prime and Megatron confront their shared, twisted history in the pre-war days of Cybertron in this amazing issue. Speaking truth to power, Optimus -- then just a cop named Orion Pax -- is moved by the eloquence of Megatron, a hard labor mine worker who strains against the restrictive caste system of their society. Wait, what? This is actually superbly even more awesome than it sounds, as some of the normal problems with depicting Cybertron (coloring that melts everything together and artwork that makes mechanoids hard to distinguish from the backgrounds) are not in evidence at all, plus the character work on Optimus and Megatron is simply riveting. Such a surprisingly complex piece of culture, especially given that it's a comic book about toys.

annoying he had to tack the 'waah toys' end on but good to see this getting wider recognition and praise.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:54 am

Best First wrote:
annoying he had to tack the 'waah toys' end on but good to see this getting wider recognition and praise.

Never really understood that criticism myself either, you might as well say "The Hulk is surprisingly good, despite being based on a simple adolescent power-trip motif honed by a company that makes money from printing books full of pictures and captions."

Everything has to come from something, what difference does it make whether a toy or some fat git in a board room or a lowly under-paid staff writer?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:47 pm

That Buy Pile guy has pisspoor tastes. He has given a Buy rating to some very bad TF comics before.

NeoSpringer · Post by **NeoSpringer** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:06 pm

Definitely the best TF comic I've read from IDW... I dunno, maybe one of the best in the history of TF comics. The writing and characterisation is wonderfully complex - I need to read it a few more times to catch all the nuances. Reading this and issue 22 together took me a full hour, compared to the 10 minutes for Costa's issues.

One thing I noticed. In issue 22, when Springarm was going over Megatron's details he said he had no batch code and asked him if he was forged or cold constructed. Megs didn't answer, saying something about apartheid. It was done to be incidental but it left his origin mysterious; then in this issue Orion/Optimus was surprised to find out that the Creation Matrix could give life to a Transformer. Perceptor also said Megatron had an unusually strong spark. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but did the Matrix create Megatron? And if so, what does that say about Megs, and about the Matrix?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:12 am

Interesting.....

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:08 am

Was in Seattle today for a gig, and stopped by the comic shop in Lynnwood, the same one frequented by the Penny Arcade guys, to get #22 and 23.

Wow.

It's been a year since I read a TF comic I enjoyed this much, and that was the final issue of Wreckers. It's been much longer since I read one that made me reevaluate this franchise. Maybe Generation 2? Spotlight: Shockwave wasn't so much a game-changer as proof that Furman still had it.

This made me realize that every Optimus Prime, ever, failed to be a badass. This Orion Pax (who looks like Optronix) just... wow. His ideals are admirable, and when he gets cornered by three guys with guns he kicks all kinds of metal ass. And he is, indeed, willing to put Megatron down like a dog.

These are... well, I'm not crazy about the art, but other than that, these are beyond perfect. They are the apotheosis of Megs and Prime's relationship.

Spoilery question: Who thinks that Megatron did help Impactor to throw two guys into a trash compactor?

Post by **Kaylee** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:32 pm

Pretty freakin' sweet. One of the best Prime stories I've read in ages, and quite a turnaround from the 'I'm going to surrender myself' rubbish of the early ongoing.

I thought it interesting what a huge presence Megatron was in the story, even though he was only technically in one page of material.

I'm also digging the little throwaway references to G1 continuity of Matrix Flames, 'empties' and stuff like that.

I wonder what the next one will be like... other than it will include the big G. BTW do I need to have read all that chaos stuff to understand why he's in it? I started Heart of Darkness and didn't understand it, mostly because it was making reference to a load of other spin-off comics I don't have... grrr...

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:19 am

So you think we'll be suffering major withdrawals for the next issue, given it's Costa again, or do you think Roberts will have his hand in the rest of the issues more than we think despite the billing as Costa for writer?

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:57 am

If they were smart, they would have taken all of Costa's scripts and had Roberts doctor them before they went to the artist.

Of course, Andy has made the most spectacularly terrible mistakes as an editor I've ever seen, for two years running, minus these two issues and Wreckers. So probably not.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:08 pm

I got just one question, something that doesn't make sense to me (possibly because i've not been following the ongoing very much).

Prime gives the Matrix to Ratchet to look after so he can have a conversation with Megs and determine whether or not the Matrix has been clouding his judgement in some way? Whether it makes him a different person when he's bearing it?

But he's only just got the Matrix back hasn't he? He's spent years without it? For instance, Megatron surrendered to him whilst he didn't have it?

So now, he's popping it back out for half an hour to see whether or not he's a changed 'bot without it?

Or am I missing something?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:35 pm

Okay, I've just bought issues 22 and 23 online. Looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about. My first IDW comics since AHM #2.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:39 pm

Legion wrote:I got just one question, something that doesn't make sense to me (possibly because i've not been following the ongoing very much).

Prime gives the Matrix to Ratchet to look after so he can have a conversation with Megs and determine whether or not the Matrix has been clouding his judgement in some way? Whether it makes him a different person when he's bearing it?

But he's only just got the Matrix back hasn't he? He's spent years without it? For instance, Megatron surrendered to him whilst he didn't have it?

So now, he's popping it back out for half an hour to see whether or not he's a changed 'bot without it?

Or am I missing something?

I think Optimus is just now wondering whether his judgement has been affected by the Matrix, and so he takes precautions by removing it. It's just a doubt that he has. But Ratchet indirectly tells Prime that he need not have worried, that his insurmountable compassion and sense of justice cannot be tamed even by the influence of the Matrix.

Moreover, who cares that it doesn't jive with what Costa has done? A new era in Transformers is about to begin. Let Roberts do with it what he wills. For me, continuity started with #22.

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:01 pm

Exactly. Next issue I'll buy is #125. I don't care if Costa follows, reads, incorporates or even UNDERSTANDS what's going in #22 and 23.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:33 pm

WHoah - where did that come from, a giant big load of wicked comic just turned up in the sub-urbs of cybertron!

This is really great stuff, loving the robocop references too!

More please!

Post by **Best First** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:24 pm

man i still can't get over how good these two issues were.

What i think i love most is how Prime and Megatron basically start at the same point, looking at the same goal, but one is all about principle and the other is essentially all about compromise (including his own murderous appetites) and their application as such in the persuit of those goals.

What i also love is that Prime is interesting because he is Prime, idealistic, unwavering, holding himself to the highest standards, and co-incidentally a total Captain America style baddass - and these things play out in a way because of the situations he is in and who he is - rather than attempting to make him interesting by heaping flaws and silly plot contriveances such as the nonsense surrender on him.

Tell you what tho - it's always those one eyed bastards who are behind it all isn't it?

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:48 pm

WHIRL DID IT

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:34 am

Best First wrote: What i also love is that Prime is interesting because he is Prime, idealistic, unwavering, holding himself to the highest standards, and co-incidentally a total Captain America style baddass - and these things play out in a way because of the situations he is in and who he is - rather than attempting to make him interesting by heaping flaws and silly plot contriveances such as the nonsense surrender on him.

That summarizes quite nicely why I am again fond of Optimus. It's like he's, you know, back. After so many years. Well said.

I wasn't a big fan of the cartoon by any stretch. But one thing I always loved in that thing was Optimus Prime. And in Budiansky's Marvel run as well. There was just something so noble and awesome about him. And I feel with these two issues, that guy is back. That Prime I've always loved. Not Bay Prime. Not Costa Prime. Not indifferent Furman Prime of Escalation. But the honest to gosh real Prime.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:27 pm

i was cool with Furman Prime - i think it's a warrior pragmatism rather than indifference - the same thing that makes him rip off part of his own body and impale someone through the head with it.

He wasn't indifferent, in said series, for example when Meg's threatened to wipe out the various human participants in the Brasnyan war. And i don't think it was indifference that led to him getting in the way of that truck either. It was give me my ****ing soldier back.

It's better expressed here, don't get me wrong - but this is as much, if not more Simon's legacy (both Marvel and IDW) as the stoic cartoon bot in my eyes.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:31 pm

I love the bit where they talk about all the fights they've had over the years.
Plus i just like TF stories set off earth, it reminds me of operation volcano...

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:40 pm

Caught up with these, and it's really nice stuff. Better than any of the -ation series, and about level with the best of the Spotlights IMO.

Loving the easter eggs Roberts filled these issues with, but more than that, this is the first cathartic response I've had to a TF comic for a long time. Prime taking out those 'bots was incredible stuff.

Not a massive fan of the art but it's enough to forget Milne's car crash that was Megatron: Origin (though I suppose that story is still canon?). I'm not over the moon about the Matrix taking centre stage again, or that Prime's rise to prominence was on the back of Megatron's ideals (a bit to clever for it's own good if you ask me) but those are probably nitpicks.

On the whole it's a bit bittersweet. Why did so much crap have to get released before IDW struck gold with this? Why did things have to get so bad that I gave up on a comic I'd been collecting as long as I can remember?

Have to admit, it means I don't really know what's going on. Why's Whirl such a dick? Why's Rodimus, er, Rodimus? And do I stick with the next bunch of Costa/Roberts issues or wait and see how you guys dig them?

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:42 pm

Skip it and buy 125, which will sum all of Costa's whatever up and lead into the new ongoings.

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Transformers Ongoing #23 (Probable Spoilers)

Re: Transformers Ongoing #23 (Probable Spoilers)