Marvel UK comics marathon

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:00 pm

You know what sticks out most in my mind when I think of Target:2006?

I have no idea why, but it's Scourge trying to fight out of the Autobot trap. "Who organised this rabble?" FANTASTIC.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:09 pm

Acid Beam!

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:14 pm

Right in the head!

Also, Scourge throwing the metal plates like mecha-shuriken. Great!

Post by **Best First** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:21 pm

like this!

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:27 pm

Furman writes the BEST sound effects! ZUNTCH!

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:47 pm

Has to be some of my fav artwork, that top frame of scourge throwing the plate is amazing.
These future cons are hard as nails, even a fusion cannon to the chest only puts him on his arse!

Hook2 · Post by **Hook2** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:15 pm

Hey guys.

I need some advice.

The only uk collections I have are the old titan reprints.

Is it possible to collect the whole run anywhere in good quality?

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:27 pm

Issue by issue, like me... I've got, I dunno, maybe 30 or 40? Only 300 to go...!

but the old british issues are expensive and difficult to come by in decent shape. Every once in awhile, you can get a bunch on eBay.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:25 pm

Hook2 wrote:Hey guys.

I need some advice.

The only uk collections I have are the old titan reprints.

Is it possible to collect the whole run anywhere in good quality?

IDW is bringing out a "Complete UK Collection."

I'm not disappointed with the full-size Titan reprints at all. They're stellar, in bright big colors with fantastic new covers by Senior and Sullivan.

The little manga ones they did for Aspects of Evil on are awful, though. I can understand the black and white, since most of the original stories were black and white. I can't understand the ****** binding that falls apart in your hands, or why newsprint-sized pages had to go down to mass-market paperback size. The only benefit is Wildman's new covers.

Target 2006!

CONTINUES...

Having read i.d.'s lovely thoughts, I'm trying just to stay in perspective a bit. Eight-year-old Spencie is reading this for the first time, after all. Lots of baggage. Phew.

Shedding the many many accolades and taking it for what it is...

it ******* rocks.

You just pull us up from that cliff a little and let us go again, don't you Simon? Over and over... Jazz is tortured. Ironhide is digging up Megatron. The Autobots get themselves wasted. Ultra Magnus, who has been built up as a kind of super robot, refuses to help. Asshole! And yet we will all love him by the end of the arc... oops, you heard nothing, eight-year-old me.

A pithy snit from Impactor. Does anyone really believe he won't support the assault? He's not Grimlock after all, and the Wreckers have only been alluded to at this point.

Simpson manages to draw a decent slugfest with Cyclonus, even if I doubt that he will ever find his comfort zone on this book.

The frame story for the fourth part is great. Simon manages to work the cliffhanger into his fundamental narration this time. Ironhide even comes off as a hint of the grizzled dude we will come to know and love.

Jeff Anderson shows that he is better off inking his own stuff, as his line work acquires a new sense of shadowplay and danger in the second part, and climaxes with a nicely beat-up Megatron.

The fist breaking through the pod at the end... at this point, the cliffhangers are coming so thick and fast that it almost overloads the story, although Starscream turns out to be one of the best tangles in the plot threads later...

Oh my. It appears the next issue is done by one Mister Senior. I do declare...

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:57 pm

bumblemusprime wrote: The little manga ones they did for Aspects of Evil on are awful, though. I can understand the black and white, since most of the original stories were black and white. I can't understand the ****** binding that falls apart in your hands, or why newsprint-sized pages had to go down to mass-market paperback size. The only benefit is Wildman's new covers.

They're not new, and they're not (or at least not all) by Wildman. Each one is the original cover of an issue that appears within that collection, usually roughly appropriate to the overall title/theme of the trade.

The exception being Fallen Star, for which you'd aexpect a Starscream coverbut those featuring him either weren't very good (such as the Classic Pretenders one), or though funny weren't very dynamic (Starscream and Grimlock hugging). So we got Shockwave and Megatron beating the **** out of each other instead. Which I suppose was at least a result of Starscream being a bastard...

The Perchance to Dream cover isn't very good either, but is at least from the title story. Why they didn't go for the awesome Geoff Senior "Galvatron playing with Classic Heroes Chess Pieces" cover I'll never know. It can't possibly be to preserve the surprise of the shock secret villain as it's knob rottingly obvious from about the second instalment anyway (plus, IIRC the Senior cover was on the front of an issue before we'd seen Galvatron in all his glory anyway).

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:08 am

inflatable dalek wrote:
bumblemusprime wrote: The little manga ones they did for Aspects of Evil on are awful, though. I can understand the black and white, since most of the original stories were black and white. I can't understand the ****** binding that falls apart in your hands, or why newsprint-sized pages had to go down to mass-market paperback size. The only benefit is Wildman's new covers.
They're not new, and they're not (or at least not all) by Wildman. Each one is the original cover of an issue that appears within that collection, usually roughly appropriate to the overall title/theme of the trade.

The exception being Fallen Star, for which you'd aexpect a Starscream coverbut those featuring him either weren't very good (such as the Classic Pretenders one), or though funny weren't very dynamic (Starscream and Grimlock hugging). So we got Shockwave and Megatron beating the **** out of each other instead. Which I suppose was at least a result of Starscream being a bastard...

The Perchance to Dream cover isn't very good either, but is at least from the title story. Why they didn't go for the awesome Geoff Senior "Galvatron playing with Classic Heroes Chess Pieces" cover I'll never know. It can't possibly be to preserve the surprise of the shock secret villain as it's knob rottingly obvious from about the second instalment anyway (plus, IIRC the Senior cover was on the front of an issue before we'd seen Galvatron in all his glory anyway).

In my defense, I have only read those once... Many of the stories were great, but the format was bad enough that I thought "I'll wait until IDW reprints these."

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:29 pm

Targey Targey 2006 CONTINUES...

Ron Smith ably chronicles a pit stop on Cybertron. Shame we didn't see more of this guy. While he's not in Senior's league, he's dynamic and certainly glories in the raging violence of this issue. And what violence it is! "First I nail Shrapnel in the head, then toss around his dead corpse like an electric slab of pork!"

I'm starting to think that Americans learned all their violent tendencies from YOU, DAD.

I'm really glad that Simon finally slowed down the raging threads in order to develop the Cybertron story, even if it took a full issue (or in eight-year-old Spence's case, since he is reading hypothetical 22-page reprints in the US in 1988, half an issue). We get a better sense of why these characters matter and why they aren't just Blaster & Perceptor ripoffs. And by the end of the barfight, we're shouting "Wreck & Rule!" with em.

However, eight-year-old Spencie definitely skipped ahead to the Earth story. And who could blame him?

Even without Senior's art, this would be a stunner. The Autobots follow Megatron. Starscream is back, throwing yet another twist into this twist-laden storyline. Said Autobots promptly make asses of themselves trying to get Scourge, who wastes Trailbreaker with a beam of acidintheface! Megatron proves that he's still badass after all the wimping around he has done previously. And we get Galvatron's true identity...

Senior's flying shuriken-thing, flame-spouting fusion cannon and free-for-all brawl elevate this to High Low Art.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:04 am

And on... and on...

No wonder Impactor is so cranky. Xaaron is like "I'll mess with your head again and beat the **** out of you in the process!" I love that meddling old mouth-stitched bastard.

Other than a slightly contrived appearance by the Triple Changers, the dials of awesome just keep going up. Subplot #2,256 shows up in Hot Rod, Kup and Blurr, with a lovely bit where Hot Rod kowtows to Ultra Magnus.

Once we know that Magnus will be the leader that opposes Galvatron, our perception of him changes yet again. How can a stickler and strategist like this possibly take on the charismatic spiritual mantle of Prime?

But of course, when he stands before Galvatron, the last Autobot to do so, we begin to see...

Senior gives us his first Unicron. Ooooh sweetness to my soul. Unfortunately, Simpson turns in one of his worst artistic performances yet in this crucial chapter, robbing some of the joy from the Jazz/Megatron/Autobots/Starscream brouhaha.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:53 am

A'ight. I've read like ten issues ahead of the reviews at this point, so as much as it pains me, I'm going to wrap up T2006...

But what to say about such sense-shattering, staggering story, true believers?

The Galvatron/Magnus fight is stunning in its brutality and vividness. Nihilism rules as everyone is beat to ****, even the heroic Ultra Magnus. No one can beat Galvatron. Only the quirks of time travel fool him, as he begins to question his nature after brutally killing Starscream (a nice moment). This is how Simon keeps Galvatron an effective villain for so long.

Simon seems to be playing off the stakes Bob raised in Return to Cybertron arc, especially in the Wreckers subplot, as the final victories leave us finally questioning whether or not a war without end can be considered to have any victories.

Unicron takes claim for it all, capping the great story with what appears to be anticlimax. Was this all a game? It means nothing? Impactor dies and all it means is that some giant planet gets its jollies twenty years later?

Eight-year-old Spencie doesn't get it, but hold on, sonny, Imma explain it if you can keep from running off to the toy box to reenact that Magnus/Galvatron fight...

Anderson turns in a decent conclusion to his strong work in this arc. Simpson's is thankfully competent after some of the terrible dynamics he's turned in previously, and he gives Impactor a meaningful send-off.

Not gonna say anything about Geoff's art but this:

And in the end...

A TF writer has to be careful with thematic weight. Too much philosophizing and you have a book about giant robots wondering why exactly it's a book about giant robots, aka our current ongoing. Enough moral dilemma, darkness and questioning, and you have a story that pushes just beyond its franchise-imposed expectations.

Subtlety, kids. And believe it or not, this is one of the most subtle works in all of TF canon.

Under the surface, this is a masterful meditation on fate. Simon suggests that even conquerors like Galvatron are but drowning ants in an unforgiving timestream.

My favorite moment in T2006, in hindsight, isn't the Galvatron/Magnus slugfest or the Wreckers' final attack, or any other the ten billion other awesome moments of awesome.

It's when Xaaron convinces Impactor that "History might judge you differently..." A conversation that costs Impactor his life, natch.

Because that's what happens when you second-guess fate--a lesson even Unicron, who supposedly manipulated it all, will learn as he squeals "You cannot destroy my destiny!"

When I picture Simon Furman's direct ancestor, squatting in dingy furs, singing songs about the glory of the Saxon tribe, I imagine him as the very first to gather his buddies around the campfire and say "There was this dude named Beowulf...

"For every one of us, living in this world
means waiting for our end. Let whoever can
win glory before death. When a warrior is gone,
that will be his best and only bulwark. "

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:58 am

That kneepad's outta control!

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:05 am

DJ_Convoy wrote:That kneepad's outta control!

I love Senior's crazy perspective. EJ Su is the only other artist who got such a sense of motion and shape out of his drawings.

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:10 am

Senior is definitely my fav TF artist. I was blown away when I discovered TFUK int like 1989 or so... my first issue was DH vs Galvatron vs Rodimus, and it was fantastic.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:17 am

You weren't one of those horrible US kids who somehow got a hold on the UK comic, were you?

My brother-in-law acquired a bunch of UK comics in Seattle somehow, and I've always despised him for it.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:15 am

bumblemusprime wrote: Subtlety, kids. And believe it or not, this is one of the most subtle works in all of TF canon.

Under the surface, this is a masterful meditation on fate. Simon suggests that even conquerors like Galvatron are but drowning ants in an unforgiving timestream.

My favorite moment in T2006, in hindsight, isn't the Galvatron/Magnus slugfest or the Wreckers' final attack, or any other the ten billion other awesome moments of awesome.

It's when Xaaron convinces Impactor that "History might judge you differently..." A conversation that costs Impactor his life, natch.

Because that's what happens when you second-guess fate--a lesson even Unicron, who supposedly manipulated it all, will learn as he squeals "You cannot destroy my destiny!"

When I picture Simon Furman's direct ancestor, squatting in dingy furs, singing songs about the glory of the Saxon tribe, I imagine him as the very first to gather his buddies around the campfire and say "There was this dude named Beowulf...

"For every one of us, living in this world
means waiting for our end. Let whoever can
win glory before death. When a warrior is gone,
that will be his best and only bulwark. "

You liked it then?

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:30 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:You weren't one of those horrible US kids who somehow got a hold on the UK comic, were you?

My brother-in-law acquired a bunch of UK comics in Seattle somehow, and I've always despised him for it.

Down to the even being in Seattle!

I saw a mail order comic ad, and it advertised the normal TFs comic- but it also advertised another one that was up to issue 100-something. I bought some on a lark, knowing it was a mistake.

Of course, it wasn't. But, if it makes you feel any better, most of the issues were a crushing disappointment because they were reprints of stuff I already had.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:32 pm

DJ_Convoy wrote:
bumblemusprime wrote:You weren't one of those horrible US kids who somehow got a hold on the UK comic, were you?

My brother-in-law acquired a bunch of UK comics in Seattle somehow, and I've always despised him for it.
Down to the even being in Seattle!

I saw a mail order comic ad, and it advertised the normal TFs comic- but it also advertised another one that was up to issue 100-something. I bought some on a lark, knowing it was a mistake.

Of course, it wasn't. But, if it makes you feel any better, most of the issues were a crushing disappointment because they were reprints of stuff I already had.

You still in Seattle?

I want to know so I can DESTROY YOU....

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:50 pm

Ummm... NO. Definitely NOT here in Seattle CURRENTLY...

Post by **Best First** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:21 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:"For every one of us, living in this world
means waiting for our end. Let whoever can
win glory before death. When a warrior is gone,
that will be his best and only bulwark. "

love it

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:06 pm

Gotta love old 'Wulfy. Fate is inexorable.

Over to the Second Generation TPB for The Gift

I couldn't help liking this one. Cheesy, but not as bad as Christmas Breaker, and full of good action. Jetfire's dilemma is quite relatable. The poor guy must get tired of hearing about "back on Cybertron… Remember Maccadam's? You could get a decaliter of fuel for one vorkblot! Remember that time in the ring when you grabbed Starscream by the diodes? Remember back on Cybertron…"

[This may or may be related to my sister's recent move to Seattle from New York, and her constant babbling about how much cheaper the food was in New York... and the drinks... and wah wah wah New York... DO NOT DISS MY S-TOWN!]

Will Simpson is getting better, actually. Nice to see. Some of his stuff in T2006 was positively stomach-wrenching.

Nice little story about the benefits of being an outsiders. James Hill… come back.

DJ_Convoy · Post by **DJ_Convoy** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:10 pm

Simpson, like Jeff Anderson, needs a sympathetic inker, I think. I was paging thru the Fallen Angel tpb last nite and found the Anderson/Baskerville chapter to be alright, but the final chapter with Anderson (can't recall who inked him there) to be awful. It looked like a coloring book!

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:50 pm

bumblemusprime wrote: Will Simpson is getting better, actually. Nice to see. Some of his stuff in T2006 was positively stomach-wrenching.

It's not Will, it's Martin Griffiths.

bumblemusprime wrote: Me getting the artists wrong is part of the charm of this thread. Really...

Indeed.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:26 pm

To the Prey TPB!

Prey/The Harder They Die/Under Fire:

Awesome to get some character development re Prime. I have such a vicious envy of UK readers. You got a long moment with Prime before he was compressed into 8 bits of suck. This and "Resurrection" are a nice way to remember Prime, ensuring that you will have something to reread besides "Afterdeath."

This is the way to write Prime too. Alone and tested against hordes of Decepticons, with one ally, who may be a little bit mentally challenged. Outback… something tells me that he shouldn't be allowed to the bathroom on his own.

You can't blame Prime for being pissed at his troops in the beginning. They did make a major hash of the Galvatron affair.

His contrived solution is… eh, for storytelling purposes it kinda works. Kinda. More importantly, it gets him busted for his hubris, and he ends up in the harsh guerilla war on Cybertron.

Prime kicks Predacon ass, don't he? And Jeff Anderson, despite some stiff figures, really does have a great sense of composition. We end with him holding his only ally, isolated from the Autobots, quite possibly facing death. It's not quite the stakes in T2006--after all, at this point we don't believe that Prime will die--but it's a real dramatic moment.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:01 pm

The Harder They Die is one of my favourite single issues ever. Really beautifully written and drawn stuff.

But the whole Prime faking his own death plot that kicks the whole thing off is shaky at best.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:16 pm

Yeah. The best thing about it is that Simon makes him pay for such a stupid move. I don't mind it so much when the writer turns around and shows us, "I'm not the one being stupid. It's the character being stupid. Watch him pay for his stupidity!"

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:11 pm

Distant Thunder!

Weird. Not sure if this one works. I was flipping through this TPB and wondering why there were cyborg apes. I like the pep talk from Prime, though it serves the strange purpose of resolving a story that really should have been resolved through action.

Will Simpson is slowly getting better. His panels aren't as crowded and his characters aren't so full of strange proportions.

Optimus is inspired to give the requisite speech, and Xaaron gives him a nice big robot hug.

Do robots hug? Aw, who cares. Let em hug.

As a conclusion to a killer arc like "Prey," this is a wimp-out. Hey, you know how our hero has nearly been vivisected by his own troops, and is on the outs in a dangerous place? We will solve that with a pep talk and frame story about learning to value life with cyborg apes!

That said, as a pep talk and frame story re learning to value life, it's about the best one could hope for. And it answers the question of where characters go when they get time-switched. I like that the time-travel in Simon's run is not without a price.