Marvel UK comics marathon

Over the last 25 years the Transformers have appeared in media from the exquisite to the scribbled and been licensed to the responsible and the... Pat Lee. Discussion of all the branches of TF media within!

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Post by bumblemusprime » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:39 pm

"State Games!"

Where is James Hill these days? He was really a serious resource on the TFs, and one I never really knew. This is a great bit of storytelling that cries out for a comic adaptation. The situation is rather grim as Megatron and Op are forced together at the height of their political bickering, and the suspense is drawn out as we wait to see what will happen to Overlord.

In hindsight, it seems somewhat contrived to force the two together, but given that our government nearly shut down over a budget crisis that may or may not actually exist, and could be fixed if corporations paid their taxes, hey, Cybertron's government can be stupid if it wants to.

(Eight-year-old Spencie would like the world to know that he is now bored. Shut up. This matters.)

And the uh... the other text stories in annual 86! I read em! Sure I did. They were...

Texty!
Last edited by bumblemusprime on Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:05 pm

The Ic... actually, first a note on these Titan reprints.

Oh, Titan reprints.

You can't blame 'em. It's obvious that they were only trying to reprint the most popular stories first, thinking that reprints of the entire 332/80+G2 runs would never sell.

In the US reprints, this was not really a bad thing, since they simply started with Primal Scream, Matrix Quest, All Fall Down and End of the Road, then went to Beginnings and The New Order, and then just kept going.

In the UK reprints, though, they started with Target 2006, then Fallen Angel, then Space Pirates, then Legacy of Unicron, and then Time Wars. Thus the entire Galvatron arc was reprinted... and then they released City of Fear, Prey, Dinobot Hunt and Second Generation.

And Fallen Star, Way of the Warrior, Aspects of Evil, Earthforce and Perchance to Dream are all over the place.

So in order to read these in order, I get to bounce around the trades. Forgive this humble servant if he gets confused.

The Icarus Theory!

This one really must have stood out from the US pack. In the first issue, a human mind-controls a Transformer--blahh--but then he uses it to KILL another human!

The best moment, of course, is Prime's direct order to Swoop, awakening the deep loathing of authority all Dinobots possess. Eight-year-old Spencie is in solidarity with such a thing, being possess of an older sister who is, he is quite sure, a Decepticon.

Professor Morris' murder of the guard really sets an unpredictable tone, so that in the end, as Swoop stands over him, you really wonder where this will go. An Autobot won't kill a human... will he?

Kitson is one of the best of the mid-tier UK artists. There are some great shots here, though few of them are super-dynamic. Swoop and Morris' face-off is the best, especially when Morris looks up, horrified, and Swoop says, "You're dead."

Simon ties it all together quite neatly with the Icarus metaphor, and although thirty-year-old Spencie thought the intro was cheesy, eight-year-old Spencie is quite convinced that nothing in literature could be as brilliant as "There are no fish in Lake Dena."

He's fishing... BUT HE'S ANGRY!
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by spiderfrommars » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:21 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:And the uh... the other text stories in annual 86! I read em! Sure I did. They were...

Texty!
As far as I rememember (which is what I meant to say in my last post but I typed AFAIK which is, obviously, wrong) most of the other Annual text stories don't fit into canon. There's a reason no one talks about them anymore.
bumblemusprime wrote: This one really must have stood out from the US pack. In the first issue, a human mind-controls a Transformer--blahh--but then he uses it to KILL another human!
Probably the most violent scene in the original run. Good to see it happen though - never did in Bob's US stories. Where's the collateral damage?

The Icarus Theory has this weird undercurrent of sadness laced through it. Morris really is a tragic character. And I remember the script being quite poetic. The story left me quite disturbed if I'm honest.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:08 pm

It's really a tragic story, and fantastically well-done as a tragedy. Morris remains a sympathetic character all throughout In The National Interest.

Dinobot Hunt!/Victory!

Furman kicks it into high gear here. Turns it up to eleven. Gives it a full proctology exam with cocaine.

More metaphors. Etc.

This is a rockin story that leaves us in another dark place with the Dinobots. Furman's built a lot of sympathy for these lugs at this point, and "Victory!" which steals the artistic show, is easily one of his best and most unexpected conclusions so far.

The Dinobots stay in a mental limbo, where they do ******* awesome things like chop Megatron in half, then mow down Starscream. But they are still stuck in a mental limbo, battling their way through every threat they've ever faced, after this full storyarc in which they are mind-controlled and wasted by both Autobots and Decepticons. We must wonder if they will make it back.

Kitson's art is solid and spacious. It provides great dynamics and detail. Simpson's... not so much. Senior blows every representation of the Transformers so far away. Nothing, nothing, NOTHING so far compares to "Victory."

Be quiet, eight-year-old Spencie.

I begin to think that there are a few key ingredients to get a good Furman arc:

1. Shared framework for individual issues. This isn't necessarily key, but it makes for some of the best--as in "Digging my own grave!" in Target 2006. The individual frames for each Dinobot story create a tiered sense of purpose, in which one frame story compliments another.

2. Darkness. Death. Real nasty stakes for the very souls of the robots.

3. Sympathy for robots as well as humans. You can't do Icarus Theory or Dinobot Hunt without Morris and Joy Meadows, but the Dinobots are just as important as characters, and we don't need a human for "Victory" when we can feel Ratchet's doctoral compassion.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by spiderfrommars » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:25 pm

Victory is so awesome in almost every single way that every writer or artist that ever sits down to work on a Transformers comic should be forced to read it first.

Simply stunning.

It's worth remembering how little comics work Furman had done by this point. And barely a year before he was writing tripe like Raiders of the Last Ark. Shortly he'd be embarking on Target 2006. Some of the narrative tricks he was using at this point make me wonder if he was soaking up some Alan Moore at the time (Swamp Thing perhaps?)

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Post by bumblemusprime » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:57 am

Robot Buster/Devastation Derby/Second Generation

The story starts with promise. Buster might be a bit annoying, but the scene where he shoots Frenzy, gloats and promptly gets his ass kicked is priceless.

As I've always said, even when the humans in a TF story include a near-naked Megan Fox, they are still not as interesting as the robots. And Buster gets less and less interesting in his fainting spells. The dream sequence had its cool moments, but eventually Simon is forced to slip into full-on toy commercial mode...

And what a commercial it is. I half expected Prime to reach down his robo-pants and spank the robot monkey after the fourth or fifth time he gushed "SPECIAL TEAMS!"

It ends in a humiliating mess, as Jeff Anderson begins his TF career by drawing Megs and Shockwave in a... slap fight. A slap fight that must be broken up by Soundwave, who essentially says, "Look at what you're doing! You're only hurting yourselves!" Robo-tears, Soundwave. All this needs is some mid-tempo emo ballad.

Reading this has exponentially increased my appreciation for Bob. Simon was asked to do a glorified toy commercial and he produced one of the most humiliating stories of his run.

Bob did a toy commercial every three damn issues! Shockwave in 5, Dinobots in 8, Constructicons in 10, Jetfire in 11, Hoist & co in 14, Blaster & co in 17, Aerialbots in 21, Protectobots in 24, Predacons in 25, Trypticon in 27... good Primus, does it go on!

The fact that Bob was able to shovel a thousand new OMG SO COOL characters into his story and STILL produce good work is a testament to the fact that the guy really has talent. "Second Generation" is a terrible mess, apparently because Simon was bereft of his usual time allotted to developing real personalities for the TFs.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:17 am

In The National Interest (Sinister Music!)

After reaming him out for Second Generation, I must turn around and give Simon big fat props for making Triple-I a genuinely scary institution, which Bob could never do. They always seemed so stupid in the US run, unable to recognize the TF factions as they were. Here Triple-I is more of a corrupt system. The suits want to stay in power... in the national interest, of course.

Professor Morris is busted out of his trial by dudes in ski masks, given a killer robot suit, and sent to kill the TFs. Nice setup. He makes for a swell anti-hero as he decides to lock himself in the suit in order to take revenge. Also, his sanity appears to be degenerating. In a good way.

Joy Meadows is, like Blackrock, a sympathetic human because she is proactive in advancing the Autobot cause. Sludge's crush is a little silly, but the Dinobots are real Dinobots about it. "A sad case. Nothing to be done about it really."

Other than the silly bit where Swoop bites Megatron's head, eight-year-old Spencie is quite pleased with the carnage. And though he will not discover Fugazi and the Clash for ten years, he pretends he understands when I say that the Dinobots are punk rock.

The downside is Simpson's art. I cannot warm to this guy. He reminds me of Manny Galan. He just doesn't seem comfortable drawing robots. A lot of people, even old wobbly-pen Dan Reed, found a comfort zone with the TFs. Simpson is searching and will continue to search.

And oh sheeeeyit...

It's time for Target 2006.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by Best First » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:20 am

MOTHER F*CKING JINGLE BELLS!
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Post by Guest » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:16 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:The dream sequence had its cool moments, but eventually Simon is forced to slip into full-on toy commercial mode...
Does it make it better or worse for Simon if it's brought to light that he DID a toy commercial leaflet story about the Special Teams, that was free with UK #54, and it's from this that the dream sequence was taken? Most of the art and plot were already there. It just got a little fleshed out with a wrapper.

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Post by Best First » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:57 pm

worse i think.
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Post by bumblemusprime » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:50 pm

Yeah, I'm surprised y'all Brits didn't mistake it for an issue of the US comic--and a bad one at that.

Target...

Uh, hold.

Imma need to stare at this cover for a while.

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Kudos to IDW for reprinting this and all... but the Titan version is worth any price just for the cover, and the newsprint-sized pages.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by Guest » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:05 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:Kudos to IDW for reprinting this and all... but the Titan version is worth any price just for the cover, and the newsprint-sized pages.
Over here, we call that normal-sized. ;)

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Post by DJ_Convoy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:09 pm

Only problem with the Titan reprints is that sometimes a page or two will be scanned VERY poorly. Other than that- they rule.
For now, it seems like IDW wants my money.

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Post by Best First » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:43 pm

i hope we are gonna do T: 2006 issue by issue.
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Post by bumblemusprime » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:51 pm

Vat is zis Ve, English pig-dog?

Also, DJ--welcome and I like your sig.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by DJ_Convoy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:53 pm

Howdy, and thanks. ;)
For now, it seems like IDW wants my money.

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Post by Best First » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:40 pm

Ah yes welcome - i was just reading your comments at IDW so it sorta didn't occur to me to say hello!
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Post by DJ_Convoy » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:49 pm

Thanks as well. Here, I don't have to be as nice as I do elsewhere!

Just kidding. Sorta. :D
For now, it seems like IDW wants my money.

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Post by Best First » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:03 pm

Sorta is fine!
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Post by spiderfrommars » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:26 pm

I really like Robot Buster. Some excellent characterisation of Shockwave in that (all that "emotion says otherwise" stuff - deep down he can be as illogical as any other Transformer.)

As for Devastation Derby - well, it lived up to the name. And it meant some proper Devastator action after his rather limp US debut and nice scenes for Soundwave and Smokescreen.

And I like the issues either side of the Special Teams dream sequence issue. But with Pt 2 Simon did try and introduce 24 new characters in 11 pages in an exciting way, and failed to an extent. Though we were pretty excited at the time right?

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Post by inflatable dalek » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:41 pm

Though I generally find it a terrible half arsed story Secod Generation does have that awesome bit in the dream sequence of Shockwave decapitating Ratchet. Which, when it was reused in one of the "Story so far" bits in a later Annual (ironically to represent the end of issue 4 where Ratchet not dying horribly is somewhat of a vital plot point) became a great favourite of mine.
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Post by bumblemusprime » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:42 am

I forgot in my list above that US 19 and US 23 were also toy commercials for Omega Supreme and the Battlechargers, respectively.

So, for the sake of the reprints that eight-year-old me never got, we shall take Target 2006 in 22-page installments, imagining that in the California heat of 1988, a new TF comic has arrived in Spencie's mailbox. We are doin thangs the Amerkin way, with 22 obese diabetic pages that will bring the democracy and bombs to you with a super-sized order of fries.

Target: 2006!

I really envy the Brits at this point. There are UK stories I like better than T2006, but no other story was so made to blow an eight-year-old's mind. I wish I'd had the chance to read and memorize it as a kid, instead of discovering it in a comic shop when I was 22. Although it was still fun to shout, "Holy ******* [composite word including 'f*ck']! Someone reprinted a UK TF story!" in the middle of a comic store.

Every panel, every line of dialogue in the first eleven pages is devoted to one grand principle:

Simon Is Ramping **** Up.

He kicks off four or five plot threads at once in an ambitious move to leave this second-tier US status behind. It starts off innocuously, with Prime's frustration at the Dinobots, and his claim that their forces are depleted. Shortly, though, we return to Cybertron for another guerilla war story. In a bloody and beautiful moment, Shrapnel murders an Autobot for information and we discover that the other Autobots left the guy to fry on purpose!

Prime vanishes in the middle of a pep talk, leaving only a pile of ash and extinguishing the Mystical Flame of Primeness.

And three nasty characters show up in the rain, from the future.

How much more awesome could eleven pages be?

Galvatron's confrontation with Megatron takes a nice twist on our expected slugfest with "Megatron cannot--must not--die!"

The Constructicons appear to consider one Decepticon leader to be as good as another. Gestalts are big on groupthink, I guess.

Simon yanks a skein from another plot thread as he leaves us with Ultra Magnus, determined to sit out Operation: Volcano in order to recover Optimus. Translation: Reader, you know Optimus will be back. These other Cybertronians you just met are ******.

Jeff Anderson turns in solid pencils, reminiscent of Kitson's strengths, even if his figures are a bit stiff.

So did you Brits read this before the movie came out, or was it contiguous?
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Post by Best First » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:57 am

before. About 10 years before in my case - damn you mother!
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Post by Ozz » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:03 am

bumblemusprime wrote:I forgot in my list above that US 19 and US 23 were also toy commercials for Omega Supreme and the Battlechargers, respectively.
And 22 for Stunticons. You know it's easier to list those that didn't introduce anyone? :o

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Post by Guest » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:29 am

bumblemusprime wrote:So did you Brits read this before the movie came out, or was it contiguous?
Before. T:2006 was published September - November 1986, while the movie didn't hit our cinemas until December 1986.

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Post by spiderfrommars » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:57 am

In other words... we didn't see a certain bombshell about Galvatron's true identity coming.

Though we did see Bombshell. He was in the Cybertronian scenes.

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Post by inflatable dalek » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:55 am

As I've written an insane amount about T:2006, I'll just link to that:
http://thecomicscode.weebly.com/target2006-part1.html

In short, mostly very very very good. Only real weakness is that the introduction of the Autobot triple changers is pretty much a half issue of irrelevant toy whoring (Springer and co show up, show off how awesome they are and the contribute nothing, not even standing about in the background as Volcano goes tits up).

Some lovely thematic stuff for a kids toy comic though, look how Senior mirrors a panel of Optimus fighting Megatron in the flash forward with Ultra Magnus fighting Galvatron in their big tussle (both Megs and Galvy having massive backblast on their canon).
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Post by spiderfrommars » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:20 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:As I've written an insane amount about T:2006, I'll just link to that:
http://thecomicscode.weebly.com/target2006-part1.html
Ta. I wasn't planning on doing any work this afternoon anyway.
inflatable dalek wrote: Only real weakness is that the introduction of the Autobot triple changers is pretty much a half issue of irrelevant toy whoring (Springer and co show up, show off how awesome they are and the contribute nothing, not even standing about in the background as Volcano goes tits up).
Impactor getting beaten up by them is a lovely scene though. And of course the epilogue sets Springer up as the new leader.

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Post by inflatable dalek » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:21 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:
Impactor getting beaten up by them is a lovely scene though. And of course the epilogue sets Springer up as the new leader.
Though the later makes you wonder what, say, Roadbuster was thinking at that moment. "Hey, I've been in the Wreckers for two million years, worked my way up ranks, made Impactor his cup of tea every morning and when it comes to picking his replacement the bugger goes for this guy who turned up two days ago and has only taken part in one mission that failed completely and utterly? You harpoon handed bastard. I'm glad you're dead".
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Post by spiderfrommars » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:24 pm

inflatable dalek wrote: Though the later makes you wonder what, say, Roadbuster was thinking at that moment. "Hey, I've been in the Wreckers for two million years, worked my way up ranks, made Impactor his cup of tea every morning and when it comes to picking his replacement the bugger goes for this guy who turned up two days ago and has only taken part in one mission that failed completely and utterly? You harpoon handed bastard. I'm glad you're dead".
Maybe he had good references. ;)

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