Much Ado About Megatron #5 Review (SPOILERS)

[arkonseal]

Its just been brewing for a while.

AHM has gotten it in the neck from a lot of fairly articulate people, with nothing decent released in the interim to cover up its guffness.

So it's eared IDW some real, consistent criticism, which I think coming off the back of a love fest has got some of the creators' backs up.

Then there are just a load of ***** who think it's good, they're the kind of happy, clappy vocal minority ****s that piss everyone else off... So throw it all into the melting pot, leave to stew for about 4 months...

And there's been some flare ups.

I know all this, I'm a member over there (different name, teehee), I was just wondering if there had been a recent meltdown, or a single thread that prompted such a dramatic response. Between derailing, deletions and thread-locking, it's getting a bit hard to follow who said what where.

[Cattleprod]

They're in the publishing business, they're never going to admit that a negative response to a product might be due to flaws in the product. So instead we get damage control, in the form of AHM tying in close to previous stories, as they "planned all along".

Only it seems not tying into past stories was a major complaint from day one, and they're only mentioning it now? If they're being 100% truthful and it was always the plan, then it means they WANTED to annoy readers to start off, and again, they have no reason to be surprised by the response. Since intentionally annoying customers sounds like a pretty poor business practice, it's so much easier to believe it's simply damage control after the fact.

[Denyer]

Shame. Denton hasn't come across as a cock in most respects previous to this, if a bit PR-minded.

[arkonseal]

Only it seems not tying into past stories was a major complaint from day one, and they're only mentioning it now? If they're being 100% truthful and it was always the plan, then it means they WANTED to annoy readers to start off, and again, they have no reason to be surprised by the response. Since intentionally annoying customers sounds like a pretty poor business practice, it's so much easier to believe it's simply damage control after the fact.

I've wondered about that. It may not have made business sense to start yet another continuity, so I can follow the choice to tack it on to the existing one - but efforts to connect AHM to the 'Tions seems to have stopped with the announcement that AHM is one year after Revelation. For all the assurances that all will be explained and things will tie in to the previous series, it's glaringly obvious that AHM (at least, the issues that I've seen) was planned and written as its own thing, with absolutely no intention to be part of the previous continuity. I can't understand why they didn't make at least a few tweaks to back up the assertion that it's otherwise.

[Jack Cade]

They're in the publishing business, they're never going to admit that a negative response to a product might be due to flaws in the product.

I ask, rhetorically: why not? I mean, obviously, I understand your reasoning, but when they were actually, in effect, *apologising* for the technical and printing errors and saying they would improve them in future, that generated a lot of good will.

Apples and oranges, I know, but I still don't accept that there's any necessity lying behind their current attitude. If the line was, "We understand people's reasons for being disappointed but we genuinely feel this will play out well, and we think our story's great," that would be a case of 'Fair enough, they're trying to sell comics'. And to an extent, that was the front they kept up for a while.

The problem, for me, starts with them switching to an attitude of, "Oh, well, it's a shame people are disappointed but then, fans always whinge and there's nothing we can do about it, so screw 'em." That philosophy has been hinted at through Ryall's posts several times, and he more-or-less confirmed it to me in private messaging. I put it to him that it's fairly contemptuous of your audience to regard all their complaints and criticisms as one big collective discontentment, and that there's a massive difference between moaning about 'Sunny' and Sideswipe not being depicted as gay/brothers and feeling shortchanged because the ending of a story has been rammed into too short a space.

Obviously, he didn't get back to me on that point. His and DJT's problem is not only that they seem to regard all IDW's critics as twittering hatchlings who just need a meal regurgitated into their mouths (rather than individuals with points of differing weight and substance) but also that they can't tell the difference between 'I want this' criticism and 'This story doesn't work' criticism. It's all just, "Tell 'em what they want to hear and maybe they'll shut up for a day or two."

And my dispute with each of them comes from a complete reluctance on their part to relinquish the high and mighty ground and talk on equal terms. As far as they're concerned, if you're in conflict with them, you simply *must* be the fly in the ointment, and their job is to 'deal with you'. No possibility whatsoever of an open-minded discussion.

And I can't put that down to being in the publishing business. It's just a bad attitude. If you have too much on your plate to take the time to see eye to eye with critics, then you stay at a safe distance and don't engage with them at all. You don't make a show of hands-on forum management and use it as an opportunity to play headmaster.

[Cattleprod]

I was by no means trying to justify what they were doing... and jeez, now I'm making the exact same argument I was making there when I was accused of being violently opposed to Drift.

They're not going to say AHM was fundamentally flawed, especially while it's still being published. That just strikes me as common sense. There was over a year of them quietly ignoring Megatron Origin before they came out and said "okay, maybe it's not canon."

[Jack Cade]

Sorry - the volume and vigour of my response was in no way an indication of its opposition to yours. I was picking up on a small point and going off on a tangent.

But when you say, "They're not going to say AHM was fundamentally flawed, especially while it's still being published", it's slightly different to: "They're in the publishing business, they're never going to admit that a negative response to a product might be due to flaws in the product."

I think there's quite a gap between admitting something isn't flawless, and that the flaws *might* be the reason for the negative response, and calling your own product 'fundamentally flawed'. I agree with you that the latter is extremely unlikely, but I think the former is a realistic course of action.

*edit* Sorry for the soapboxing everyone.

[Best First]

S'ok - its like a pre-menopause Denyer.

In terms of the tweaks - what gets me is it would not have been that hard - a few acknolwdgements that previous protocal was out the window and all bets are off (you could cover that, and the whole invasion on NYC in 2-3 pages) and don't go for this - no one knows who they are guff, its not like it added to the story.

And keep characterisation a bit more in line.

Non of it would have had a material impact on the plot. Which makes it more irritating.

[Brendocon]

Non of it would have had a material impact on the plot.

Well no. Mostly because the plot to-date can be summarised in about two lines. And that's if you're a wordy bastard like me.

[Best First]

i think it also would have really added to this 'state of mystery' that the series is supposed to have.

Its almost amusing - people are saying "it doesn't fit" and then the response is "ah, but you are supposed to feel that way" but for that to work properly it would make a lot more sense to show what the previous status quo was - and again this doesn't have to be done in a way that puts off new readers, changing direction can be done without jettesoning the past - if anything that would be a far more interesting story.

Of course, once you get into squad/team makeup it really goes out the window.

[Brendocon]

it would make a lot more sense to show what the previous status quo was - and again this doesn't have to be done in a way that puts off new readers

Yup. Just a glance at the "how it was / how it is" opening of Max Dinos illustrates all that's necessary. And the first few pages of AHM #1 really don't cut it in that regard.

Open with a flashback to the end of Devastation, with the Decepticon presence on Earth rumbled by the US government and the Autobots doing their cut-and-run... caption of "THEN", segue into the Decepticons razing NYC with a "NOW" and finish the first issue the way they already did.

The story then functions in its own right, but has an overarching intrigue of "well how did we get from one state of affairs to the other." Rather than the sense of "well this makes chuff all sense, screw it" that most of us were instilled with.

Hearts of Steel made no sense with the rest of the continuity, but that was okay because nobody tried passing it off as being in the same timeline.

"Oh, it fits."
"Prove it."
"No."

[Jack Cade]

Interesting remarks on Denton's Q&A thread:

"AHM is part of something much larger. It's the first step in the new direction that we have been working closely with Hasbro to establish. And I'm really excited to help bring that vision to fruition."

Working closely with Hasbro, eh? Possible scenario:

"How's it going with the comics, guys?"
"Not bad. We're about to move onto ..."
"That's great. Really. Listen. Shuffle all that to one side. Let's talk about the vision."

As others have said, part of what's frustrating is how easy it would have been to make the move less irksome. Instead, it's like they've actually made an effort to cause as much offence as possible. If they'd said, "We're rebooting the series," it would have still been disappointing, but at least there wouldn't be the sense of them making a half-arsed attempt to pull the wool over our eyes.

If stitching it onto the bloodied stump of 'the story so far' was an absolute necessity, then there are so many scenes and bits of dialogue that could stand a rejigging to make the suturing less botched. Maybe some of the Decepticons themselves don't understand why Megs is focusing on Earth? What about if events had unfurled through the eyes of Starscream, sure this time that Megatron has lost his mind and that the mood of the troops is turning in his favour?

Failing that, it would have taken - what? - one working day to go over the first few issues and jam them full of fleeting references to what's come before, so at least there is some sense *within the comic* that the writers and editors are even aware of the previous storyline.

[Mr_Tigg]

hah hah first post!

Just thought I'd say hello to everyone. I decided to give up on the IDW forum for a bit until they can actually get their act together on the moderation side of things.

Currently enjoying the general fobbing off by Daniel and Denton

[sprunkner]

Welcome to the board where you can say f*ck to IDW.

Non of it would have had a material impact on the plot.

Well no. Mostly because the plot to-date can be summarised in about two lines. And that's if you're a wordy bastard like me.

Megatron blows stuff up.

The Autobots sit around and whine.

WAIT--IT CAN BE SHORTER! WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY!

Megs smash and Prowl whine.

CAN WE GET IT DOWN TO THREE?

Megs Autobots boom.

TWO?

Megs boom.

ONE?

Cliché.

[Best First]

Ouch.

Another one word option...



Welcome Mr Tigg

[arkonseal]

Interesting remarks on Denton's Q&A thread:

"AHM is part of something much larger. It's the first step in the new direction that we have been working closely with Hasbro to establish. And I'm really excited to help bring that vision to fruition."

Working closely with Hasbro, eh? Possible scenario:

"How's it going with the comics, guys?"
"Not bad. We're about to move onto ..."
"That's great. Really. Listen. Shuffle all that to one side. Let's talk about the vision."

It's possible that "vision" is true - Hasbro is looking at how best to retain or even recapture the fading attention of the older fanbase (as Denyer likes to point out, aging, maturity, etc are slowly drawing people away from their giant space robot hobby), and have decided to focus on the G1 diehards - maybe some research shows that they are the ones who are most likely to keep buying toys for years to come. For comics, this means a directive that characters and stories are very cartoon-reminiscent, the kind that thrill people by showing their toys walking and talking.

Slightly more charitably, it could be argued that the previous complicated sci-fi approach was meant to engage older fans by being more mature. Its poor sales were interpreted as meaning the majority of those fans aren't really interested in that.

Failing that, it would have taken - what? - one working day to go over the first few issues and jam them full of fleeting references to what's come before, so at least there is some sense *within the comic* that the writers and editors are even aware of the previous storyline.

I am never going to understand why something like that wasn't done as soon as they decided to call AHM in continuity. Maybe there's a good reason, but I sure can't see it.

[Best First]

Slightly more charitably, it could be argued that the previous complicated sci-fi approach was meant to engage older fans by being more mature. Its poor sales were interpreted as meaning the majority of those fans aren't really interested in that.

Mmm, but conversely maybe some people just aren't interested in comics with an eratic release schedule, long breaks and a story that its hard the path of unless you hang about on message boards on a fairly regular basis.

I mean looking back - Spotlight Nightbeat was pivital - but it sold a good chunk less than the core title - if it had all just been one long series i think we would have a very different outcome - or at least failed a lot more valiently.

[Jack Cade]

Chris Ryall has always asserted that it's a much harder market for ongoing titles, and while that may be true (though plenty of comics in double figure issues from the likes of Image and Dynamic seem to have sold as well as AHM) one images that that's because of the content, not the number on the front. If they were expecting the -ation series to perform as well as if they were standalone mini-series they obviously hadn't thought it through very carefully.

Playing 'if I had my way' and 'in hindsight' both at once, they should have made it absolutely clear around the end of Infiltration that the reader should, if they haven't already, pick up the whole of Spotlight Wave 1 to give them sufficient grounding for the next part of the saga. Those spotlights should, equally, have been clearly branded 'Wave 1: Tying into the ongoing series'. Both the main series *and* the spotlights should have been kitted with a header banner on a cover that marked them out at first glance as being different from Generations, Evolutions, Beast Wars and everything else. And every issue from Escalation #1 onwards should have started with a timeline showing what issues previous relevant events happened in.

If they'd done all that, they could do whatever the hell they like with the numbering.

[arkonseal]

Slightly more charitably, it could be argued that the previous complicated sci-fi approach was meant to engage older fans by being more mature. Its poor sales were interpreted as meaning the majority of those fans aren't really interested in that.

Mmm, but conversely maybe some people just aren't interested in comics with an eratic release schedule, long breaks and a story that its hard the path of unless you hang about on message boards on a fairly regular basis.

That's why I said "interpreted as". There's a lot of possible reasons for why the series didn't do well, but I've seen enough comments on various boards along the lines of "I don't like the changed characters/it's too grim/too complicated/not Dreamwave" to suggest that there's a good chunk of fans who just don't care for the realistic(ish) take on Transformers.

I guess the real test would be to go back in time and release the issues like clockwork, with clear numbers and reading guides in each one; and see how sales do.

[NeoSpringer]

Hi, yet another refugee from the IDW boards here (actually I've lurked on Transfans for years). Anyway, I just wanted to post to show some support for Jack Cade and have my own say on how I think IDW have gone down the tube.

I was astonished they'd banned Jack, and I really don't understand what's going on over there. The irony is most of those coming under the cosh from admin were the people who were shouting support for IDW from the rooftops before AHM began. I appreciate the need for a change if financially the previous storyline wasn't cutting it, but Ryall said that Furman's storyline was too complicated for people to follow, which pretty much says he was intent on dumbing it down so the dimwits could follow it (and by that I don't mean that everybody who enjoys it is a dimwit, before any pro-AHM-ers have a go at me). But surely Furman's story wasn't that complex? What was complex was figuring out which spotlight and which series went where - if you're not a member of the online fandom who keep track of these things, it must have been impossible to follow. But we've gone round and round on that argument before.

I can accept that AHM has a place if some people are enjoying it, but there seems to be this undercurrent coming from Ryall, Denton etc that they don't have much confidence in Furman's previous story. After spending probably a few hundred pounds over the last few years buying into that story, that feels like a slap in the face for readers that were enjoying it.

I appreciate that Ryall and Denton are going to be irritated by all the flak coming there way, even sympathise with them to an extent, especially if some of this new direction has come down from Hasbro, who I guess have the ultimate say, but banning people who don't agree with them is a step too far, and I won't be posting on there again until they accept the right for people to fairly criticise, (and let's not forget those of us who do criticise AHM would much rather be supporting it, were it any good – Transformers are my hobby and I always feel guilty when I'm posting a negative message) and they sort out the moderating. Just some acknowledgement of our concerns would be a start. After Maximum Dinobots I'm seriously debating whether or not to continue getting the comics; only a continuation of Furman's storyline, or something truly breathtaking, is going to make me stick with them. It's like a masterclass in how to alienate loyal supporters.

After all the good work IDW did in the first few years, it just seems such a shame.

[snarl]

Yes, it is a shame.

I hardly ever really posted about TFs until this ******* new series AHM came out, what I mean is that its a shame that it took the title becoming **** to make me post, like, it being **** drew a BIG reaction from me.

Maybe if I and others had been more vocal in our support they'd have kept the ation series going, instead of changing to AHM.

btw, I tend to see AHM now and instantly think of the letters standing for AIDS has Megatron, being said in a little yoda voice.

[Denyer]

Furman's story wasn't that complex? What was complex was figuring out which spotlight and which series went where - if you're not a member of the online fandom who keep track of these things, it must have been impossible to follow.

A situation that continues with two series which're in theory in the same continuity running alongside each other, plus myriad other Transformers-branded comics and multiple covers.

there seems to be this undercurrent coming from Ryall, Denton etc that they don't have much confidence in Furman's previous story

It would have benefited from editing, especially for pace and focus concerns, as would Megatron: Origin and now AHM.

I remember getting out of DW singles when WW:AoW came out, which turned out to be mildly prophetic. Whilst I don't think IDW is in anything like the same position, the handling of Revelation suggests it's not a safe bet buying stuff which isn't a self-contained story or already complete.

[Brendocon]

btw, I tend to see AHM now and instantly think of the letters standing for AIDS has Megatron, being said in a little yoda voice.

Motha [composite word including 'f*ck']. Now I do too.

[stranger]

Yes, it is a shame.

I hardly ever really posted about TFs until this ******* new series AHM came out, what I mean is that its a shame that it took the title becoming **** to make me post, like, it being **** drew a BIG reaction from me.

Maybe if I and others had been more vocal in our support they'd have kept the ation series going, instead of changing to AHM.

I dunno - the fact you're spending your money on it should be support enough. As it turns out - not enough of us were doing this hence all this **** they've stirred up.

I also only started posting when things started to rile me. Nothing makes the spirit soar quite like a good rant though eh?

[Jack Cade]

Anyway, I just wanted to post to show some support for Jack Cade and have my own say on how I think IDW have gone down the tube.

Hey, thanks for the support! Unfortunately, 'it never ends'. DJT is telling porkies now to cover up his mistake. I'm not going to go on another rant but let's just say this is the first time I've seen anything like the phrases 'cooling off period' and 'talk things over'.

I dunno - the fact you're spending your money on it should be support enough. As it turns out - not enough of us were doing this hence all this **** they've stirred up.

My money is still on it being a personal/Hasbro decision rather than a financial one, otherwise I doubt DJT would be enthusiastically talking about three year plans, given AHM's current performance.

[sprunkner]

I applaud whoever changed the thread name.

Good to you, sir.

[Scraplet]

They're still bringing out that reliable standby, "people only prefer Maximum Dinobots to All Hail Megatron because of the writer's name".

Nope, its because its not sh!t, and we may finally get a few answers about the continuity we were all enjoying before they threw it away without any explaination.

I can't wait for the next Max Dinos, but I'm considering not renewing my subscription for issues 7-12 of AHM, because, well, I don't care what happens.

I hung around for M:O hoping that would get better too, and it turns out a) it didn't, and, b) it wouldn't matter to the continuity and you miss nothing. Then they tell you its not canon, anyhow. Lesson learned methinks.

I'm only buying them cos Tf comics make me feel good. So, when the comics don't do that, I'm afraid i won't just buy them out of loyalty. I can spend the money on some nice glossy reprints of old comics, enjoy them and not damage my precious old originals. Money better spent.

If AHM gets better, someone let me know and I might buy the trade, but thats it, I'm done for now.

[Best First]

Slightly more charitably, it could be argued that the previous complicated sci-fi approach was meant to engage older fans by being more mature. Its poor sales were interpreted as meaning the majority of those fans aren't really interested in that.

Mmm, but conversely maybe some people just aren't interested in comics with an eratic release schedule, long breaks and a story that its hard the path of unless you hang about on message boards on a fairly regular basis.

That's why I said "interpreted as".

Yes, that's why i said "conversely maybe"

If anything i share your concern - for me TFs is a great concept with a lot of scope for amazing stories - yes there will always be the boyish element of Big Robots Fighting (which is fine with me) - but its a universe that has the real potential to grow up with its fans (while lines aimed at younger audiences can still flourish in parallel) and be home to some genuinely compelling, mature and complex stories (with some Big Robot Fighting in it) that play with the concepts from our youth in interesting ways.

But if either a) Hasbro or b) most of the fans just want constant rehashing of what has gone before then yes, maybe there is not market for that outside of fan fiction.

As for topic title - guilty. snicker snicker

Oh, and welcome all.

[NeoSpringer]

My money is still on it being a personal/Hasbro decision rather than a financial one, otherwise I doubt DJT would be enthusiastically talking about three year plans, given AHM's current performance.

To me it is increasingly looking like it was motivated by Hasbro, or that they've at least taken advantage of the situation to imprint their own wishes on the comic, hence the new designs made to look like the toys. Has there been an in-story explanation of why the seekers are suddenly back to being F-15s yet? I thought we were past the days of using the comic to sell toys, but maybe not.

A three-year plan would normally get me excited – having a solid direction is usually a good thing, but three more years of AHM-type storytelling would be a nightmare for me. That said, based on what's gone on recently, who's to say they're going to stick with this three-year plan to its end anyway?

[Best First]

I think the other possible reason is that IDW were concerned that TFs had become too "unrecognisable" and so wanted to use more 'classic' or accesable (i.e current toys) imagery to tap into the more casual fanbase.

I don't think its good reasoning or shows much respect for the audiences intellect but that's my other theory.