Dreamwave Brrap Brrap Superstah Comic Marathon

Post by **Best First** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:19 pm

Yeah. Dibs.

It was... inevitable.

So should i do it in publishing order or chronologically? I was thinking publishing otherwise it's all 2.5 War Within's before we get to the other stuff, which sounds great, but then there is nothing to break up the other stuff...

Get ready for Smoking! Abdominbals! Explosions! Balloons!

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:22 pm

Get ready for as much DULL SURPRISE as you can handle.

Hook2 · Post by **Hook2** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:29 pm

War Within #1.

"THEY say a lot of things, don't they?"

Millions of year old machines with low grade wit. Awesome.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:42 pm

Gotta be publishing order surely...

Hmmm, Dreamwave. Basically a whole lot of WTF interspersed with okay to good bits.

War Within is remembered fondly but I recall the last 10 or so issues of Armada/Energon were pretty exciting.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:04 pm

Nooo! You stole it from Yaya! I was all set to disagree with him!

But seriously: publishing order. Which I think, in trade terms, goes something like this.

Prime Directive
Armada #1
War Within #1
War and Peace
Armada #2
Either Armada #3 or War Within 2... not sure which came first.

There's a good start for you.

I'm interested to see how Prime Directive holds up, especially as I remember my original complaint was "the robots have stupid proportions" and "way too human-centric."

Hook2 · Post by **Hook2** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:49 pm

Well, if Prime directives is where we start, then it will actually seem like it improves, lol.

So when do we start?

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:56 pm

Oh! Don't forget the frakking weird Rieber/Lee GI Joe crossover. That thing is surely unique in the annals of TF comics.

Pat Lee · Post by **Pat Lee** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:00 pm

I sincerely hope you enjoy the fruits of my beautiful Dreamwave vision. From the towering, beautiful vistas at our peak even I didn't realise how sadly short our golden age would be.

Indulge your dreams and soak up the raw love that we, as true Transformers fans, were able to grant the community.

Peace.

Hook2 · Post by **Hook2** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:21 pm

Pat Lee wrote:I sincerely hope you enjoy the fruits of my beautiful Dreamwave vision. From the towering, beautiful vistas at our peak even I didn't realise how sadly short our golden age would be.

Indulge your dreams and soak up the raw love that we, as true Transformers fans, were able to grant the community.

Peace.

LOL! Is this serious? Hey, if you're really Pat Lee, I think I know a couple of guys looking for some cash...

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:59 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:Oh! Don't forget the frakking weird Rieber/Lee GI Joe crossover. That thing is surely unique in the annals of TF comics.

I liked it. Until the last issue which was... just...

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:57 am

Pat Lee and Mike Costa working together could make the BEST Transformers comics ever. Literally tens of copies would be sold.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:02 am

Looks like I'm gonna have to dust off some old DW comics.

It started with Prime Directive, so that's what I'm going to read first. When I some day get the chance. Which may be never, but my hearts in the right place.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:32 am

Hook2 wrote:Well, if Prime directives is where we start, then it will actually seem like it improves

Yeesh. Somehow i am not expecting this to be the case.

I'll stick with the GeeWun stuff to start.

Prime Directive 1... coming tonight.

Hook2 · Post by **Hook2** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:03 am

Best First wrote:
Hook2 wrote:Well, if Prime directives is where we start, then it will actually seem like it improves

Yeesh. Somehow i am not expecting this to be the case.

I'll stick with the GeeWun stuff to start.

Prime Directive 1... coming tonight.

UH, the G1 is all I can do. The armada stuff before Galvatron and thunderwing makes me want to throw up...I can handle Energon, though.

Hook2 · Post by **Hook2** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:12 am

Best First wrote:
Hook2 wrote:Well, if Prime directives is where we start, then it will actually seem like it improves

Yeesh. Somehow i am not expecting this to be the case.

I'll stick with the GeeWun stuff to start.

Prime Directive 1... coming tonight.

UH, the G1 is all I can do. The armada stuff before Galvatron and thunderwing makes me want to throw up...I can handle Energon, though.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:49 am

Best First wrote:Prime Directive 1... coming tonight.

Page 1: Some snow.

Page 2: Some snow.

Page 3: Some snow.

Page 4: Something in the distance. Of some snow.

Twelve issues later: Shockwave falls down a hole.

That is literally ALL I can remember of DWG1.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:03 am

Hook2 wrote: UH, the G1 is all I can do. The armada stuff before Galvatron and thunderwing makes me want to throw up...I can handle Energon, though.

Armada issue 3... one of the worst Transformers comics in history?

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:33 pm

Maybe.

Why the hell did I buy this ****? I like neither the toys nor the cartoon- why did I buy the Armada comic??? Starved for TF comics, I suppose.

Isn't this the series (or is this all of the DW stuff) where the foreground figures are always inked, but the backgrounds never are? Awful.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:51 pm

OK then - Prime Directive, as it would retrospectievly be dubbed, issue 1!

To be honest the overwhelming feeling is - is that it?

Having waited so long for a return of TF's to comic's, what do we get? Humans, lots and lots of humans.

The fact Daniel, (Daniel!!) is introduced on page 5 makes my heart sink on two counts. One, anyone who has any sense of TF fans knows Daniel is not a move to pull, two, we are clearly in cartoon land here (despite a throw away reference to Buster).

Spike comes across as a bit... spikey (deliberately) and is actually something of a blessed relief after the recent incarnation.

There are signs that this isn't going to end well, both General Halo (head of the hilariously named Development of War Technology) and Lazarus are both pretty lazy comic book tropes, as is the crazy janitor.

And no Transformer utters a single word.

There are however a few nice moments - Megs refusing to kneel and the premise of the war being over followed by the Arc II disaster offer a fairly tidy jumping on point. And it's quite nice seeing TF's utterly **** up humans after the antics of the IDW ongoing. Hey look, they are an actual threat!

The art here, despite what it will descend into, is actually passable.

Overall though - it's just slow, and fairly obvious. with too many badly realised humans and not enough TFs full stop. After however many years of waiting - what a wash out. I remeber telling myself there was still scope for it to get better...

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:11 pm

I paid FIFTEEN bucks for that comic. As I remember, it sold well into the hundreds thousands.

My overall impression was pretty meh, but Spike was relatively sympathetic. I have to give Sarracini credit: this story, once you get through, is an utter piece of ****, but he did establish one of the only sympathetic humans in the post 93 era. No one but Furman has accomplished that since.

Essentially we get a set up for a cliche-fest here. Not to mention the "oh-so-relevant" tactic of linking the Decepticons to terrorists. I'm shocked at how much IDW retreaded these waters with AHM and the ongoing. Brad MickDunno, for all his faults, wisely kept the focus on the TFs.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:07 pm

I remember being impressed with the artwork but disheartened by the cartoon feel of the story. It was around issue 4 that I registered with a certain online Transformers message board.

Hook2 · Post by **Hook2** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:02 am

Issues 1-6.

Two reasons I read through this without throwing it out the window.

1. Spike is nothing like that robosmasher over in Idw ongoing.

2. The Transformers aren't getting their butts handed to them by humans all the time and surrendering to them.

As for the overall story, it's pretty stunning to go back and read this after AHM. Because it's almost the exact same book! Even Megatron's lil mechaforming virus sort of got transferred into the constructicons builing cybertronian structures all over ny.

As for the cons being equated with terrorists, it's not quite as bad for me as the way protesters and such were degraded so badly in Idw. But the moment I stop comparing this to Idw it completely collapses LOL

I remember how emo it was when Bumblebee Quite the autobots in DW, going to Spike for condolences. But now I rather prefer that to Spike leading the autobots in Idw...

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:36 am

Okay, went back and read the trade of this. Actually, it wasn't as bad as I remember it to be. I'm thinking this has something to do with the past two years of crap IDW has dished at us more than PD actually being that good.

Anyway, I thought there were some nice moments dispersed amongst the mediocrity of it all. I enjoyed the fact that Megatron refused to bow, even under 'full control' of the humans at that point. Definitely lended a certain badassery to Megatron. I enjoyed the way Prime was introduced, with Spike asking who the army found and the next page a full page wordless pic of an awful looking Prime. A good example of a moment words would just take away from the moment. And I liked the way humans within the first ten pages were getting squished like bugs, throwing in a little pinch of realism.

One of my favorite moments of the entire DW run was that splash page of Prime facing Devestator alone down a San Francisco boulevard after he swats the other Autobots away like flies. I remember actually sitting up at that point. This, to me, is Optimus Prime. Despite some out-of-character statements Prime makes, I think Costa could take a few pages out of Sarracini's book here (never thought I'd say that) regarding how to balance the usual internal turmoil kinks Prime is usually conflicted with with the overriding courage and leadership we've all come to associate with him, where he tends to rise above those few moments of tender weakness he has, and just gets the ******* job done. It's nice to know I still really do love Prime. For a moment there, I just thought I was souring on his character. Thankfully, it's just that Costa has done a terrible job writing him.

Pat Lee's art is just awful. Just awful. It really detracts from even the good moments. Prime's giraffe neck will again bring nightmares. I think the strength of DW art was their coloring. Many were turned off by this, but I actually loved it. Imagine what the Figster could have done with this or War and Peace.

So all in all, I'd say it's average with a smattering of good moments, but better than what Costa or McCarthy has brought us in their ongoing. Sadly, after reading PD, I've come away with even more of a realization of how bad the recent stuff from IDW has been. The end of AHM was so similar to the end of PD, it's almost uncanny.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:28 am

Yaya wrote:I enjoyed the fact that Megatron refused to bow, even under 'full control' of the humans at that point. Definitely lended a certain badassery to Megatron.

Oh yeah, that was a nice moment.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:16 pm

Yaya wrote:Okay, went back and read the trade of this. Actually, it wasn't as bad as I remember it to be. I'm thinking this has something to do with the past two years of crap IDW has dished at us more than PD actually being that good.

Anyway, I thought there were some nice moments dispersed amongst the mediocrity of it all. I enjoyed the fact that Megatron refused to bow, even under 'full control' of the humans at that point. Definitely lended a certain badassery to Megatron. I enjoyed the way Prime was introduced, with Spike asking who the army found and the next page a full page wordless pic of an awful looking Prime. A good example of a moment words would just take away from the moment. And I liked the way humans within the first ten pages were getting squished like bugs, throwing in a little pinch of realism.

One of my favorite moments of the entire DW run was that splash page of Prime facing Devestator alone down a San Francisco boulevard after he swats the other Autobots away like flies. I remember actually sitting up at that point. This, to me, is Optimus Prime. Despite some out-of-character statements Prime makes, I think Costa could take a few pages out of Sarracini's book here (never thought I'd say that) regarding how to balance the usual internal turmoil kinks Prime is usually conflicted with with the overriding courage and leadership we've all come to associate with him, where he tends to rise above those few moments of tender weakness he has, and just gets the ******* job done. It's nice to know I still really do love Prime. For a moment there, I just thought I was souring on his character. Thankfully, it's just that Costa has done a terrible job writing him.

Pat Lee's art is just awful. Just awful. It really detracts from even the good moments. Prime's giraffe neck will again bring nightmares. I think the strength of DW art was their coloring. Many were turned off by this, but I actually loved it. Imagine what the Figster could have done with this or War and Peace.

So all in all, I'd say it's average with a smattering of good moments, but better than what Costa or McCarthy has brought us in their ongoing. Sadly, after reading PD, I've come away with even more of a realization of how bad the recent stuff from IDW has been. The end of AHM was so similar to the end of PD, it's almost uncanny.

It's funny, JaJa, because I expected to have a similar reaction when I reread this yesterday--"hey this isn't so bad"--and I came away thinking it was the most wretched story I had read in years.

Barring, of course, For All Mankind. And that's crucial, I suppose. It is shocking how much the ongoing and AHM retreaded material from Prime Directive. Terrorists using the Decepticons. Devastator showdown, although they inexplicably use Superion, who never separates into component parts, instead of the earlier-released Omega Supreme. And PD is superior in a few ways, in that it manages to accomplish its crappy goals and get off the pot in six issues, making way for the far superior War and Peace.

Slight spoiler for the end of Besty's read-through: Hallo turns into a scenery-chomping, nuke-happy cliche by the end, complete with "When I was a boy in the Marines, do you know the first thing they taught us?"

My father is a therapist to Marines. I'm quite sure that the first thing the Marines teach you is "sit the [composite word including 'f*ck'] down, shut your mouth, and do whatever I say!"

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that Sarracini, while laden with terrible cliches and self-important crap, has a better story conceit with the techno-virus wave than any counterbalancing story point in AHM. If you took the virus away, made it twelve issues, made Spike an asshole, and immensely improved the art, you would essentially have AHM here.

There was a rather interesting characterization of Megatron. "Nature... war... God... you think you can control it all." Made me realize that we've never had a TF comic that explored Megatron's specific religious beliefs. I always assumed he didn't care whether Primus existed, especially since Optimus is such a New Age mystic about that sort of thing. Sadly, that's about all I got out of PD....

AND I PAID FIFTEEN BUCKS FOR THE FIRST ISSUE!

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:55 pm

Was it a fancy cover or something? Jesus, 15 bucks-

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:17 pm

It was a month after it came out. The thing sold something like five hundred thousand copies and they couldn't keep it in, so my LCS had it on the wall for a hugely inflated price.

I was coming off a nearly ten-year-drought of TF comics. I was weak!

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:23 pm

You could probably buy like every DW Transformers comic in a lot for 15 bucks now...

Except for that epic for our times... Micromasters.*

*You would be paid to take that off of someone's hands, obviously

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:25 pm

Dreamwave rules the 25 cent boxes in both of my local shops. One day when I'm feeling much less of a hoarder, I will no doubt unload my collection in the same place.

Hook2 · Post by **Hook2** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:54 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:
Yaya wrote:Okay, went back and read the trade of this. Actually, it wasn't as bad as I remember it to be. I'm thinking this has something to do with the past two years of crap IDW has dished at us more than PD actually being that good.

Anyway, I thought there were some nice moments dispersed amongst the mediocrity of it all. I enjoyed the fact that Megatron refused to bow, even under 'full control' of the humans at that point. Definitely lended a certain badassery to Megatron. I enjoyed the way Prime was introduced, with Spike asking who the army found and the next page a full page wordless pic of an awful looking Prime. A good example of a moment words would just take away from the moment. And I liked the way humans within the first ten pages were getting squished like bugs, throwing in a little pinch of realism.

One of my favorite moments of the entire DW run was that splash page of Prime facing Devestator alone down a San Francisco boulevard after he swats the other Autobots away like flies. I remember actually sitting up at that point. This, to me, is Optimus Prime. Despite some out-of-character statements Prime makes, I think Costa could take a few pages out of Sarracini's book here (never thought I'd say that) regarding how to balance the usual internal turmoil kinks Prime is usually conflicted with with the overriding courage and leadership we've all come to associate with him, where he tends to rise above those few moments of tender weakness he has, and just gets the ******* job done. It's nice to know I still really do love Prime. For a moment there, I just thought I was souring on his character. Thankfully, it's just that Costa has done a terrible job writing him.

Pat Lee's art is just awful. Just awful. It really detracts from even the good moments. Prime's giraffe neck will again bring nightmares. I think the strength of DW art was their coloring. Many were turned off by this, but I actually loved it. Imagine what the Figster could have done with this or War and Peace.

So all in all, I'd say it's average with a smattering of good moments, but better than what Costa or McCarthy has brought us in their ongoing. Sadly, after reading PD, I've come away with even more of a realization of how bad the recent stuff from IDW has been. The end of AHM was so similar to the end of PD, it's almost uncanny.
It's funny, JaJa, because I expected to have a similar reaction when I reread this yesterday--"hey this isn't so bad"--and I came away thinking it was the most wretched story I had read in years.

Barring, of course, For All Mankind. And that's crucial, I suppose. It is shocking how much the ongoing and AHM retreaded material from Prime Directive. Terrorists using the Decepticons. Devastator showdown, although they inexplicably use Superion, who never separates into component parts, instead of the earlier-released Omega Supreme. And PD is superior in a few ways, in that it manages to accomplish its crappy goals and get off the pot in six issues, making way for the far superior War and Peace.

Slight spoiler for the end of Besty's read-through: Hallo turns into a scenery-chomping, nuke-happy cliche by the end, complete with "When I was a boy in the Marines, do you know the first thing they taught us?"

My father is a therapist to Marines. I'm quite sure that the first thing the Marines teach you is "sit the **** down, shut your mouth, and do whatever I say!"

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that Sarracini, while laden with terrible cliches and self-important crap, has a better story conceit with the techno-virus wave than any counterbalancing story point in AHM. If you took the virus away, made it twelve issues, made Spike an asshole, and immensely improved the art, you would essentially have AHM here.

There was a rather interesting characterization of Megatron. "Nature... war... God... you think you can control it all." Made me realize that we've never had a TF comic that explored Megatron's specific religious beliefs. I always assumed he didn't care whether Primus existed, especially since Optimus is such a New Age mystic about that sort of thing. Sadly, that's about all I got out of PD....

AND I PAID FIFTEEN BUCKS FOR THE FIRST ISSUE!

I think that even though it has already been illustrated fairly well over the course of this page, the fact that AHM basically STOLE this series' entire plotline is of vast significance. They are so similar, even the ending is virtually the same. And International Incident is basically PD part 2 in North Korea! It's so shameful what has happened to Tfs comics lately.