TF #8 Review (SPOILERS)

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:36 am

TF/Avengers? Not the worst TF comics after all.

"F"

Thank you.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:57 am

My. Favorite. Post. Ever.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:21 am

Jeezus.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:45 am

People who don't know how to add weight to a story shouldn't get to kill characters.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:08 am

People who do know how to SHOULD get to kill writers.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:59 pm

This issue is a personal affront to my intellect. It really is.

I mean, in the annals of ridiculous TF comic stories, most at least never took themselves seriously. Carwash of Doom. KingCon. Skullgrin in Hollywood.

This issue is worse than all of those together for the very reason it takes itself seriously.

Mike, no matter how hard you try to shove Spike down my throat, I will never swallow. Give me Verity. Give me movie Wheelie. Give me that ridiculous wrench-weilding Mechanic guy from Marvel.

But don't ever presume to give me tough-guy army general "Look, I can take down a Decepticon with my bare ******* hands" Spike.

Does not Costa see the charm in an unsuspecting teenage wet-behind-the-ears Spike who is forced to grow up early because of the trials he must face with the arrival of the Transformers? How do you beat a Spike (or Buster, as it were) of the early Marvel issues? You can't. That's how you make a human appealing. You make him like us. [composite word including 'f*ck'], even Bay got that part right.

You don't turn him into a half-ass super hero.

If you're going to play the human card, for [composite word including 'f*ck']'s sake, play it right.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:09 pm

The big misthink with this was starting with a character nobody likes and then trying to convince everyone to think again. Honestly. Fleshing out doesn't work if the skeleton is just an assbone.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:47 pm

I get that writing is a a difficult task. Pacing, dialog, etc is tough. Even somebody who has a talent for it can take criticism. Opinions can differ and people can argue.

This, though? This? I put the blame for this on everybody who happens to be above the writer. It's really hard for me to fault a writer for coming up with a ludicrous premise. A great writer can do AMAZING things with insane premises.

"You know those characters like Captain Atom, the Question and the Blue Beetle? I want to make them outgrow humanity, develop personality disorders, and battle erectile disfunction. Then, years later, I'm going to produce a series of hardcore fan-slash comics that are only available in a slipcased set of hardcovers."

Also, the ENTIRE RUN of what would ultimately be JLI.

However, when a writer says to his editor, "You know Devastator? I want to have that kid from G1 season 1 effectively kill him, you know, to show that he's a badass..." Well, at that point, it's up to the editor or ANYBODY ELSE to tell him that is a terrible idea, it will be hated by the fans, and will lose readers POST HASTE.

Let me spell this out for you, IDW.

Ahem.

We don't expect much. We want big (****ing) robots battling a civil war. We want these big (****ing) robots to have interesting personalities that lend (if you'll forgive the term) humanity to a never-ending war. You do not need the humans as an entry point. Transformers have been a part of our shared cultures for over a quarter of a century. We're WELL ADJUSTED to huge shape-shifting robots. It's not terribly difficult. Some guy they picked up off the street in the 80's wrote stuff you're STILL REPRINTING. Nobody (and the Prof means, NOBODY) is going to start reading a Transformers comic book because of the cool human heroes! That'd be like getting into Spider-Man because of Joe Freaking-Robertson!

Transformers! Robots! In Disguise! Who fight other robots! How do you make that uninteresting? When, the history of robots, has that been uninteresting? BY MAKING BUMBLEBEE'S PET TAKE GODDAMN DEVASTATOR OFF THE TABLE! That's how!

For Christ's sake, IDW! I bought every book (and every cover) that DREAMWAVE put out! I have a short white box that has (to my infinite shame) EIGHT DIFFERENT VERSION OF MICROMASTERS #1 At least three of them are the same cover with different foil stamps on them! Several of them I bought, at CONSIDERABLE expense AFTER I'd read how godawful the series was.

Do you get what I'm saying, here? Good. That's a start, because I have NO IDEA what you were going for with this book. None. I can not fathom it. I get what Michael Bay was going for with the last two TF movies, but I can not understand what series of events led to TF#8 being written, penciled, inked, lettered, published, and sent to retailers. Why would you do this? At least Micromaster Wrestling was (sort-of) mandated by Hasbro.

How did this come from the same company that gave us LSotW? Is blackmail involved? Does somebody have incriminating photos?

Well, I guess, thanks IDW, for making me type more in this one post than I have on this board in half a decade.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:16 pm

I'm assuming this is cross-posted, and someone has already called you a meanie.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:27 pm

Smooth for President!

...of IDW.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:58 pm

That was indeed decidedly epic.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:06 pm

I hope IDW have read this!

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:45 am

It dun gots too many of them thar words fer IDW's peoples.

IDW could only read smooth's post if it had half the words but took twenty posts to say. And digressed in the middle into a story of his other half sending him to the shops earlier today for groceries. Y'know, to humanise it.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:17 pm

They could read it if it were toned down to a careful query from an anxious schoolboy about to wetten his pants.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:31 pm

I just re-read Revelation.

What the hell was that?

Seriously, I remember now why I was so furious at IDW and I'm reassured in my decision not to buy Costa's series and I'm seriously thinking about a company-wide title drop.

Bludgeon shows up menacingly for two panels. Monstructor and Sixshot fights happen off-panel. Cyclonus is defeated in one tiny corner of a page . It is so obvious that so many Furman plotlines were squeezed down into that one Spotlight: Sideswipe. Amazingly, Furman pulled off a decent enough fate for Jhiaxus, Galvatron, Nemesis Prime and Sideswipe but NOTHING got the time or space it needed.

And yet Mike McNobodyPants gets an ongoing series in which he can wank on, issue after issue, for endless amounts of space. Ironhide can drive for three pages of just driving in his mini. Years of Furman's built-up stories went into Spotlight: Sideswipe, squished down into thirty measly pages because IDW just had to chase the elusive New Reader tail.

Do they care about their old readers? Maybe Andy does; he was smart enough to do Wreckers, Ongoing and Bumblebee as a triumvirate aimed at Old Reader, Everyone, Kids. But Ryall sure as hell didn't when he squished Revelation down.

All the old anger is back!

Post by **Best First** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:45 pm

i started reviewing this but lost it went my computer as a little paddy.

The review went a bit like this;

Spike issue 8 was rubbish.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:03 am

Until he becomes an integral part of Fortress Maximus, stop trying to make me care about Spike. Beyond that, stop trying to make me care about ANY human at the cost of the TRANSFORMERS. I'm serious. There was exactly ONE Transformer in this book and SPIKE killed it. That's an even more potent (and unintentional) metaphor than taking Hunter off of life support at the end of AHM.

For ****'s sake, Spike goes out of his way to tell the reader that ANY human with **** from under the sink can take out a Transformer. Who, exactly, do the writer and editor think this book is aimed at?

When you were leaving the theater after the TF movies, did you hear an overwhelming number of people saying, "That was okay, but it would've been way better if the stupid robots didn't hog all of Shia LeBouf's screen-time"?

Does he think that The Transformers themselves can't convey an emotional impact? How many times have you teared up at a death in Transformers fiction? Twice? How many times in the last twenty years? Once?

"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly."

Read it out loud. You're getting choked up RIGHT NOW aren't you?

How many humans were in that ENTIRE series? ZE-****-RO!

This isn't the movies. You don't NEED the human characters to trim the effects budget or to give the readers somebody to relate to. It's a comic book. People who read comic books (and BUY THEM) understand fiction!

Does the writer have any concept of the purpose of human characters in Transformers, giving the reader somebody to identify with? Both comic book and cartoon Spike were ordinary young adults. Their parents worked with their hands. G1 Spike's father was YOUR FATHER. This Spike is a ****ing special forces military badass who tears through women only slightly faster than he tears through shirts. Again, I don't know who the author thinks the target audience for Transformers comics is, but I can say, without even the slightest fear of contradiction, that we have a harder time relating to this Spike than we do to a talking truck that turns into a 10 meter alien robot.

For that, there's really no excuse.

Post by **snarl** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:22 pm

Read this today.

Christ.

Jesus titty ******* Christ.

****. Absolute dog ****.

What a ******* bunch of clowns.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:39 pm

Professor Smooth wrote: Who, exactly, do the writer and editor think this book is aimed at?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Lee

Ladies and gentlemen.. I give you Douchemus Prime.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:28 am

For just a moment, I thought about typing, "I dislike Spike even more than I dislike Pat Lee." After another moment of thought, I realized that's not true. But for just a moment, IDW, it was close.

Chew on that for a second.

Here's an idea to redeem Spike. Have him really be Pat Lee in disguise. Leak the reveal ahead of time. Solicit the issue with a Pat Lee variant cover so that it's under-ordered severely. Then, at the last moment, replace Pat Lee with Geof Senior, and have the issue written by the LSotW team (who have the real Spike show up to thwart Pat Lee Spike). Instant mega-collector's issue and massive demand for the trade.

There. On me. You're welcome.

(and you know what? That is the ONLY way you're going to make anyone care about Spike.)

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:08 pm

Oy. There are some real grumps on the IDW board, aren't there?

Post by **snarl** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:52 pm

Jeez, that guy Huffers stuntdouble is a barking mad ****.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:08 pm

I was thinking that I don't seem to post anything lately without Matrix getting grumpy about it. I'm not sure what's going on in the heads of the regulars there. All I can say is that I prefer my snarky old men (and Sades) here.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:09 am

bumblemusprime wrote:I was thinking that I don't seem to post anything lately without Matrix getting grumpy about it. I'm not sure what's going on in the heads of the regulars there. All I can say is that I prefer my snarky old men (and Sades) here.

GET OFF MY ******* LAWN!

Post by **snarl** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:56 am

As if you ever did, but I wouldn't worry about Matrix's grumbles - he's clearly a ******* idiot.

Anybody who'd defend issue 8 is. He's probably on the payroll.

The ongoing is clear ****, but he seems to be taking this personally and defending even the most absurd points. That ******* squirrel analogy? Give me ******* strength!

He's like the div dating a complete ****, with all his mates telling him she's a complete ****. "Ah, she sleeps around mate, she gave fat dave the aids, plus she doesn't wash down below". And he's like "oh, you don't know her like I do, we've got this connection."

But trust me, one day he'll come home to find 13 men, in a circle, janking one off over her.

Trust me.

And I don't know quite how that'll metamorphose as a plot in an iffy comic, but when it does, the penny will finally drop, it'll finally twig to even him, it's ****, he's been defending it, "holy [composite word including 'f*ck'], how stupid do I look"... and then his world will end. He'll be the most gutted man on the planet.

And that's when we all say "we told you so, you ignorant ****", point, and laugh.

With a bit of luck he doesn't know where I live, or anybody's phone number.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:32 am

My favourite quote on the IDW site this week

"I'm no apologist for IDW and neither are most people here"

Yes, yes they are.

"At least its not Micromasters!"

"At least it's not Victory!"

"There's some good stuff in there if you just look really really really really hard and ignore all the crappy stuff really really really really hard"

"Stop comparing the ongoing to LSOTW! You are groupies! lol"

And now here is a silly picture.

And now here is someone commenting on the silly picture and quouting the whole picture.

And now here is someone commenting on someone commenting on the silly picture and quouting the whole picture.

Its a big bag of really old cat's piss basically.

As for that Matrix chap, if i recall correctly he thinks issue 8 was a good character piece or something similar so i'd stop caring right there. Even the staples in issue 8 looked embarressed.

Post by **snarl** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:09 pm

In True IDW reply style

Best First wrote:My favourite quote on the IDW site this week

"I'm no apologist for IDW and neither are most people here"

Yes, yes they are.

"At least its not Micromasters!"

"At least it's not Victory!"

"There's some good stuff in there if you just look really really really really hard and ignore all the crappy stuff really really really really hard"

"Stop comparing the ongoing to LSOTW! You are groupies! lol"

And now here is a silly picture.

And now here is someone commenting on the silly picture and quouting the whole picture.

And now here is someone commenting on someone commenting on the silly picture and quouting the whole picture.

Its a big bag of really old cat's piss basically.

As for that Matrix chap, if i recall correctly he thinks issue 8 was a good character piece or something similar so i'd stop caring right there. Even the staples in issue 8 looked embarressed.

QFT, LOL!

I like the brilliant characterisation in this one - it's brilliant!

Also, I just ate a pot of jam with my fingers. My fingers are all sticky but I don't mind cos I really love jam. LOL!

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:48 pm

Ha hAA Jam.

Here is some Jam for you.

i bet your favourite Transformer is Cliff Jamper

LOL Smiley Face LOL

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:49 pm

Expect a phone call any minute now, guys. But if it's Mike Costa, let him cry it out. He's a sensitive lad.

Jack Cade · Post by **Jack Cade** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:22 pm

Best First wrote:"I'm no apologist for IDW and neither are most people here"

That was me! And I'm not! And I honestly think most of the 'apologists' have buggered off now. Just look at the #8 thread there - most of the regulars are really laying into it. The difference is that you have to do it in a polite way over there because you trap more wasps with honey than vinegar. In other words, Andy Schmidt regularly turns up and, at the very least, puts on a good show of listening to the complaints, as long as people aren't just raging at him. And I'll vouch for Andy - I complained about Tramp, on the board, basically called him a tosser, and instead of editing my posts like some of the other staff members used to, he sent me a PM asking me to explain in more detail what the problem was. Then he sent something to Tramp and Tramp magically disappeared (for the time being).

The thing about that thread is that it's true the comics have been mediocre at best - and that AHM was awful - but at the same time, this is a fanbase who went out to watch 'Revenge of the Fallen' multiple times. They didn't march out en masse to buy Last Stand of the Wreckers like they should have either. The thread's about why people aren't buying the comics and I don't think the reason is just that the Ongoing is a bit bum. As Snarl keeps saying, quite rightly, loads of Transformers fans have crap taste.