Megatron Origin #3 (Spoilers)

Post by **Best First** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:38 am

Metal Vendetta wrote:Holmes has popped up to address people's questions about this over at IDW:
http://idwpublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtop ... &start=135

I do respect a man that will post in a thread about his comic that has garnered such criticism.

i agree, although i think his 'a few don't like it most do' is a slightly rose tinted view and i think he misses the point on a few things.

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:29 pm

Best First wrote:Far worse than sixshot.

Really? Haven't considered putting the Megatron mini on a dartboard...

On the other hand, this mini is more irritating since it had potential.

Did anyone read the Movie adaptation? Was Milne's visual storytelling clearer there?

Hot Shot wrote:it's already been done in War Within, and nearly all of those ideas were handled and handled better.

Optimus Prime as a rip-off of the Rodimus "given the matrix and suddenly becomes all powerful-like" I'm thoroughly not keen on. Likewise the guff that went on for a couple of issues flashing forwards to random cartoon moments. Despite the lack of overall plot, I preferred Dark Ages to War Within.

Best First wrote:i agree, although i think his 'a few don't like it most do' is a slightly rose tinted view and i think he misses the point on a few things.

Yeah, I'm going to go find threads for the currently released issues on other boards when I get a spare hour. On the balance of the feedback I've seen so far, I doubt many reactions elsewhere have been unqualified positivity.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:08 pm

Denyer wrote:
Did anyone read the Movie adaptation? Was Milne's visual storytelling clearer there?

Not as dark, but still a struggle for me.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:59 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:
Denyer wrote:
Did anyone read the Movie adaptation? Was Milne's visual storytelling clearer there?

Not as dark, but still a struggle for me.

Very chop'n'shop in terms of what plot was put in, though.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:42 pm

I'm sorry but I already know how the #4 will end... not because I have broken into Holmes' apartment but because his plot is visible from miles away...

So SPOILERS if I could be bothered to type...

- Starscream obviously betrays Megs because Megs told him so... He even questions Megs why is he doing what he was told. I bet he'll be taken to the council, then kill the senate (another idea shamelessly stolen from DW).

-Soundwave betrays Ratbat and frees Megs and the gang, because ya see, he is released and on his way he pops Rumble and Frenzy out of his chest, as the stupid Autobots didn't check those... Megs troops get weapons since they are on the Autobot HQ and massacre ensues. I bet my whiskers Megs will go to Sentinel's firing range and get his fusion cannon from there...

-Yeah Decimus will die a slow painful death, no surprises here. For a character who should be so pivotal, it was never explained why he's such an ass. And what the *** is "House of Decimus": Since when do TFs have families?!? This is not SW or a Dark elf novel...

- Megs kills Sentinel, and embark on his destiny... whatever that is.

I'm really unhappy with this series. Megs is just... there. if Decimus wouldn't have shut down the mine, Megs would be still there... minining? What about destiny? Megs is pretty intelligent too, I always pictured he had a military carrier gone wrong somewhere... does Holmes want to imply that he was a simpe miner? Gah. And Megs is really a psychopath, in truth he should be that cold and deadly villain he is in IDW elsewhere. Remember when he gazes down on Verity in Infiltration like one would stare at a bug? He was terrifying there... here he is as someone over IDW boards said, a "homicidal Hulk Hogan" at best, a psychotic clown at worst... and unlike Uncle J., Megs isn't really a funny guy...

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:23 pm

He has had hundreds of thousands / millions of years to become the calm, cold character he's seen as elsewhere... the raging nutter bit actually ties in with the dialogue Furman chucked into Escalation.

But nah, can't see this series getting any satisfactory resolution in #4.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:41 am

Denyer wrote: But nah, can't see this series getting any satisfactory resolution in #4.

How can it when it's at least an eight to twelve issue story?

How can it when many people can't figure out what the heck they're seeing?

Post by **Best First** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:08 am

Denyer wrote:
Best First wrote:Far worse than sixshot.
Really? Haven't considered putting the Megatron mini on a dartboard...

On the other hand, this mini is more irritating since it had potential.

i think my biggest issue, and what really reminds me of DW, is that its just a bad comic - its not accessable if you don't have a lot of background, the story telling doesn't work, there's editorial glitches galore in terms of how it sits in terms of the rest of IDWs output (both in terms of quality and plot) and what little charachterisation there is is clumsy and heavy handed; "Hello, I'm Sentinel Prime and i'm a dick".

Sixshot was pretty dull and the art uninspired, but i don't think it was as amatuerish as this. A point that i think is probably embellished by the over abundance of fanwank moments in the Origin series.

But yes, this had a bigger job to do and that plays a part.

Did anyone read the Movie adaptation? Was Milne's visual storytelling clearer there?

not really - the movie adaption was a let down all round IMO.

Hot Shot wrote:it's already been done in War Within, and nearly all of those ideas were handled and handled better.
Optimus Prime as a rip-off of the Rodimus "given the matrix and suddenly becomes all powerful-like" I'm thoroughly not keen on. Likewise the guff that went on for a couple of issues flashing forwards to random cartoon moments. Despite the lack of overall plot, I preferred Dark Ages to War Within.

Don't like the WW Prime origin either, but i agree with HS that a lot of the other aspects of the start of the war have already been done better in that series, or at worst in a very similar fashion, meaning there is little new here.

Best First wrote:i agree, although i think his 'a few don't like it most do' is a slightly rose tinted view and i think he misses the point on a few things.
Yeah, I'm going to go find threads for the currently released issues on other boards when I get a spare hour. On the balance of the feedback I've seen so far, I doubt many reactions elsewhere have been unqualified positivity.

Yeah, the IDW site is sometimes a bit too effusive for my tastes. From what i have seen elsewhere reactions run along fairly similar splits to the DW G1 stuff, although a few more people seem dissapointed now that the core IDW series has rasied the bar.

As for how many issues this should have been - sorry i don't really buy it. If you have a longer story and you have to edit it down, that doesn't justify things jumping around or not making sense, that means you have done a bad job editing the series down.

Some of the stuff being revealede in the thread, while in some cases nice ideas, is a bit reminiscent of plot details for Micromasters being revealed in the letters pages.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:30 am

I don't buy the 6/8 issue arc defence. What I've read (or been able to make out), each issue has about a page's worth of plot spread out thinly and buried under mass amounts of fanwank.

That doesn't reconcile with compression as far as I can tell. That reconciles best with "I have no idea how to structure a story".

The Sixshot spotlight was dull, but I could tell what was going on, it was a one-off (which meant the pain was over quickly) and I knew it would probably all be relevent later (and hopefully handled better).

This... this is dragging on in painful fashion across several issues of not a lot happening, is an important notion that's badly executed and probably won't have any bearing on anything ever, as it sits so out of place with everything around it.

Ultimately, I could handle Sixshot being a ropey concept handled in a ropey fashion because it was over quickly and I could say "oh, well... what's next?" and just carry over the basic plot. Origins is a massive waste of my time and money that just makes me angry and serves no purpose... and I'm not even sure what the plot is... or if there is one, for that matter.

I still remember getting about three pages into Besters' copy of Micromasters #1 and saying "[composite word including 'f*ck'] this ****." I wish I'd done similar here.

Post by **Best First** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:06 pm

Yeah, i am essentially buying this out of morbid curiosity now.

Be interested to see the sales figures.

Oh, went back and had a look at the movie adaption and actually, in fairness, Milne's story telling is better - not great comic bookery by my standards, but you can mostly tell what is going on at first glance.

Post by **Denyer** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:07 pm

Yaya wrote:How can it when it's at least an eight to twelve issue story?

State Games is eight pages, two-and-a-half of which are illustrations. It's more coherent and puts across more about how the war started.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:10 pm

Denyer wrote:
Yaya wrote:How can it when it's at least an eight to twelve issue story?
State Games is eight pages, two-and-a-half of which are illustrations. It's more coherent and puts across more about how the war started.

Comics will never compare to books in terms of opening up our imaginations. Comics limit our imagination somewhat to what is visually present, so I don't think it's fair to compare State Games to War Within or Megs:Origin. It's one thing to state an idea in text format, it's another to give us a visual rendition of it.

Just read Holmes interview before the series came out. It had me salivating, and if he wrote the series out in text, we probably would have loved the ideas he had that he failed to convey.

The way I saw this series, it was supposed to give us an in depth view of how Megatron came to be, his internal motivations, doubts, etc.

I mean, you have to admit, there is loads of potential present during this time period, and though some disagree above, I think you could easily get a nice 8 to 12-issue story out of it, if not an ongoing even.

I have to agree though, there certainly has been a lull in getting my TF fix. Most of IDW has been good, but only a few moments I could say were great. Namely, the Shockwave and Kup Spotlight, and the first three issues of Stormbringer. But I guess that's true with for every company. From DW, the only real moments of greatness for me was War and Peace, the MTMTE profiles, and the ongoing. Hmmm...think I'm going to start a thread about what everybodys favorite moments were in TF comic lore.

Post by **Best First** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:43 pm

you could easily do a nice 1 issue story as well, or a nice 20 issue story.

sorry, but saying this story is somehow defineable as x issues long is meaningless.

Then again... War and Peace... ha ha ha.

Post by **Denyer** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:42 am

Yaya wrote:Just read Holmes interview before the series came out. It had me salivating, and if he wrote the series out in text, we probably would have loved the ideas he had that he failed to convey.

Do you reckon we could cadge a copy of the script from him?

Yaya wrote:Comics will never compare to books in terms of opening up our imaginations.

When comics get things right, they do things prose can't, and vice versa. Particularly timing effects (a panel can span seconds or centuries) and letting the reader fill in (the old example being a black panel with a scream over it; the writer may suggest a murder -- or whatever else -- but it's the reader who thinks it out.)

State Games would fit into a regular 24 page comic quite easily, I think. Use some internal monologuing during the first fight, the frailty of the Overlord comes across in dialogue, and then you've got character-defining moments when Megatron refuses his aid and Ravage chooses an allegiance. For the latter portion of the story use a flashback by a third party (eg, Prime) which reveals the events of the last 20ish pages to have been him telling the story.

Then for the next issue, give the events (and more, such as the founding of the Decepticon movement) from Megatron's perspective.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:26 pm

Denyer wrote:
Yaya wrote:Just read Holmes interview before the series came out. It had me salivating, and if he wrote the series out in text, we probably would have loved the ideas he had that he failed to convey.
Do you reckon we could cadge a copy of the script from him?

I would almost say its a matter of time, the way the poor guy is defending himself on the IDW boards. I think inside, he's appalled at the way Alex butchered his work, but I don't think he can say it. Must be frustrating. (Not that everything is Alex's fault, I think the writing itself is equally to blame)