Marvel UK continuity question

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:28 am

So I was looking through some stuff over at the wiki, and noticed that A Small War! is set "fourteen months ago" but Thunderwing is Decepticon leader and he's creating the Decepticon Micromasters. Can this be squared with the rest of continuity, like Megs having Micromasters in Back From The Dead, or is it a massive black hole?

Didn't someone use to have a timeline for this sort of thing? Is it easily explainable?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:31 am

Time Wars?

The Scarlet Witch?

I have no idea. Continuity really went to hell the moment Furmo was in charge of both books, didn't it?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:36 am

Rebis had a timeline i think?

But i think this may be a fubar.

or a furbar snort snort.

Sigh.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:10 pm

Feh, there was I thinking I could make it all work, but I think T-wing has to become Decepticon leader twice now...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:16 pm

The way I see it, Thunderwing and Megatron's positions on Cybertron are analogous to Megatron and Shockwave's positions on Earth earlier on, with the former being the guy in charge and the latter keeping a low profile until he's ready to strike.

I'd have to read the issues again, but as far as I can recall, Thunderwing isn't that successful with his Micromaster developments, whereas by the time Megatron comes back in the comics, there's at least 2 Decepticon teams out there. Whether Megatron took over an abandoned ruins of Thunderwing's labs or not is anyone's guess, although, because there's also the Pretender tech, it's possible that that's what he did.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:17 pm

Haven't read this in yonks, so haven't got a definitive answer here. From what I remember, it means Thunderwing must have become Acting Commander not long after Salvage. Megatron doesn't create any Micros so their recruitment to his cause can happily happen after A Small War I think. Megs would've been wandering the Dead End a long time.

Discussing discrepencies in the Marvel run sure is more fun than dissecting the IDW continuity mess isn't it?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:56 pm

ah, hang on - i know the answer.

Lets just insert a 12 month period anywhere there are continiuity muck ups.

so Earth Force is 12 months after the end of G1.

and then G2 is 12 months after Earthforce.

And Omega Supreme was on holiday for 12 months while T2006 was happening.

and then ANYTHING that happened in between is accounted for in the 12 month gap - a time period so long we all know ANYTHING can happen.

score!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:13 pm

Of course, being British, we have to use our own system of measurement, resulting in 14 month gaps.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:35 pm

Rebis wrote:Of course, being British, we have to use our own system of measurement, resulting in 14 month gaps.

Resulting in a total of 26 months in which it can all be explained away.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:01 pm

Imperialists.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:19 am

Bloody colonials...

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:35 am

Best First wrote:ah, hang on - i know the answer.

Lets just insert a 12 month period anywhere there are continiuity muck ups.

so Earth Force is 12 months after the end of G1.

and then G2 is 12 months after Earthforce.

And Omega Supreme was on holiday for 12 months while T2006 was happening.

and then ANYTHING that happened in between is accounted for in the 12 month gap - a time period so long we all know ANYTHING can happen.

score!

Lol.

(Incidentally my collection neatly has earthforce placed side by side with the main strip right up to matrix quest, the continuity seems to fit)

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:22 pm

hmmm, now where did i put that timeline diagram i made years ago...

[edit]

can't find my diagram... but here's the thread where we were talking about stuff...

http://transfans.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4889

i might sit down and make a proper big diagram/chart with dates and everything... that'll be fun and a bloody good excuse to re-read marvel G1 again!

[/edit]

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:49 pm

You need an excuse?

Also - my few cents on that thread - I always considered the TV/AoE and RoD futures to be vaiants on the future that was created by all the time travelling. So that when Rodimus and the others returned to the future, the most likely future at that point was one where Galvatron never travelled back in time, a future that as the present day stories diverged more and more from the movie timeline slid more and more towards Unicron winning outright. That future would have been on track right up until Unicron snatched Galvatron from it, Galvatron becoming instrumental in the events leading to Unicron's DEFEAT, giving us the End of the Road -> G2 timeline.

HOWEVER - since reading this stuff again I've been spending all day identifying timelines and points at which they diverge/storylines cross over, and I think I've nicely got five distinct timelines identified now, with various other stories likely shoehorned into one of those five, and some overlap between timelines here and there where events were the same in both.
I'll finish the spreadsheet cross-referencing issues of the comic and backup strips by date and timeline, and post it along with a graphical representation when I finish it. In case anyone's as big a continuity and timelines geek as me when it comes to stories like this.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:38 pm

DAMN YOU ALL!

I thought I'd neatly gotten over my OCD fascination with fitting timelines of any comic series you care to mention together.
Then you bring this micromaster thing up and I realise I'd never completed my Transformers timeline. AND NOW I'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR THE LAST FEW DAYS.

Still not got an answer to your question, HOWEVER I am making moves. Right here are my current timelines for the UK G1 run, I'm working on a website explaining it all in detail. Some comics ARE listed out of order here due to me lumping together large sections that I've not yet fully organised chronologically, as well as it not yet including the annuals or several of the backup strips I've not arranged into it yet.

*EDIT* - REMOVED AS NEWER MORE UP TO DATE VERSION POSTED BELOW

** Savvy observers will have noticed an error here - corrected in the actual spreadsheet on my system - in placing Legacy of Unicron. It *does* in fact occur in timeline A, after the movie. Timeline B is created by TWO key events. One is Cyclonus and Scourge returning to the past via Unicron's time portal. This circumvents the mass-displacement process, this in itself would NOT necessarily cause any major changes to the timeline. Not until Fallen Angel, when Galvatron arrives. At this point, events are set in motion causing Shockwave to have Megatron kill Cyclonus, and face Megatron. Thus it *could* be argued that Headmasters too takes place in timeline A. It's all a work in progress so will take longer to finish. However one place where I must disagree with many people is that I firmly believe Target 2006 caused NO changes to the timeline, instead being a predestination paradox, based on Unicron planting the idea ofr Autobot City's location, and cyclonus and scourge REMEMBERING target 2006 when confronted in 2007. I recognise that this would ALWAYS have made the movie, Target 2006, and Time Wars Galvatrons Straxatron. I see no issue with this. In fact it nicely ties in to the more lucid Galvatrons we see from various futures subsequently, once the Time Wars timeline is no more.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:31 pm

Interesting.

I also spent most of Saturday, sadly, refining my interpretation of the timelines through the wonders of Excel.

Although, I used it as a catalyst for HTML, rather than just print-screening the spreadsheet.

Here it is.

Only problem with Excel-to-HTML is the amount of redundancy it generates in its code, but it was a lot easier than trying to manually format the thing, I can tell you.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:35 pm

Ironic how the only real change to the timeline which turned it from the Rhythms of Darkness future to the Alignment future was Unicron using Galvatron. If only he'd not bothered grabbing him from the future there, he'd have been pretty well set to WIN. But Galvatron was pretty set on his OWN plans for the future.

Footbullet deluxe.

*EDIT*
Updated -

The timelines, with divergence points (Origin of time travellers and point at which they changed history):
Timelines
My full spreadsheet, a work in progress:
List of Issues

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:06 pm

yay! timelines!

sorry Sunyavadin, i can't seem to get to yours, your host name isn't resolving for me for some reason?

and Rebis... very nice! however, i'm not in total agreement with you

Firstly, i am not seeing 'flashback' as being that much of a point of diverenge (not in the greater scheme of things anyway). I certainly don't think it's the 'Earthforce/no Earthforce' splitting point.
Here's my thinking... The whole 'Surivors' arc would take place after Time Wars, regardless of whether Megs manages to save the Seacons or not. Also, the Megs in Earthforce isn't quite bonkers enough to be the Straxatron one, which your timeline indicates he would be. If anything, if Meg's little trip to save SnapTrap and co had worked, it would have probably had led into a never seen Timeline where the Seacons weren't doing good impressions of deep fried Calamari.

Secondly, Aspects of Evil: Galvatron (and the follwing Dark Roddy arc) should be divergent from a different point as it's made fairly clear that what with the TimeWars fixed, Galvy had never jumped back (in Fallen Angel - which is the divergent point - a slightly different version of (your) Timeline 1 would then unfold (Operation:Volcano wouldn't happen, but with some elements of Timeline 2 too) leading up to a version of 'the movie' and subsequently 'legacy of unicron'. No TimeWars prologue and No Space Pirates though and then leading up to 'aspects:galvatron'.
This is perhaps the most complicated timeline as we have to work out which elements of Timeline 2 would have still occured (more of less) without Fallen Angel having done so... things like Headmasters must have (future (Aspects) Roddy remembers having a TargetMaster) although there would be no Cyc/Scourge there. Stargazing would have (as an epilogue of T:2006). Although not everything can as it still has to lead up to a future where Unicron's head ends up on Junk after having created Galv and co and Roddy gets hold of the Matrix after Prime's death...
Also, sadly, Death's Head would never get invovled

Also, Deathbringer is likely to happen in all Timelines that descend from your timeline 2 as it's an basically an after affect of Funeral for a friend.

I will get around to putting together my own timeline though... you've inspired me now!

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:33 pm

Odd - I can get to it fine.
Hmmm... the most annoying thing there is that on several points we seem to be in agreement, so my timeline may gel a little more with your perspective than Rebis' one...

There are a lot of things everyone can agree on, but several which will always cause debates.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:05 am

Legion wrote:and Rebis... very nice! however, i'm not in total agreement with you

Firstly, i am not seeing 'flashback' as being that much of a point of diverenge (not in the greater scheme of things anyway). I certainly don't think it's the 'Earthforce/no Earthforce' splitting point.
Here's my thinking... The whole 'Surivors' arc would take place after Time Wars, regardless of whether Megs manages to save the Seacons or not. Also, the Megs in Earthforce isn't quite bonkers enough to be the Straxatron one, which your timeline indicates he would be. If anything, if Meg's little trip to save SnapTrap and co had worked, it would have probably had led into a never seen Timeline where the Seacons weren't doing good impressions of deep fried Calamari.

Secondly, Aspects of Evil: Galvatron (and the follwing Dark Roddy arc) should be divergent from a different point as it's made fairly clear that what with the TimeWars fixed, Galvy had never jumped back (in Fallen Angel - which is the divergent point - a slightly different version of (your) Timeline 1 would then unfold (Operation:Volcano wouldn't happen, but with some elements of Timeline 2 too) leading up to a version of 'the movie' and subsequently 'legacy of unicron'. No TimeWars prologue and No Space Pirates though and then leading up to 'aspects:galvatron'.
This is perhaps the most complicated timeline as we have to work out which elements of Timeline 2 would have still occured (more of less) without Fallen Angel having done so... things like Headmasters must have (future (Aspects) Roddy remembers having a TargetMaster) although there would be no Cyc/Scourge there. Stargazing would have (as an epilogue of T:2006). Although not everything can as it still has to lead up to a future where Unicron's head ends up on Junk after having created Galv and co and Roddy gets hold of the Matrix after Prime's death...
Also, sadly, Death's Head would never get invovled

Also, Deathbringer is likely to happen in all Timelines that descend from your timeline 2 as it's an basically an after affect of Funeral for a friend.

Hmm. I see what you're saying.

Maybe it's an inference on your part, or a lack of implication on mine, but for reasons of clarity and uncertainty, I have omitted placing events in multiple timelines ("Operation Volcano" aside), instead placing these events in the timeline I think the 'viewed' version is most likely to have happened in.

For example, "Transformers: The Movie", being some similar event to the animated version, is best put on Timeline 1, due to its references in Target: 2006 and Fallen Angel. It does not prevent other versions having happened in Timelines 2 and 4.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:20 am

Yes, I'd say any timeline with Rodimus Prime and Galvatron, we can definitely say some sort of event analogous to the movie occured.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:42 am

Rebis wrote:For example, "Transformers: The Movie", being some similar event to the animated version, is best put on Timeline 1, due to its references in Target: 2006 and Fallen Angel. It does not prevent other versions having happened in Timelines 2 and 4.

Man, I'd love to see the ****** up version of the movie that occurs in your timeline 4, man that'd be surreal...

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:58 am

Rebis wrote:Here it is.

It works except that The Big Shutdown, Rage and Assault on the Ark have to take place before A Small War, but it still doesn't explain how Thunderwing and Megatron could both be Decepticon leader...

[edit] but many thanks for that, I really really need a reference at the moment

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:25 pm

Legion wrote:
Rebis wrote:For example, "Transformers: The Movie", being some similar event to the animated version, is best put on Timeline 1, due to its references in Target: 2006 and Fallen Angel. It does not prevent other versions having happened in Timelines 2 and 4.
Man, I'd love to see the ****** up version of the movie that occurs in your timeline 4, man that'd be surreal...

Hmmm... No decepticon attack on Autobot city, instead Unicron finds the deactivated Megs who was aboard the Ark, rather than sending Hook, Line and sinker to find Galvy in the future... No future Galvatron means no Xaaron waking Primus, as the present day Galvatron would have no reason to hate Unicron for enslaving him twice, and also would likely not know the details about Primus. So instead of the earthbound events of the movie we have the events of All this and Civil War 2 continuing, since Primus doesn't summon them to Cybertron. This could be where Prime is killed. Targetmaster Hot Rod grabs the matrix during Thunderwing's attack, after Unicron kills Thunderwing, but is unable to use it to defeat Unicron due to its coruption. Rodimus Prime ends up dead on Earth, strung up.....

This is a pretty damn interesting hypothetical chain of TF:TM events. And that's just what I can come up with off the top of my head in 5 minutes...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:54 pm

OK.

Although I don't agree with this, here's what I've come up with taking into account the divergence starting with Fallen Angel instead of Target: 2006 and removing Flashback as a point of divergence.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:50 pm

Rebis wrote:OK.

Although I don't agree with this, here's what I've come up with taking into account the divergence starting with Fallen Angel instead of Target: 2006 and removing Flashback as a point of divergence.

Oops, no wait, both T:2006 AND Fallen Angel are Divergences...

I'll have a stab at working this out tonight and i'll post it up here what I mean.

Sunyavadin · Post by **Sunyavadin** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:01 pm

Tell you what, let's all just accept the Kiss Players consolidation of all the continuities and be done with it, yeah?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:57 pm

Legion wrote:I'll have a stab at working this out tonight and i'll post it up here what I mean.

Download the file. It should open in Excel as-is, as it was generated by Excel.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:52 pm

Oh poo, i think i've broken my brain...

My Attempt

I've ended up with Timelines A-J (many of which we've never actually seen!) and i've just realised i've not taken into account the 'unseen' timeline in Flashback (had Megatron succeeded) - also i've left out Peace and Another Time, Another Place.

Peace is a tricky one and i'm not 100% certain where to put that one yet. Another Time, Another Place will probably sit in Timeline J, however i'm really unhappy with the amount of problems the whole Earthforce timeline highlights...

But I have also had a stab at answering the whole Thunderwing/Megatron leadership thing...

Hopefully not too many straws have been clutched at... but my brain hurts now...

[/url]

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:51 pm

Where's Generation 2?